Igrip:

Why is she writting enverything down, and making lists of all your perceieved "wrongs"?

To justify her affair.

"See how BAD HE WAS!" So I went a slept with another man!

Make a list of all the good things that she has done.

And then make a list of all the bad things she has done.

And it only requires one entry. "Slept with another man"

Pretty unequal comparision there, isn't it?

And then ask yourself if all these socalled "good things" are enough to out weigh this truly horrible BAD THING.

That will open her eyes if she sees that from you.

She is doing her lists, and you can make them too.

LG

Don't worry, I'm being cool...on the outside, but today, she was a different person again. Basically, not a word said all day. She didn't sleep well last night. Visibly depressed all afternoon. I'm having fun with daughter, she goes off to be alone. Crying a few times. I ask if I can do anything, she just nods no.

At one point, I was having a cute moment with our daughter during dinner...and wife rolls her eyes. I ask her 'why she reacted' and she answers 'what are your plans at the end of the 60 days?' to which I responded that 'I have no plans as I have told her before.'

Is this withdrawal symptoms at its best (or worst...whichever it is called)? Is she 'regretting' spending any time this week together....this is a way of her brain 'pulling back out' anything she may have given into this entire week?

I am continuing living like I should be...a good dad, a good husband and pleasant to be around. This behavior from her is just weird..it doesn't get any easier does it? Hmmmmm..

igrip think golfer is advising you wrong. Just be what you can be and what you are trying to be and don't get into the s**t about the why and how.

okay my situation different. i posted on here a little ago what a demon fathers day it is for me. I cannot be here anymore it is too painful but unlike you I am older. Igrip just do not explain to her take my word for it and just keep changing for your best. You do not owe her explanation. you owe that to you only.

you can make it. went to confession yesterday that is esp improratnt to me now. if you knew what i've now done you would castigate me but whatever so has everyone else.

bye but keep doing what you are and no explanations but to you and your god. TOm

My advise you to Igrp, is to look at the people who are advising you and see who has a recovered/recovering marriage, someone who has worked the plans, or someone who has helped A LOT of other marriages recover. Have faith in DrH and his concepts. Go along with the advice that supports that.

How was the weekend? Anything new?

Nothing too new to report from the weekend. Her sister and mother made her 'feel guilty' for going to a baby shower. She 'vented' to me about it which is good because she trusts me enough to vent to now (she actually said that her mom made her feel 'like I used to to make her feel' which tells me she sees my changes.

Fathers Day came and went..she was waffling whether or not to join us at my parents for dinner...she didn't want to go and I told her she didn't need to do anything that she didn't want to. She ended up going 'for our daughter' to keep an eye. Reluctantly, but she went (on her own decision though).

Yesterday, I brought up some conversation and I am 'understanding' her as she speaks to me. On my counselor's advice, she really wants to be understood (she is writing everything down remember) and who better than to make her feel understood than me. I like taking that role.

She said a few 'key' phrases yesterday....one particular one when she brought up the 60 day thing again, I told her I had no plans and she said 'I really don't know what is going to happen either.' Very big phrase in my opinion.

I am learning lots about her in the past two months which is good because she is 'sharing' and before, I must have not been a safe ear to share with.

She made an individual counselor appointment for herself which is scary, but perhaps good. And another appointment for us next week. Did not ask her reasons for the appointments...but talking about feelings is always good.

Will see what goes on....she is a bit more relaxed in the past two days in general...not back to normal by any means, but at least a bit more calm. Will see if it keeps up.

Thanks all as usual...pep talk or advice always welcome and desired I am feeling good today...had a tough weekend internally, but am over that for now. Breathe breathe breathe.

Love bank deposits put in nicely yesterday.

She texted and asked if I wanted to meet at store after she got off work..with daughter of course. I told her we would meet there. She was working late, so I brought her lunch. She called when she was on her way and told me she was starving...I told her I already had lunch for her.

I knew she was wearing heels, so before she got there, went to store and bought her a pair of new sandals and a comfortable pair of shoes and had them out when she arrived. She was pleasantly surprised both that I did that and for the style of shoe I picked..normally would not have, but now, I liked them as did she.

Inside store, she later said that this did not seem like me or something of the sort...I told her that one day she would believe my behavior as true. We shopped, had dinner out and then I left her to go home as I went into work. She called as soon as we left to thank me for the shoes.

That night, she asked me about my day at work (first time she has done that in 2 months). That is basically all. I feel good inside as I am being the man I need to be. She does seem 'less tense' this week..not sure what that means. 6 weeks since last contact with OM. Not having any relationship talk at all. She is talking a bit this week which is better than the alternative.

I still worry about her individual counselor appointment on Friday...not sure if she is trying to justify her leaving me or just getting help. Regardless, she is going so nothing I can do. I'll just hope and pray that it is a good session for US.

hi there,
I'm glad you are hopeful, take it slow and let her weigh it all out and get it straight in her head....it will take some time to trust your new behavior......
Keep up with the new you and make sure you say everything you feel now.....make sure she gets that you mean what you say with your actions....
I was in the same boat as you and my husband came around as well, we are now working on things and both making an effort in the marriage,
we also did a lot of things wrong and that weren't helpful in the marriage...we both acknowledge that and are correcting our behavior......
I think it takes a bit of time with not a lot of expectation at first.....takes time to change patterns....
I can almost feel a smile on your face with your words......I hope you feel better about things.

