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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl



What about spouses reading each other's posts - good idea or bad idea? I told him I was fine with it, gave him my screen name and encouraged him to join up also. I think he needs to talk to someone who has been through this and come out the other side and I think he can find that here. There's a big part of him that doesn't see us being able to get through this.


Can he come here and talk to us? We can help him through this. I think he should read your thread. That will help him understand your mindset.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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WPG,

You might want to read some of the BH threads to get some insight into what is going through his mind, and perhaps anticipate some of his questions he wants to know but does not ask. The WW threads really helped me when I first read here.

You wrote.

I snapped back that......but I don't think it about myself and neither does God.

My wife feels that way too that since she has confessed to God she has no need to do so to me, thinks blanket statements like "things we have done wrong to each other" during prayer are going to suffice, kinda galling the religious justifications.

I DO think those things about myself (sl*t, wh*re, you name it).

Partly that is why I feel OMW needs to be told, if you are those words then isn't he? I feel it grossly unfair that the OM walks away from the accident unscratched.

Yes your H should read your thread, be prepared for him not to get it however. My W was very happy with the Marriage builder changes in my, but when I showed her this website she could care less.

God Bless
Gamma

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OMs wife does not know, which Im torn about after reading about exposure on this site

WPG-

Your story is VERY similar to mine except I was the one who discovered the A between my WH and his "old friend" from HS on Facebook. I found all of the saved chats and emails. And yes....I was pregnant 4 days away from delivering our 3rd son.

At first I sent the OW a message on FB telling her I knew, but I didn't expose to her H or anyone else. I mistakenly thought I could save him the pain I was feeling. This allowed the A to continue for 6 more weeks. When I finally did expose to him he Thanked me over and over again for coming to him. The one thing he did tell me later is that he wished I had come to him first instead of his WW.

I later found out about 2 other ONS my WH had. I had NO idea about any of these. I wish the OW had come to me back then and told me the truth. I can't begin to explain to you what that level of deception does to a person. For 10 years I was lied to, for 10 years I thought we "had it all", for 10 years my WH lead a double life. For 10 years he left me vunerable to STD's (and yes we had 3 children in 10 years).

The wife has a right to know. You owe it to her to tell her the truth. That way she can make the decision (with her eyes open) whether or not she stays in that marriage. If you keep this from her you are helping her WH to have another A with whomever comes along.


Me-BS 41
WH-40
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DS-3

12/2/2009 Discovered WH "Online flirting"
3/17/2010 WH admitted to PA
3/21/2010 WH admitted to 2 other ONS

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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
... Earlier this year, back before I'd found this site, I remember one day we had taken the kids to the park. We weren't really speaking that day, just kind of coexisting, and I remember he snapped at one of the girls. I told him not to do that (and I am sure I said it disrespectfully) and that she was just being a kid. He told me to shut up. I snapped back that he can think whatever he wants about me, but I don't think it about myself and neither does God. I walked off ahead of him and he ran up behind me and threw his wedding ring into the lake. It was an ugly, ugly day. And the thing is, in the bad moments I DO think those things about myself (sl*t, wh*re, you name it). Is is just me, or is it harder to get over thinking that about yourself when recovery and your BS seems so stuck?
My wife is one of the most faithful Christian women I know, but I think if I'd have tried to invoke God as my character witness, she'd have thrown ME into a lake. I trust that now you have a better appreciation for how presumptuous that must've sounded in your husband's ears, for you to be telling your H about what God thinks about such & such.

However, beating yourself up is not a shortcut. I've tried that. Some days, I still try. But the reason it gets you nowhere is because it's self-focused. There's a difference between proper humility (which is very important) and beating yourself up. I think the guilt is always going to be there... 20 months past D-Day for me, no false recovery to delay or hinder us, and yet it hasn't gone away... but one key for me is to leverage the guilt, by letting it motivate me to be better toward my wife, letting it motivate me to cut her more slack on whatever's going on on a given day.

I'd counsel patience on your part. Less than 9 months from your last D-day & with a history of false recovery, you can expect marital recovery to take longer.

You say your H sometimes is reluctant for UA time. Couple of thoughts regarding that:

1) Yes, schedule it. Plan your UA time. This helps to make you less prone to bump it from your schedule when other activities or priorities crowd in. UA time was probably THE single biggest thing my wife & I did after my A that has helped us reconnect better than we were before.

