I was just getting on to post this to you. I was thinking the same thing when I studied yesterday. The point was brought out that "weaker vessel" is not meant to mean WEAK but maybe more like a piece of fine china, that you protect from damaging.

I am dreading next week's lesson too.....I am just too raw to study on how to be a good Christian wife.

But yes, I was never treated like a piece of china that is for sure. I was thinking today that his cruelty to me is unbelievable really. My cousin, when he was 37 and she was 19, lying about it for 7 years....I had the RIGHT to divorce him when that happened---7 mores years of my life gone in a lie...and then the affair with the 24 year old...and then starting it BACK up with my cousin who is now married and a mother. And the porn. And how cruel he was to me in word and deed on a daily basis. I guess I worry that they will be happy....but statistics say they won't be. It bugs me to think he would be happy with her while I'm alone BECAUSE of him and her.

Ugh. This just goes round and round in my head. I dont want him, but I am feeling so angry! I should just be happy to be rid of him. I really believe I WOULD be if I didn't have to see him and her and have my son exposed to them both.

I can tell from the way you describe your WH that he is messed up and I know exactly what kind of a mess he is because I have a WH too who is a multiple adulterer and has treated me with the worst possible cruelty, undeserved by me.
So my dear, do not worry, because a person that messed up is not capable of being happy, he can only attract pain...in due time it will manifest.
If I am not mistaken he already told you that things did not turn out the way he hoped. He is already in conflict with reality and thus unhappy.
How long do you think it will last with a 25 year old and him being this stupid? Remember, those OW are wh@res, as soon as the bed excitement stars to wear thin they do not have much more to offer and WH will realize the moster and the trash he is with.
It will take time..maybe not even that much time.

blessing

Thank you. This is very helpful.

I kept this from happening back in June when they went to FL. A week or so ago he asked if he could take him to a waterpark about 4 hours away. I asked him if OW would be there...he said, 'what difference does it make. No one is staying with us.' Well, I basically just didn't say yes...and he dropped it.

Just now I get a text that says, 'I am planning on taking ds10 to waterpark wednesday night. We will be up there until Saturday. Do you want me to bring him back Saturday night or can I have him through Sunday?'

I texted back 'Will OW be there?'

No reply yet. What should I do? Should I try to stop this? Should I just let it go? Admit defeat that he is going to have OW in my son's life?

OW will be in your son's life as long as she is part of your ex's life.

Take a deep breath...

Caring about this stuff is normal. You are still mourning the death of all the dreams that you had with this man. You were married to this man for a long time. Your divorce has not been final long. Everything takes time. It does get better. You do need less contact with him though. Keep your conversations strictly related to your son. Stop rehashing the past. Leave the past where it belongs. The nice chit-chat and fighting over the OW feeds his ego and will set you back in your personal recovery. My divorce was final 11/09. Less contact for you is best. Check out this from Dr. Harley's Q&A regarding divorced couples that can't seem to let go:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5035b_qa.html

STillstanding,

I enjoyed reading that link...it was very helpful for me too. I'm trying to look at it as a death.

I will read the link....haven't yet. It isn't that I can't let go of WXH. I don't want my son around him with his adultery partner....especially on vacations. I responded via text that since she is going the answer is no. He said his lawyer said he could take him and it wasn't considered 'overnight with opposite sex' since they are getting seperate rooms. I said 'she (attorney) doesn't make the rules. The answer is no.' He said, 'she knows the law and we are prepared to file a court order.' I said, 'the answer is no,' After that no further text. Talked to my X-neighbor a few minutes later and OW was there at XH's house while he was texting me that. Sooo....I am sure when she got to his house she started pushing to finalize their plans....they want to leave Wednesday after work and need to get rooms. (XH mentioned that when he got the confirmation to the room he would tell me where it is so that tells me they don't have rooms yet) His language went from a week ago asking if he could take ds to today 'telling' me he was taking him. I am sure OW is telling him what to do....XH has NEVER 'told' me what he would do with ds. Never. He isn't that kind of involved decisive father.

