On 8/2/10 I got an EZ pass violation for my car. The trouble is that it was during a weekend that i was not at home, and it was a place that was not where my wife said she was going. I called her and she denied everything. I explained that I had a picture of her driving my car in another state and that I had cell phone records that showed that her cell phone was not where she said she was going. I also saw that she had been calling and texting an old friend of mine from my fraternity. She asked me if she should come home and I told her to do what she thought she should do. She took the train home from work at noon and I picked her up.

She started crying uncontrollably. And told me she had driven down to see him to talk. I imediately had her show me all of her Facebook messages and bank account. I found a message that somehow his underwear had wound up in her duffle bag and she was going to just throw them out. She explained that he had taken a shower after the beach and he had thrown them and the somehow wound up on her duffle bag, but nothing had happened. I knew better and asked her again. For two days she continued to lie to me , but eventually, she admitted having sex with him just once. She was drunk and he had taken advantage of her.
fast forward 3 weeks and we have had 2 counseling sessions and she has admitted to another emotional affair. She had been having emotional affairs with 2 guys at the same time. Both of them are losers and she sent then no contact letters, deleted her facebook account and we check her cell records daily. I also have installed keyloggers andect. She says she didn't want me to know how screwed up she is. We have been married 13 years with one 6yo daughter. I had no idea that this had been going on. Everytime that i left the hgouse to go hunting or fishing, she had emotional affairs/. She has not tried to contact either of the guys. She claims that the guys were losers and she got involved with trying to help them through their jobh and family problems. It appears that this is the truth based on what I have found. However, they both turned into emotional affair and one became physical. I have gone through the last 2 years of cell phone bills and I have a good idea where she has been and who she has been calling. I think i have the truth at this point, but I am still bothered by the fact that she could lie to me. I feel betrayed, taken advantage of, and resentful. i always believed that if one of us would cheat, it would be me, but I have never cheated.

We want to work this out and she is really trying to be good. She is not contacting thew guys. They both live far away. I am hoping that someday, the pain and resent wiill go away.
I think she has a leggitimate mental health issue and is possible codependant. her moth is textbook codependant. She seems to fit the model well too. Tomorrow, she has a session with our counselor by herself. I have pleaded with her to reveal the dirty details of her self esteem. I hope she can get a diagnosis so that out health insurance will cover her sessions. Next week, I have a session whith the counse;llor and the following week, we are both going. Please tell me there is hope for our marriage.

Cuckoo,

There is hope for your marriage.

The term "codependent" means a who is mutually dependent on or in an unhealthy psychological relationship in which one person perpetuates another's addiction or harmful behavior;

it can also mean a person who is unfulfilled, constantly in relationships, is indirect, unassertive when they have a need; the person will also exhibit symptoms such as controlling behavior, distrust, perfectionism, avoidance of feelings, intimacy problems and is a caretaker of others.


Which type of co-dependent are you talking about, so we can better help? Is there addiction (alcohol abuse for example) in her family of origin?


If we better understand the mental health issue that can help us help you.


It is important to understand, however, that her mental health issue does NOT excuse her choice to have an affair. She does still understand the difference between right and wrong. If this was not the case, she would make no attempt to cover up her affairs, she would make no attempt to lie to you about them, and she would not show shame or remorse about them once you found out.

Therefore, she indeed knows the difference between right and wrong, and any attempt to shift the blame over to "I have mental health issues" is a no-starter. She may very well have mental health issues AND be a wayward spouse. The two are not mutually exclusive. One does not necessarily cause the other.

Don't let her walk away from taking responsibility for her behavior, nor do you allow her to blame you for "not meeting her needs" or any other "reason" for why she might have had the affairs.

The affairs are 100% her choice.

That is an important first step in recovery. She has to understand that when there are issues that need to be addressed in the marriage, she needs to talk to you - the boundary that she can never cross is to have another man meeting her emotional needs.

YOU meet her emotional needs. No other men do that. Period. She crossed that boundary - and you two start there for your recovery.

Read the website regarding Emotional Needs. Then, print out the information for her (make sure you do not reveal the website information to her). Ask her to identify her emotional needs, and rank them for you.