2) Re: affair-talk dominating your UA time, you shouldn't let this happen. Your UA time should include a predominance of enjoyable communication that helps you two to re-bond. It is true that there'll be times when your H, or even you, will feel a need to talk about aspects of the affair -- what led to it, what happened, how you felt, whatever. And yes, he needs you to be willing to answer what he asks. Anything. But you should also schedule the affair talk in advance. That way, neither of you will be blindsided, and you'll have realistic expectations for your UA time. If you each know in advance that you'll be talking tough topics, then there's less chance that one of you will be disappointed when the conversation heads in that direction -- because it's already on the agenda.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
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Blindsided - that's funny (well, not funny "ha-ha") as that is how I always seem to feel after we spend time together and I find out he's been miserable and not really enjoying it. I'll feel fairly positive and then we end up in our counselor's office and everything is so negative. I get discouraged and I try so hard not to show it. I've told DH I don't like to let him know when I get discouraged or frustrated because I am afraid it will be contagious...he's told me that the things I am doing are the only reason he's still here. I know that's a positive, so I try to focus on that.

Believe me, I know that comment was a very presumptuous and sanctimonious thing to say. Especially when the truth is I doubt how anyone, let alone God, feels about me. Yeah, I admit that it is easy to beat myself up but I see the point that it is self-focused. I can't focus on being a better wife when I feel like dirt, because when I get like that I don't want to do anything. But again, same as above, I don't like for DH to see me get negative, I feel like I need to be the positive one. I feel like if he thinks I am giving up, it will be easier for him to give up - does that make sense? And the last thing I want to do is to give up on him.

So I cracked open the HNHN course today and started looking at the material. My biggest fear is that he won't want to do it, he won't even want to start with scheduling the UA time. He's going out of town next week for work and I'm not looking forward to him being gone. We have been apart for his work or my work since January but every time has been extremely difficult. When I've been travelling, he ignores me, and when he is travelling it seems like he focuses on my betrayal, maybe because without any other distractions it's so easy for him to do.

So I know next week there's virtually no chance of us having UA time. He went to bed early tonight, I know he's tired but I can't help feeling disappointed...I watch him with the girls and see how much he loves them. He's just wonderful to watch with them! I've said in counseling that I was actually jealous of my own kids. And I feel like an awful mother for thinking that. My A devastated him so much that it almost destroyed his affection for them. I'm grateful that at least whatever happens between the two of us, he's trying to be the loving father he always has been.

Since we really have not talked today, I haven't gotten to talk to him about exposure to OMW or what to do about counseling, I did mention in passing reading the thread again but refraining from posting on each other's threads, should he choose to join the community. DH did have his individual counseling session yesterday but I don't feel right really asking him about it, beyond if it went well or if it was helpful. We don't have a couple's session this week since he's out of town. I have missed talking to him today. Of course conversation is one of my big EN's!


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It's going to take time. He's been twice-bitten, and the wariness will take a long time to dampen down.

Yes, perhaps the positive things you're doing are the only reason he's still there. So keep doing them! Don't expect an immediate payoff or breakthrough improvement. It will come. Gradually. If you don't quit. Keep in mind, he could've sicked a lawyer on you long ago. But he hasn't.

Yeah, trips are hard. I was sent overseas for a week 3 weeks after d-day. It sucked. But I wore out my Blackberry with my wife. Even if he seems to be in "ignoring you" mode, let him know he's on your mind. That's what you can do.

He needs to feel your steadfastness, and by definition, that takes a lot of time, when you've backed yourself into a corner where your word's no good & the only currency you've got left to spend is your actions.

Curious: Is your MC working through any of the Harley books with you, or is the MC working from her own program? Your sessions shouldn't be just "dump" sessions where you air out dissatisfactions. There has to be a forward focus on positive things you can do to heal & meet needs. Just asking...


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted By: GloveOil
Curious: Is your MC working through any of the Harley books with you, or is the MC working from her own program? Your sessions shouldn't be just "dump" sessions where you air out dissatisfactions. There has to be a forward focus on positive things you can do to heal & meet needs. Just asking...