Anyway, I was very in control today and tonight though. I got to do a 'do over' of last night and be controlled. XH was suppose to bring ds home at 8. I was on my way home to be there when neighbor (x neighbor) calls me and says, 'are you coming to get your ds from XH?' I said, 'no he brings him to me.' She said, 'why dont you come get him and have a beer and get in the pool.' Apparently they had asked if ds could come swimming and XH said no....OW's 5 year old was there and so XH wanted ds to stay and entertain him. Neighbor was annoyed....so anyway, I called XH and said, 'hey I am in town I will stop and pick up ds.' He sounds nervous and says, 'ok. Um, OW and her ds are here.' I said, 'I'll park in neighbor's driveway...just send ds over there. And thanks for the warning.' He said, 'you're welcome.' Well, I get there and guess what? OW is NOT in the driveway this time. Neither is her son. Hee Hee....So I enjoy my son, my friends, the pool, the beer, the fireworks...we sit in the front driveway and watch the kids in the street...before it is even dark OW comes out---XH walks her to her car and she leaves. Has to drive RIGHT past all of us hanging out together. Then it got dark..but twice we saw XH come out the front door and wander around the drive way....I asked my friend (the husband) 'what is he doing?' He says, 'Big house to roam around in all alone.'

LOL....I felt so good that I was so much more in control.

Oh, and I know I might---well probably will----lose if he does file a court order...but I am not going to roll over and make it easy. I asked ds tonight if his dad had mentioned the water park and he said yes. I said, 'unfortunately you can't go because he insist on taking OW.' Ds said his dad had not mentioned that OW was going. I was matter of fact and VERY brief tonight...didn't go on and on like I did last night with ds.

I feel much better. Talked to OW's BXH today for the first time in months....he helped me to see that what I am doing is causing MAJOR conflict for them...and that they are not happy and will not last. She had reached out to him in a similar fashion to what WXH did to me last week.

I know some of you will think I should just let it go. But even if I lose in court, I will know I did what I could to keep ds away from OW for as long as possible. And who knows it might be long enough so that they break up...

Spent probably half an hour talking with my neighbor...the husband....his 12 year old dd was in my lap and much of our discussion was with her....It was awesome to hear a man...a REAL man....discuss temptations....life decisions...telling his dd that what my XH did has affected soooooo many people...not just the two families destroyed...but even THEM, the innocent neighbors....

He talked to her a lot about avoiding men like my XH....and at one point when she left he told me he was going to have a talk with her soon when she is old enough about sex and how he wants her to know from HIS point of view..a MAN's POV...that he wishes he had come to his marriage with her mother as a virgin....it was really awesome....I told him that my XH had told me once sneeringly....that husband neighbor is no different than him (WXH).....Wow. Neighbor and his wife were shocked and disgusted by that. Husband neighbor told me...'he wants me to be in his boat huh?' Neighbor husband is NOT. Human yes. Has even shared with me (in front of his wife) the weakest points of his life and how he came to his wife and said, 'I'm about to have an affair, help me stop it.'


They told me tonight several things....1)they were annoyed that XWH had come over yesterday fishing for an invite with his OW to their cook out...2)their ds10 had gone over to XH's house without permission (which was fine when *I* lived there) and they had a talk with him about it....3)they intend to be polite but have ZERO interest in renewing a relationship with him.

WXH is the type that has to have someone look him in the eyes and say, 'I don't want to be around you AT ALL because of what you have done.' before he gets it. Otherwise he just thinks everyone is fine with what he has done.

Another neighbor was going for a walk when I was there and I got to say hi/bye to her...she hugged me...said it made her ill that ds and I were 'gone.'....she tried to be diplomatic....but it is clear to me that NO ONE is impressed with what XH has done.

Smiling woman, been reading your link.

First hugs to you. It is a battle and trying to decide what will be best for you. Keep your boundaries.

That 25 OW is just enjoying the "game". This was our live and to them it is what the WS will do for them to prove their "love".

They are pushing this vacation because they want to "stir the pot", not do what is best for DS. I am sure a court will say XH has rights but will it be in time for vacation...no.

Because of all the triggers, avoid the neighbors for awhile or invite them over to your place.

I work with both XH and OW. I have told my boss that I need to avoid all meetings with XH unless it is absolutely necessary. He has wrecked his career and is the shadow of the man he was.


Take one day at a time and just wait for the train wreck.

I like Schoolbus suggestions but don't bait the OW. She still wants the drama of the R. Don't give it to her.

SW, you are precious, and worth protecting! What do you think about getting an intermediary, so you can remove yourself from this? The intermediary could remind your son's dad that these trips are not okay, and you wouldn't have to hear about it.