Start meeting her top three - do something each day to be sure you are meeting them. Doesn't have to be a big deal. Just something.

Then, talk with her about the state of the marriage IMMEDIATELY PRIOR to her affairs (each of them), and what she thinks was lacking. You also need to talk to her about what YOUR ENs are, and where she is not meeting your needs as well.

Talk openly and honestly.

Remain calm.

Do not lovebust.
No angry outbursts.

This is adult conversation, no judging her. Don't violate that concept.



Two books - ASAP.

Surviving an Affair
His Needs/Her Needs


Read them, put them into action.
While you wait for the books - read everything on this website and get the concepts into your head and into action.

Don't talk divorce. Just stay calm, and show her you are strong and looking forward. Tell her you have a plan to recover the marriage, to put it back on its tracks.

Do not tell her about this website. For now, it is yours, not hers.

The Vets will come along.

I don't know if I count as a Vet yet. I've only been here five years.

SB

I want to second everything SB said. I am diagnosed bipolar, but my choice to have an A was a choice, and I was responsible for it. No "outs" allowed.

Sorry, I said I've been here five years. Four and a half.

Five years (almost) since d-day.


Feels like a lifetime. Might as well have been, some days.

Cuckoo, welcome to Marriage Builders, sorry you are here. "Co-dependence" is a typical misdisagnosis made by some counselors who don't really know what it means. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist and he believes that "codependency" is a dangerous trend when applied outside of addictions. Check out his article: How the Co-dependency Movement Is Ruining Marriages

Exactly why I asked that question.........I worried about that, because Cuckoo didn't mention any addiction!

This is the type:

it can also mean a person who is unfulfilled, constantly in relationships, is indirect, unassertive when they have a need; the person will also exhibit symptoms such as controlling behavior, distrust, perfectionism, avoidance of feelings, intimacy problems and is a caretaker of others.


He mother is this way too. *I think it is either genetic or her mother taught her to behave this way. She has been severely depressed, but unable to share this with me because she is ashamed of it.

I am cutting her NO SLACK in the decision to cheat on me. I have forgiven her and am no longer angry with her. I resent what she did. She has been cold turkey for 2 weeks now with no relapses. She swears that she wants to work this out and is severely remorseful.

Being angry does me no good and is unproductive. If she ever does this again, there will be no if ands or buts, I am leaving.

She has an emotional need for affection that I was not adequately meeting. We already discussed the emotional needs.

I however had a sexual need that was not met for 2 years after the birth of our child and I never cheated.

That has nothing to do with co-dependency, though. There is a lot of misdiagnosis and psychobabble surrounding the real meaning of "co-dependence." It is simply inappropriate to use this label outside of addictions. Please read Dr Harley's article.

I just took my daughter and left. Yesterday was D day #3. I cannot put up with the lies.

Everytime I catch her in a lie is like she just cheated on me again.

Part of plan A is that you don't have ANY expectation from your wife, she is still a wayward and the only thing THEY CAN do is LIE!

Where did you go? Who are you staying with?

The only advice I can give you now that you have left is this....

When (I say when because I know she will call) she calls you and beg for you to come back, don't listen to her, she is still a wayward. Let her know there will be some conditions if she wants you back here they are...

1.) Write a NC letter to the OM (you send the letter after you have read it)
2.) Open and Honesty she has to be transparency meaning you have ALL ACCESS to email, phone, FB, etc...
3.) Counsel with the Harley's
4.) Reading "His Needs, Her Needs" and filling out the questionnaire.
5.) Spending 20 hours of UA (undivided attention) every week (this does not include TV, movies, or kids. Just the TWO of you)
6.) No talking to other men even if they are real dear friends, YOU have to be in the same room. (this is a boundary that I made when I came home to wheels)

You can add some but I would HIGHLY suggest you use these.

Good luck

Cuckoo,

Sounds like your wife has an entire ecosystem of lies going on, you may need to subject her to a lie detector test, if you wish to continue the marriage. She is clearly hiding much else.

God Bless
Gamma

If you have any desire to continue the marriage, a polygraph and full STD screen is a must.