GloveOil, no, our counselor is not working through the Harley books with us. Honestly, I felt like our old counselor gave us more positive suggestions of things to do, but that was during our false recovery so I think he's wary of things like that. DH sees her on an individual basis now and I'm not sure if she's heard of the Harley books, but DH did say she said we needed to continue spending that UA time together. I've read SAA so far, DH has not, and just got HNHN so have just begun looking through that. I don't feel like we're just "dumping" during our couples counseling but I'm starting to think we're not getting any guidance on working on building the love between us. The counselor talks mostly about God's love for us and the concept of forgiveness, which is great stuff but I sometimes think he's not giving concrete steps on moving in the direction of reconciliation and restoration of our love. I was raised in a Christian home and I know Biblical teaching and doctrine, but knowing how God loves us and that He forgives us our sins is not flipping a magic switch for either of us, does that make sense? And it's certainly not like I've been the best Christian my whole life. I think he'd agree with the Harley concepts but just don't know how familiar he is with them. It will definitely be something to bring up at the next session before we make any kind of decisions on where to go from here.

We've been able to spend quite a bit of time together this weekend but I can tell that him leaving tomorrow is on both our minds today. The girls and I went shopping this afternoon and put together a "goodie bag" of stuff for him to take on his trip, a couple magazines and snacks and wrote him notes, we cleaned out the car for him and gassed it up so he doesn't have to worry about that. I am planning to get the kids to bed early tonight so he and I can have some time together. This is going to be such a long week...I miss him already.


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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
...I'm starting to think we're not getting any guidance on working on building the love between us. The counselor talks mostly about God's love for us and the concept of forgiveness, which is great stuff but I sometimes think he's not giving concrete steps on moving in the direction of reconciliation and restoration of our love. I was raised in a Christian home and I know Biblical teaching and doctrine, but knowing how God loves us and that He forgives us our sins is not flipping a magic switch for either of us, does that make sense?
WPG, I was & am a Christian man. But while I was supposed to be behaving like one all along, faith didn't stop me from having an affair, even with a self-professed Christian woman who was in my own church, no less. It's not that the faith is wrong, but when all we're focused on is ourselves, we've already fallen away from it.

When I was in an emotional affair, and was far enough in that I was aware what was going on, I went through the motions of praying for deliverance from temptation. I even prayed with the OW for her marriage (after she had been dishing to me on how things weren't going well at home -- which was none of my friggin' business). But she wanted me to know, and I didn't feel right about it, but I listened anyway. Selfishly. Because it felt good to be someone's sympathetic ear. An ego boost. And yeah, I could've gone home & read "Song of Solomon," or the Ten Commandments, or whatever, and maybe that would've worked or maybe not, for the purpose of getting my head straight, but the point is, I didn't, because I'd fallen away in a crucial way. I felt entitled to make my own rules.

The faith was no magic shield against having an affair. And it's not necessarily a magic roadmap to rebuilding a relationship. In my view, God doesn't give us progress, He challenges us to it. You're right, He doesn't flip a magic switch. Sometimes, though, He will give us certain tools, by which we and our spouses can discover or build the switch for ourselves. That's what the EN questionnaires, the concepts of meeting needs and avoiding love-busters, and the Harley "4 rules" of Protection, Care, Honesty, and Time have brought to the table for us: they've been very effective tools. Diving into that stuff even if you or your spouse are skeptical about whether it can work... well, that's not reciting some words of Scripture as if they were some hocus-pocus, pagan "magic spell". Diving into that stuff is faith in action. Your faith tells you what the goal is (a loving marriage), but you have to work to get there, individually & as a couple.

Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
... The girls and I went shopping this afternoon and put together a "goodie bag" of stuff for him to take on his trip, a couple magazines and snacks and wrote him notes, we cleaned out the car for him and gassed it up so he doesn't have to worry about that. I am planning to get the kids to bed early tonight so he and I can have some time together. This is going to be such a long week...I miss him already.
Good stuff, WPG.

Re: beating yourself up: Today in church, the pastor reminded us of a quote attributed to C.S. Lewis: "Humility is not thinking less of yourself but thinking of yourself less."
Easy to say. Sometimes easy to do, for a day. Harder to live. But keep it up, patiently.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted By: GloveOil
Re: beating yourself up: Today in church, the pastor reminded us of a quote attributed to C.S. Lewis: "Humility is not thinking less of yourself but thinking of yourself less."
Easy to say. Sometimes easy to do, for a day. Harder to live. But keep it up, patiently.