I understand your pain and your anger. I understand your resentment toward your husband and the POSOW. I wanted the OW dead. I wanted my ex to understand what he threw away when he abandoned our marriage. I had to talk about it constantly until I was ready to move on. It was all I really thought about until I grew tired of wallowing in the festering misery that is adultery and divorce.

When you grow tired of this, you will be ready to move on and finish healing.

You can't keep OW out of your son's life anymore than you could keep your husband faithful. You can put up roadblocks. They will go around them. You can make it difficult. This will drive your ex and OW together against you. Once you stop caring and being such an active player in this mess, you will allow nature to take its course. You are uniting them in a common cause. Once you lay down your sword against them, they will have to find something else to focus on - like real life.

When you are ready to move on, you will. It takes time and separation from your ex.

It is your choice.

When I was a teenager I got hooked on Harlequin Romance novels and just about any other brand of romance novel too. I got hooked on the "drama" of it all. Something happened between age 21 and 22 for me that made drama totally repulsive.

My hunch is this gal is still hooked on the trashy romance novel. Next time, think of the romance novel cover - size your husband "down" and chortle, if you must respond at all. He just doesn't measure up in the light of day and isn't worth a cell of brain space for you now. You know a little of what she's looking at with life with him. If he wouldn't be faithful and decent to you, there's no way he's going to for her. They get worse with an affair, not better. I have a hunch that this is the root of your fear, that somehow, he'll turn back into the man who won your heart - for them. I promise you he won't and can't. So do what you can to let that fear go.

So if you look at her at all, give her that pitying glance that you'd give a homeless woman with tracks on her arms and few cut lines barely revealed by her bangles because you know that's the level of woman she is, regardless of the shell she has been lucky enough to have been born with.

SW,

You said you were worried he would be "happy".

This really made me think.

What you want is some sort of retribution, or revenge.

A life well-lived is the best revenge, SW.



What you described, with his having his OW out front to bait you, his going over to the neighbor's house to weasel an invitation to a barbeque, and then his wandering aimlessly out front while you and the neighbors are out front chatting???

Think about that!

He is acting like a little kid who hasn't been picked to play in the game, and so he hangs around the playground trying to draw attention to himself!

He has texted you...talking about "times gone by"....trying to raise your ire....trying to bait you....trying to get invited to parties where YOU are....


What do you think he is doing????


He is trying to cheat with you - behind OW's back - while she is right there.

This is a man who gets his jollies from the thrill of cheating. I wasn't much surprised by the porn - he needs a thrill. The thrill is the drama. Not only is the OW a drama queen, SO IS YOUR XWH.

Don't feed the monster.

Stay controlled. Keep your texted replies UNDER 5 WORDS.

And stay off the phone with him. You need to think about a new Plan D - one where you just go to "business only" with him, and cut those strings so YOU can go on with your life.

BTW, the younger OW won't be around much longer if you go to a new plan of no contact. Watch FROM AFAR and see.

I agree. I am willing to bet he has even called you a drama queen. I know mine always did. I bought it too. Now though, being away from him, I have no drama?

I love this expression and I know it is true. I have to let it go. It is hard for me to know though whether this thing with me not wanting to ds to go on vacation with XH and OW is revenge or real concern for ds. I talked to ds about the trip today on the hour long trip to my mom's. I asked him if he understood WHY I don't want him to go. He said yes...we had a long discussion full of 10 year old stuff....like him saying he wanted his dad to take him to the waterpark because he didn't want me to spend all that money...and how he wants ME to buy him a PS3....it was all sort of convuluted....LOL....but finally I got it down to 'will you be devastated that you don't get to go to the waterpark with your dad.' No he says. And went immediately into talking about the PS3 again. He actually said, 'I will be devastated if I don't get a PS3.

And on the way home he told me he wished his dad and I could be friendly like he sees on tv shows of divorced parents....I said, 'has that been the hardest thing for you, your dad and I being on such bad terms?' He said yes....I told him I was sorry and maybe someday we could be friendlier but things were still too raw and fresh right now. I asked him if he ever told his dad that and he said no...I said do you just not feel comfortable talking about things like that with your dad? He said, 'well, if I try he just starts saying bad stuff about you.' I said, 'such as?' Ds10 says, 'oh like how you took too much furniture.'....I said, 'do YOU think I took too much furniture?' Ds10 says, 'no. But mom see...well, I see why dad says that because HIS house is twice as big as ours and so it LOOKS like you took a lot because there is so much empty space there.' This made me smile that my 10 year old has better reasoning skills than his father....so I mentioned to ds that THAT is exactly part of the problem---that his dad is so unreasonable about stuff....and maybe someday it would be better.





