I say go for AOA. OMs don't like it when WWs become to much trouble.

Do not cosign. But then you already knew that.

Hey my friend,

First of all, I finally have green peppers and hot peppers on my plants. For some reason the blossoms did not take - probably the humid weather here - but now they have. Also have tons of parsley as well, and tomatos.

Okay Igrip you have Not been doing your homework...and I say this kiddingly ...but AOA stands for alienation of affection. It is in the IL code as well. It works, but you have to have alot of proof or as I understand it will get tossed.

Igrip just be on your toes this weekend - this could be an important weekend for both of you. For you, your ability to monitor, and for her any demonstration of honesty as to her intent to cut off, or his for that matter. For you, I think you will pretty much know where you stand if she resists your accompanying her, or even showing up at where she might try to go.

Just please don't question yourself so much at this time. You are doing the right stuff for you, her, your dau., and your M. That is the only important thing.

I also posted MJ (michaeljan) this afternoon. You might do yourself a favor Igrip in maybe trying to give him your insight at some point.

With regards,

Tom

A of A is alienation of affection.

A of A suits are still allowed in Hawaii, Illinois, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Dakota and Utah. Every other state has passed laws that prohibit such suits.

If you live in and A 0f A state, it can be a weapon to try to break up an affair but can sometimes require divorce proceedings to begin before the suit can be brought. It is not typically a criminal suit BTW, only a civil suit.

Mark

Hi Igrip,

Just to say that I hope things are as well as can be for you this day.

Tom

Thank you Tom..and all the others that keep up with me on this thread.

Emotional roller coaster is not getting any easier at all these days. I know there are no expectations, but my goodness, this is so hard. I am trying my best to remain hopeful...really I am.

Today, wife is talking a bit (I just nicely answer with one liners to her this week....invite her to share when she begins talking but I don't ask any questions since I am trying to give space and stop any signs of pushing her). She was talking about jobs she was looking for. Saying how much tougher it is on her than on me since she had to look for work, etc. Does she not get it that it does not have to be that way? That SHE is making these choices? That SHE is choosing to 'look for houses, look for another job, etc? I just do not understand WW thinking.

And today, she tells me over breakfast about her looking at her planner from when she was pregnant..she wrote down peoples comments to her. I said 'that sounds like fun memories.' She said 'I wrote down two that your parents told me.' She told me and I apologized...that I know their words hurt and I was sorry I did not realize that in the past. She said 'don't apologize, doesn't matter now.' I told her that I still felt I should, even if she didn't want to accept my apology. She said 'you wouldn't apologize for them then, so I don't believe it when you do it now.' That was the conversation as she called a time-out (a new technique I taught her when either of us were getting overwhelmed).

Ugh...I feel like crap all over. Oh well, keep reminding me that it could be worse...

Igrip, I say you should definitely threaten OM with AOA and whatever other legal remedies you can. Yes, it MIGHT get thrown out if you don't have enough evidence but the thing is, it will be FILED and part of the public record regardless of the outcome. He may not want that kind of information out there, KWIM?

Time for some heavy hitting and conflict... remember conflict isn't ALWAYS a bad thing in a marriage, especially when it comes to a WW.

Hey Igrip,

I agree with PM if your state allows AOA suits. Just out of curiosity I searched for this on the net this afternoon. Tons of stuff on this. As I mentioned this is still on the books here in IL, and I remember a really weird story a year or so ago of some H who sued an OM even despite that it was established that he encouraged an 'open marriage'. As I recall he did receive some ridiculously low award of something like a few hundred dollars, but nonetheless, it was a judgement of record against the OM. Just briefly from what I saw regarding the IL Code, proof has to be established that the OM was the "sole and proximate cause of the dissolution of the M", and that the OM "pirated the spouse's affection, as opposed to those affections just floating away". Well anyway.

Igrip, I know it is exaspertating to you at times, but I would not get too affected by your W's comment this morning. In the words of Dean Martin tho, "ain't that a kick in the head". Believe it or not my W has ocasionally whipped out comments like that of feelings about past events when she was upset at something - even if at times I was not the cause of her being upset. Sometimes I feel women in general, not just WW's, simply have an extra memory compartment where they store feelings from the past and then have the knack of whipping them out at what they consider an opportune time. I honestly believe she did not 'plan' this on you. I feel that she probably got up on the proverbial wrong side of the bed this morning, maybe was feeling down, agitated, or antsy for whatever reason, and found this as her opportune time to zing you as a result of the way she was feeling. So, I don't think any special significance. You handled it well tho. And of course, no matter how that acutal situation played out at the time, there is not much you can do about it now. I know you feel like the NFL receiver who just caught the pass, and suddenly is whammed by the other team's linebacker. Then, as your falling, the safety senses an opportunity for a late hit (your W) and zings you again. Oh well. I would take it more as an opportunity Igrip. I think it is more a sign from her that she feels agitated or unsettled, again for whatever reason - maybe nothing immediate to do with you this morning. What about you key on that today - do something special that she likes. I don't know, a backrub, bringing home some special ice cream and making an old fashioned ice cream float or sunday, whisking her to a womens' store to allow her to look at summer outfits now on sale. Whatever. I am probably much more of a romantic than most of the guys on here would want to stomach and they would probably be gagging, but this is what I would consider.