Great stuff...I am going to add that to the mini-wall of quotes I have in my office. That's one to focus on every day.

We did not have a good parting today. DH just left. He told me it would be better if we didn't communicate this week. He doesn't want to be reminded of the last time he went up there for work, which was back last year while the A was going on, and I was chatting with the OM online at night while he was gone. DH didn't know the A was going on then and he was hurt I didn't wait up for him the night he came home, I'd gone to bed after a chat session with OM. DH wouldn't kiss me or tell me goodbye when he left today, just stood there while I had my arms around him with his face turned away from me. I don't know what to do when he gets like this. I know I can email and text him like crazy this week but I also know he'll ignore everything I send.

I do believe that God gives us tools and it is up to us to use them. I don't think anything I've learned since the A was an accident. I believe God has given me what I need to know to be a better wife. I guess I feel like DH doesn't see it that way or that he even wants to use the tools we've been given. I know I can't make that decision for him. And maybe I don't deserve a chance to be his wife. It's all I want, though. I'm trying to show him that every day and right now I feel like I am failing.


FWW

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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
...I know I can email and text him like crazy this week but I also know he'll ignore everything I send.
... right now I feel like I am failing.
Email him anyway.

Don't worry about whether he sends you responses. That would be about YOU.

It needs to be about HIM right now. Your marriage can't recover any faster than he recovers. His pride is wounded. Grievously. Maybe too grievously to feel secure in writing back right now.

No matter. You keep letting him know (via your actions) that you're laying your pride down. Let him know, every day he's gone, that he's on your mind.

And be there at the airport when he comes home, no matter if it's 3a.m.


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Originally Posted By: GloveOil
And be there at the airport when he comes home.



lol if he was flying, I'd be at the gate with a huge grin on my face and waving a big sign! He's driving though (8 hours, ugh), but believe me, I will be here waiting for him.

I know it should get easier not expecting those responses - the whole idea behind loving someone unconditionally is that you love them regardless. And I do - I love to love him, to do little things for him "just because". It's just hard to make that selfish voice shut up when you don't get any acknowledgement. My focusing on "me me me" was part of what got us into this mess to begin with. But when I'm honest, I'd rather spend energy loving him than beating myself up. Loving him is much more satisfying. Just wish he was here to love instead of heading 8 hours away. frown


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DH has been gone now since yesterday and I still haven't heard from him. I don't even know if he made it safely to his destination, although I guess if anything had happened someone would have called me. I've texted and emailed, and right now just feeling pretty darn miserable without him.

I had a gift basket sent to his hotel room (I am afraid he'll think I want to make him fat, since I'd already packed a bag of snacks for the trip! But thought flowers would be kinda silly in a hotel room cause he couldn't bring them home). I took care of some financial stuff that needed doing (had to call about a bill, car title, and did some investigating on switching car insurance providers) - not terribly exciting stuff but since financial support ranks up there with his top ENs and he's taken over the lion's share of our banking and paying bills I told him I'd take care of it this week. So I emailed him the info I found today.

I don't know what else to do while he's gone and not communicating with me. I can't focus on anything. I guess I'm not really looking for advice so much as I needed an outlet. If I talk to anyone outside of the MB community, they would tell me to just leave him alone, if that is what he wants. I know nobody here would tell me to do that, or advise me to give up on him.

I don't know...sometimes I think maybe I appear desperate to him. Is there a point at which I should give him space? Is that what he really wants, as a BS, to be left alone this week? I second-guess everything these days.


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Did the two of you have a fight or something before he left? I think most BS would be nervous about being away from a WS and check in often to see what was going on at home. This seems off somehow to me.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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No - no fight. We'd actually spent a lot of good time together over the weekend. I left work early Friday and we had some time alone before we went to p/u the kids from school, then took the kids and dropped them with his mom, went to the grocery store and cooked dinner together, bummed around Saturday and then went to get the kids Sat. evening. Church on Sunday and he cooked lunch for us. He just shut down Monday after breakfast and that was when he said he thought it would be best if we didn't communicate this week, that he was having memories of the last time he went up there for work which was during my A. I don't understand it either. I thought maybe he'd call home tonight to talk to the girls, since I wouldn't be home due to work and he wouldn't have to talk to me if he didn't want to, but my folks were here with the kids and said he didn't call. Our little one's b-day is Thursday and I don't think we'll hear from him then either.