I know...it is pathetic actually...My neighbor friends are VERY annoyed by him trying to wedge in...That Saturday afternoon when he came over and chatted them up...he told the husband, 'well, I gotta go, OW is over there alone.' Neighbor husband says, 'Is she a thief?'

Later neighbor wife tells me, 'that was TOTALLY said to try and get an invitation out of us. Not happening.'



He got me on the phone today..I should have refused. He got ds on the phone first and discussed the trip. I heard ds say, 'mom says I can't go because OW is going.' XH says, 'it isn't right what she is doing ds.' Ds says, 'well, dad, I don't really have anything else to say, she doesn't want me to go. Wanna talk to mom?' So he hands me the phone....and XH begins to threaten me saying I am not going by the court order blah blah blah. I said, 'I believe I am honoring the spirit of the order...you aren't taking him on vacation with the woman that broke up ds's family.' He then threatened me...telling me to get ready because he is taking it to court....getting an 'emergency' order...blah blah blah...and it is going to cost more money that what I've got...I said, 'you don't know how much money I've got.' And we had a short conversation....but I said, 'well, I need to go now, I've said all I'm going to about this.'

So I don't know if he is going to file a motion or not....I am thinking long and hard about the whole thing...my mom told me today that she thinks I should let ds go. So I am trying to be 'still' and see if my lawyer contacts me to advise me....I will listen to his counsel...

The other thing is that I went to her parents house yesterday...armed with some stuff I want them to see about my XH. they weren't home and I planned to go back and try to catch them again in the morning....but I am not sure I should now. XH told me today that OW was not even going to be in the same hotel as him...she was going to be with her parents. Well, that is a whole new can of worms. Ds has never met them...I wonder if they know XWH will be up there in the town with them.....Are they approving, tolerating of the relationship now? I can't believe her dad especially would be..and I want the chance to show her dad the stuff I have on XH...I never want them to think XH is some nice guy. I was going to go at it by asking them for their help in dealing with their daughter and my XH trying to involve ds in their 'relationship' and how hard it is for me and ds since we are divorced now because of that relationship. Now I wonder....I think I will be still and see what he does with this latest threat. Also he is threatening to start over with the custody....I am not too worried about that....I don't think he will do all of that. And not sure he would win if he tried. That stuff gets VERY costly...and all for what? So he can go out of town with ds and OW?


So you think me going no contact will hasten their end? OW's BXH and I believe it messes with them when I keep WXH from doing what he and OW want to do. Maybe we are wrong though.

I am feeling a little bit of peace tonight....even though I don't know what will happen. I guess I feel better knowing ds is not THAT excited to go anyway...so if he has to go he will go and I will bring him home and make his life with me the best life possible.

He does call me a drama queen...

I am still trying to decide this morning whether to contact her parents or not. If I do I am going to say, 'Mr. OW's father, I need your help...I understand my X husband is going on vacation with your family this week...My XH wants to take our son and I am very upset by that...and he is threatening to take me back to court over it....just wondered if you could reason with them that it is inappropriate for my son to go...'

I haven't contacted her parents or her for a year...so it isn't as if I've been harrassing anyone...

Should I just wait and see if I hear from my attorney first? I dont' want to make XH so mad that he DOES file something in court if indeed he wasn't going to (even though he threatened).

Hi SW,

I think your being still idea is a good one. If XWH was going to take you to court over this, he would just do it, not threaten to. No waywards want to expose their adultery before a court room. I think the chances that he'd take you to court over this is almost none.

Take SB's great advice. Just go business w/ him. No more than 5 words.

I will go business with him...I always feel much better when I do.

Do you think I should let ds go on the trip or wait and see if XH says any more about it? He is suppose to be leaving tomorrow evening....I don't really want to call him up and say, 'oh, I've changed my mind....' But if my attorney contacts me and advises me to let him go I probably will..

My sister was married to a serial cheater. 27 years. Four kids. He finally left her for one of his affair partners. He is a real POS.

But, she took what she called the "high road" and never "bad talked" her XWH to her kids. And they are the four most morally confused kids I've ever seen.

So, don't beat yourself up too much about talking to your son about his dad. Obviously, you need to choose your words carefully and be in control. But, even if you lose it every now and again, at least you are being real. And honest.