Just take care of yourself, and you and your W try to have a great day today, and just get up, dust yourself off after this morning's 'hit', and go out and catch that next pass!

By the way, as of this morning one of my tomato plants look like an anemic Christmas tree - one bright red tomatoe and all the rest bright green..*s*

Tom

I thought igrip was from Texas. No AOA there.

Oh, I thought he was from Illinois. You're right though, no AOA here in Texas, we just shoot 'em.

I know many of these answers, but here goes anyway.

This afternoon, she says she wants to go to the track and watch the races. Not talk to anyone, just watch. I say "I'll go with you then' to which she says 'i don't want to go to the races with you.' I say then I do not want you to go....she says 'you can't control me.' I know I cannot....she wants to go...what can I do? We had a 30 minute conversation...I can't win. I told her to go...and stay gone then...please. I cannot deal with this. She of course will not leave our daughter, so no deal there.

Then she gives me her 'deal' for divorce...a great deal financially...IF I WANTED A DIVORCE. So, here is where the 'fighting' the divorce comes in huh? I may lose....lose much more than I have but at least I tried huh? This makes sense..I hoped it would not come to this. She just wants to be FREE...free from 'my thumb' she says. She is still exaggerating all I have ever done. She is still in the fog. She is still lying and not transparent at all. This is not the wife I want. Thoughts thought thoughts please...

So, after that conversation during dinner, I left to go to work. Did not finish my dinner and was not relaxed. After I got to work, I realized I didn't want to be there...I wanted to hug my daughter and I wanted to tell my wife what I thought of her going to the races tomorrow. I came back (talking to SDCWman on the way..thank you BTW). Told wife that if she planned on going tomorrow, that I could not stop her but I was going as well. Went on for an hour about how I was stalking her, being a parole officer for her, how she just wanted to watch the races with our daughter, that she wasn't going to see him, blah blah blah. Just angry. I told her that she had crossed the line with him by bringing him into our relationship and that I was not comfortable with our daughter anywhere close to adultery or that example. She was mad again...saying how did I expect that she would expose our daughter to that...was I going to tell her, etc. Blah blah blah. She threatened to not go to which I told her that was fine with me......

Lots of unrelated things came up as well.....judging her, society views against adultery, me not accepting her re-writing of history, etc........

I held my own. She said 'you want to put baby to bed..I just want to get away.' I told her 'I knew she would try to pull something like that this week...' She was furious...'you think I am that dumb, to go around trying to find him, etc...' I told her past performance dictated my concerns..she lied before about him, why would she do any different now. How she just 'wanted to see the car.' I told her she wanted to go to get her emotional fix...she denied that as well. I brought up the phone calls as proof...she denied that as well...I had information, do you know what we were talking about, etc.

EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING. This is not behavior that I condone or expect from my wife. I am saddened that this is where she is at this point in her life. I know the fog is there...strong and thick. This weekend is going to be tough...I'm sticking around close and she is going to hate every minute of it. She made this bed though....

I wish the real wife would come back out and we can get back on track to our regularly scheduled improved marriage

So, today I find that my mother in law is also lying to me. They went 'house shopping' together yesterday and both lied to me about it. BOTH OF THEM. Her mother said 'she did not want to be involved and how I pushed her to do what she did.' I firmly told her that I admitted my wrongdoings, but NEVER did I condone having an affair.

I am devastated that I am CONTINUALLY being lied to. And now her mom has joined in too.

Apologies or not, I cannot have this. A marriage can survive the affair, but NO WAY LIES. What do I do?

I "feel" like giving up...taking her offer and saying bye bye. Of course, I do still love her and WANT this to work. But we both have to want this and I feel I am fighting a sinking ship.

igrip,

Here's my two cents: Your sorrow stems from your lack of knowledge about your WW's A. If I were you, I would install a GPS tracker on her car. You'll find out about her waywardness real quick.

Find a Zoombak GPS tracker at Radio Shack. It's only $80 plus $18 a month fee, although you can cancel at any time. Buy industrial-strength velcro and charge the tracker for 10-12 hours. Then slap the tracker behind the glove compartment of her car. She'll never know it's there, but you will know where she's going.

The results likely won't please you. But they will give you knowledge, perspective, and an understanding of her mindset.

-----------------------------------------
Me: BH, 39 (and jobless)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
Her move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

I think that what you are experiencing here is a function of your "wait and see...there are too many obstacles for her" plan. For some time now, your plan has seemed to be to wait her out and hope that she will come to her senses, dump OM, and everything will go back to normal (but improved, since you have a new perspective). I think that you are seeing now that isn't a plan.