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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
.. Our little one's b-day is Thursday and I don't think we'll hear from him then either.
Don't go borrowing Thursday's troubles for Tuesday...
and for today, stick to Wednesday's worries.

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Originally Posted By: GloveOil
Don't go borrowing Thursday's troubles for Tuesday...
and for today, stick to Wednesday's worries.


I know...Matthew 6:34. I am a worrier, big time...I try not to, but sometimes my mind goes down one track and I can't get my mind off of it.

I guess the biggest things that go through my mind when it hits that track are since he's not communicating with me at all, I assume he doesn't miss me. Then I wonder if he's happy not to deal with me this week. I wonder if he's doing it purposely because he knows that it hurts me. Then I wonder if he hates me. Which then leads me to more unproductive beating up on myself.

And truthfully I'm also angry at him for going radio silent this week, not just ignoring me but the kids too. But then I feel guilty for being angry at him, because I feel like I no longer have the right to be angry at him. How can I be angry at him, when this whole situation is because of what I did?

This is just not a good week.


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WG,

And truthfully I'm also angry at him for going radio silent this week, not just ignoring me but the kids too.

Perhaps he is wondering if they are his, since he now doubts every memory he has with you, he might also doubt his parentage, you might want to clear this up if he gives you the chance. As they say Mammas' baby Pappas' maybe.

My son is now in college and I have the biological sample, but I tremble about sending it in for DNA testing.

God Bless
Gamma

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Gamma - this is your worry. This is YOUR obsession. Don't put your issues on her BH who you don't even know!

2X4s are one thing on this forum...but don't go stirring the mud up in someone elses pond!

That was neither a 2x4 or helpful advice
------------------------
Hun - Your BH has a multitude of reason he might have gone dark. I dont know him. It is a JD to assume and guess. Let him be. Your DD will have other birthdays. Give him space and time to breath. No matter what happens you will be okay.

Your hurting because of what you did. You are questioning who you are. You are scared by your actions, by whats happening to your family etc. Dont go borrowing other peoples issues, you have enough of your own.

I am a FWW. My H has yet to forgive me. Its complicated. But through It all I have become a better mother. I have found strength i never knew i had. I relied on my BH for everything really...now I have to manage on my own and I found out I can and will. You can and will be okay. Restored marriage (my fingers to gods ears) or not. you will be okay. Breath

When he doesn't call - breath
when he doesn't come home when you expect - breath

Just focus on being the best mom possible and give him space.
Space to return to you
space to leave
space to do what he needs.

Seek to do loving things without a regard to if they are returned...love him as the father of your children for loves sake...even if he doesn't give much back now. Love the children. Everything you do, do for love. And let the rest....breath


When nothing else is in your control - breath

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SR,

Gamma - this is your worry. This is YOUR obsession. Don't put your issues on her BH who you don't even know!

And you know her BH? You have a male perspective? I can tell you that men will brood for years on an issue never saying a word, while the women will just move on not wanting to open a wound which they feel uncomfortable about looking at.

God Bless
Gamma

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G
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531
no - gamma - not a man
dont know her BH.
I just think..she has a heavy burden and we dont need to levy more worry on her shoulders with out proof. Until her H says this is his issue. Its a flat out DJ...i have been told over and over again on my thread not to put my ideas and thoughts out there as my BH. Not to assume what he is feeling. Well Its a DJ for us to assume we know what her BH is thinking or doing. I mean the things a BH or BW is worring or thinking about is as countless as the stars...just...if your here to help gamma...dont add to her burden.

If she comes to us and says - my BH thinks our DD isnt his what should I do...THEN offer advice. But...until then...dont add to her load without proof that it is HERS to carry.

I know as a FWW, every unhappy thought, action, deed... Anything that goes wrong in my BHs life...i worry rests on my shoulders...trust me...you dont need to add more. The woman has enough to carry.

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