Thanks Jess

I did feel better...until tonight.

She brought up talk about 'amicable divorce' and the like. I told her my true feelings about how I felt about our daughter, how it hurt to think that either of us would be missing anything from her daily life, etc. All true. How realistically, both of our standards of living would decline, how we lived fine together, but separate, all is different. I wanted her to understand the realities of it.

Then she understood. She said 'so I am going to have to get a full time job then' and I didn't say anything. 'Since I have a flexible schedule with my work, I have it easy'. Blah blah blah.

Now, she is in 'attack' mode. She is re-thinking. Basically, her idea of an easy divorce and blissful life after divorce just got shattered. I'm not doing anything love-buster like, but here is what I am faced with now.

Did I do anything wrong? I was nice, calm, truthful all along this conversation. All is 'according to plan' here, but I still feel really weird. Help me with my emotions here.

I don't see anything wrong with what you did. You let her know what divorcing you would mean for her. Injecting a dose of reality. It isn't going to be an AHA moment for her though and as long as you did it with no expectations, then all is good.

When she brings up "amicable divorce" just say there will be no such thing and you will resent her forever for breaking up your family and other than child exchanges, she will be dead to you if she goes through with this. You will not be "friends" with someone that destroyed your family and wouldn't even try to work on it. You state it matter of factly and then drop it.

Igrip,

I think you handled the divorce talk just about perfectly.

It's part of the wayward fog, the fantasy divorce. They think it can be quick and easy, where they get the children, house, and money, while you still remain "friends" and are at their beckon call for chores or babysitting that needs to be done. All this while living the dream life with OM.

They especially want the "friends" part so they can justify that the affair didn't end up hurting you too much. They will use the kids to push this issue, "It's in the best interest of the kids if we can work together and get along." That is true to a point, but I see it like working together on a project at work with someone you despise. I'm a professional and can get the job done, but we don't have to be chummy-chummy about it.

You did just right by crushing her idea of a "fantasy divorce".

So, tonight, she tells me 'she is sorry for the timing of the OM. The timing was bad and she is sorry.' I told her thank you, that meant a lot to me. She then added, 'I know it is a moot point, but I really care for him lots.' I told her that she was right, it was a moot point, especially because I cared for her immensely.

I just don't know what to make of her statement in my head. Yes, this is the first 'real' apology I have gotten. However, her feelings for him are there..still...naturally. I did not expect them to go away, but they are still obviously strong. Part of the process? Withdrawal still in effect? Normal? Thanks....just need to help with my 'even keel' of emotions..I've been doing pretty well this week overall. Thanks for any more tips.

Does she care for him enough that she is willing to NEVER AGAIN be able to kiss her daughter good night every night?

NEVER AGAIN.

So how does withdrawal make one 'not' want something anymore? If she is not speaking to him, she 'wants' to really bad. How does that 'go' away in time? Or is it the realities of a tough divorce help them 'see' what they are missing...then they make their choice?

It's not really that she is not going to "want" OM anymore, it is more that the further away from contact that she gets, the less addicted she will feel to him and the A. That it why it is important to try to get WW to agree to and stick to NC. If contact happens(even indirectly) she will be put back to day 1 of withdrawal. Then she will be more prone to "want" to speak to him more(like she is now).

Sometimes, the WS doesn't "get it" about D and will still want their "drug." There have even been WS and BS that HAVE D'd and gotten back together after. That's why it is important to work on YOU and NOT focus on your WS. Also, in case you DON'T get a chance to recover your M, YOU can move on to a happier and healthier relationship.

igrip
"So how does withdrawal make one 'not' want something anymore? If she is not speaking to him, she 'wants' to really bad. How does that 'go' away in time?"

WW is addicted to the OM. As with any addiction you crave whatever it is that gives you your high.

Her body and mind are addicted to the high WW got form the feelings her affair gave her. Only time and absence from the source of addiction will the WW go through withdrawal.

Withdrawal is how the person DT's, detoxic, loses the cravings to feed her addiction.

Your WW is acting normal.

However this is why former addicts can never be around their source of addiction. Whether drugs alcohol or OM. Because dollars to dounts a relaspe will happen.

You did nothing wrong.

Nice & calm & truthful is never a love buster.

Feeling weird is OK. Acting weird is not.

YOU "DONE GOOD" kid!

We had a THREE hour counseling session yesterday. Feels good to talk in a safe place.

I have come a long way. She, perhaps unconsciously has. Who knows. Time time time is all we have right now.

Last time we went to counseling, the counselor asked if there was any part of her that wanted this marriage to work and she said no. This time, instead of saying no, she said 'she was empty inside' which to me sounds like the love bank WAS depleted and in the negative, and perhaps, just perhaps, it is getting filled again? Wishful thinking perhaps, but all i have is hope.

Talking is good overall and that was lots of time together. I have come such a long way in this.

Here is the question of the day. What is the difference between being in a good Plan A (being the husband anyone would want to come home to, being understanding, caring, supportive, inviting) and being a doormat?

Is it a fine line? I need examples. Someone posted a while back that 'the wimpy ex-boyfriend' never gets the girlfriend back. So, what is the difference? Examples are great...you guys all know what I do and say daily based on my posts...so this forum is the best judge for me. Thank you.