Igrip, I feel for you. Your situation is so close to what my little problem was, it actually gives me goosebumps to read some of your posts. Your WW seems to show no signs of remorse, or any interest in saving this marriage. She continually marches on toward a D, lying to you, disrespecting you, playing you for a fool. From this end, she seems pretty motivated.

The fear that you have is that if you stand up and put pressure on her, that she'll up the ante on you. And that ante could be high...maybe she will get angry, venomous, do even more to hurt you and screw you over. So what? Hasn't she already done that? Do you think that if you put even more pressure on OM, that this time she'll be REALLY mad?

Look, I'm not an expert on here. Your situation resonates because it's incredibly similar to mine. It seems to me that you are in a spot now where you need to start thinking about an end game. Speak to your attorney and get your custody and financial questions and concerns addressed, and get ready to dig in. Be ready to take the first swing if you have to.Stir up as much trouble as you can in this affair and try to crush it. Let your WW see that the consequences of her adultery and lies will have some very real world unpleasant realities.

Others here may disagree, but I would rather have the above as a plan for myself, rather than sitting around and waiting for the next blow to come from her. Which is what it appears as though you are doing at this point.

Hi again Igrip,

Just had my first day on new job and relaxing watching baseball but stopped in here too. I was really hoping that this past weekend would not be as stressful as you may have felt it could. It sounds like there was no threat of continued contact due to fact that you haven't mentioned anything, but the thing with your MIL, well not good to say the least. I am not sure why she is house shopping if she would need you to co-sign for a mortgage, and obviously you would not.

Up to this point Igrip I have to commend you for your patience and your persistence in trying to work your Plan A. You have much more than I ever would have. However, I did not have to go thru anything near as you are having to. At this point I do have to agree with honestguy Igrip. The Plan A and plan wait and see just do not seem to be effective. She doesn't seem to have budged at all or have been influenced at all. I hope at this point Igrip that you shift direction and go forward with any and all legal action and protection that you have available to you for the purpose of protecting yourself financially and custody-wise. Not only that, but I feel that with all the pain, disrespect, and deceit she has thrown at you that you once and for all simply demand no contact, transparency, and a willingness to commit to saving your marriage as a condition of your willingness to do the same. Then Igrip I would honestly start preparation for a Plan B, if that is even possible for you to do unless you could persuade her to leave due to her resistance.

Thinking you you Igrip - and hoping you do not have to continue to live day-to-day with this uncertainty and pain.

Tom

Hi Igrip.

Just hoping the best for you.

I had my W here last couple of days, which I know is a risk because she is banned here due to the fire, but we were able to sleep together again and if not for that, what is it about.

Anyway I assumed the risk. I still have her Igrip after all these years. You need to get your 'her' back. Or just, if you honestly feel you cannot, then disengage. When I was on my computer other night and sent that post she was watching a movie and then came over to look. I had signed off by then but told her about this site as I did once before, and I did tell her about your situation. No names etc, she is not computer literate. She just discounted it, not meaning your situation, she just told me you are always too concerned and lets go to bed. This is my W Igrip, and we have been separated her in a nursing home since last Aug.

Igrip, you have to take measures that you are sure you want your W at this time, and what she needs to do to commit. I am entirely certain that she likes you anymore and sort of now at this point would reject the 'alien' concept. She either loves you, feels married to you, or does not. I say this to you to encourage you to take the necessary steps to protect your life, your daughter, and your integrety.

Please Igrip take care.

Tom

Tom, I am glad you had your wife with you close last night. Nothing can feel better I can imagine. Thank you for your thoughts. Her fog is 'changing' a bit in the past day - she is starting to backtrack some of her previous thoughts (i.e. her and daughter would be 'safer' at home than living somewhere else, etc). Basically, she is still confused and her 'plans' change daily. She was 'depressed' yesterday. I know better now than to try and read the reasons why...but she was visibly tearing many times during the day...and she was talking so that is much better than some other days (and some other peoples situations).

My situation is not improved, but has not worsened either. Legally, I am ok no matter how long I wait. I have an appointment with Steve Harley next week so will see his advice for me.

I appreciate everyones thoughts and advice. Thank you.

Hang in there Igrip. Don't be thrown off by her actions/reactions. You will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the "why". She seems so much like my WW. Stay focused on what YOU should be doing. The thing is, she isn't working with a plan right now. She is free-styling and living off her emotions. Very little rational thought there. That is where you have the advantage, as long as you stick with the plan.

That is awesome that you will be talking to Steve. He is great at this and I hope you get a lot out of your talk. I know I do.

grip- I think all the emotions are a good sign. She is visibly conflicted. When you are in the middle of it sometimes you think, how could it get worse. My WW has left and is unaffectd by it. She claims she is happy and wouldn't think of reconsidering. So it could be worse, and eventually it might be. But for now, it seems she is still on the fence. But what do I know, I'm definitely not a MB guru. I'm not sure if I'm adding anything worthwhile here, but I just wanted to stop in to say, I'm following your thread and that you have my support and prayers. You, sol and I seem to be on similar timelines. One way or we will all reach the other side of this. I feel for you.