I saw the NC email go to the OM. It was one of the first things that she did 3 weeks ago. Was it an ideal NC letter that made me feel better? No, but it was a complete NC letter. She terminated her FB account, Yahoo Messanger account, and sent NC letters to all of her Male friends with who she conversed.

She is scheduled for a STD panel tomorrrow. We should have the results early next week. She has scheduled a Psych Eval for next Tuesday. I had an emergency session with our councelor this afternoon. I mentioned mental problems and she agreed adn was going to recomend a Psych Eval. I told her it had already been scheduled.

I mentioned the codependance, She agreed and told me we were BOTH codependent. She said I need to stop giving and re-evaluate how much to give and ask to get something once in a while.

We are at my parents house and as the saying goes my Father's house has many rooms. It is about 5 minutes away from my house and so far they are happy to have us.

I had not thought about a Poligraph, but it might make sense. Where do you get that done besides the Maury Povich show?

Look in the yellow pages, or call a private investigator. There are many licensed polygraphers available, who practice independently. In fact, usually police use independent polygraphers because this is best practice for law enforcement in most cases.


If you want to save your marriage, go home. There is also another very good reason to go home:

YOU DIDN'T CHEAT. If anyone deserves to stay in that house, it is YOU. So if anyone leaves, SHE LEAVES. The child should not be subjected to being removed from the home and living out of a suitcase. The child stays put, the betrayed spouse stays put.

The wayturd leaves.

Furthermore, in the event of a divorce, YOU DID NOT ABANDON THIS HOME. It works in your favor.

go home


Tell her to find somewhere to go, for the sake of the child.

Unfortunately, she doesn't know what she is talking about and is unlikely to be of much help.

My suggestion would be to show her Dr Harley's article about "codependence" nonsense when misapplied outside of alcohol or narcotics addiction.

Any "counselor" who would misapply codependence in such a way wouldn't know how to save a marriage since many of the traits that are misapplied to "codependence" are the very traits that are critical to achieving a happy marriage.

In fact, most of us here who are in happy, successful, romantic marriages, including Dr Harley and his wife Joyce, would be classifed as "codependent" when those traits are misapplied to normals.

This is no small point, Cuckkoo, because if your counselor doesn't know how to save your marriage, she can only cause further harm at a critical time.

Please take the time to read Dr Harley's reasoning about why the codependence movement is ruining marriages. And keep in mind that he is a highly credentialed psychologist with 35+ years successful experience saving marriages.

I tend to agree with Mel. The term "co-dependence" really developed out of the psychological field dealing with abuse of alcohol, and the issues surrounding those who actually struggle with the alcoholic. The reason I asked about what kind of "co-dependent" you were talking about was to get this discussion going.

When you look up the term now, it includes the definition you chose for your wife. Actually, this isn't really a co-dependent person. The behaviors belong to other personality types who have other issues - but co-dependent people really fit the description of a person dealing with the dynamics of a substance-abuse situation. The true co-dependent person becomes enmeshed in the substance abuse cycle, and actually ends up encouraging and enabling the alcoholic or addicted person in the abuse, rather than discouraging the behavior. Somehow, the co-dependent person's life gets centered on the addiction, and all that it entails. They themselves are not "dependent" on the substance, but "co-dependent" in that they need that other person in their life to have that substance dependency. So they do things that perpetuate it.


If I were you, I would call the Harleys for marital coaching, or find a local counseling center familiar with the concepts found here. Then, I would find a psychologist (Ph.D. level) and not a counselor (master's degree level) who can truly diagnose your wife. It does make a difference, and it will make a difference.

I hope for your marriage this can come together for you.

BINGO! "Caring" is great for a marriage of normals but can be disasterous when applied to an addict because it serves to enable him. A great marriage is contingent upon caring. It is impossible to meet the needs of an addict,[a black pit that can never be filled] but essential to create a happy marriage with normals.

Independent behavior is self preserving in a marriage with an addict, but profoundly destructive in a marriage with normals. This is why it is so dangerous to apply to the same standards to normals as you would sick addicts. It makes no sense.

And I have to say, there is not a great deal of sense of the culture of counseling. They cause a lot of damage to marriages.

I agree with Mel and SB about "co dependence." Most of the time when I see "codependent" used, it is just a way people try to get around being interdependent so that they can be selfish.