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#242595 01/23/04 03:03 PM
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I posted in a previous post that my 'whatever' attitude was working - as for me that is a 180. Usually, I would beg for attention. I'm happy with the change in myself, because it's hurting me less. But, I am still frustrated inside with my H - yes, I know I said that he got me roses and has been nice (he has, the roses were for my birthday, and he is nice sometimes). But overall, he's just being a major downer. He's not working all the overtime he used to.

Now he comes home, sits in front of the tv and later appears for dinner. Then its either to the sofa or the TV. I would think, yeah, sofa, lets talk, or cuddle or something silly like that. Nope, no sir, he's tired, falling asleep, oh my god leave me alone already. This has been his attitude for quite a while now, even before we had these issues... and they are really getting to me.

He is the kind of man who would never read things like books, this site - fill out the questionairres, no way in his world would he. Marriage counseling, not for him he says. To him, if it isn't there then why be together. Boy would I like to pull his ears real hard one of these days to get his attention, geez...

I told him yesterday that I was bored. He said, okay, get a life, go do something, make friends, leave me alone. I was like, huh, we are married but don't date anymore. I've tried to push the issue, and pushed it, we've gotten (on rare occastions) sitters to go out and had good times, but it's like pulling teeth to get him out (with me, now with the guys it's like a magnetic force)... Romance, whats that? I do not complain to him anymore, because he feels very bad about things and told me the other day that I made him feel like the worst husband in the world when he was really trying to love me and be the best and make me happy. He says it hurts him that he cannot make me happy... But doesn't he get it??? Falling asleep on the sofa or in front of the tv EVERY night isn't going to cut it??????

I slipped up and cried last night, but left the room REAL quick. Man, what a life this is. I've been so sad today, because I think that if our lives keep going on like this neither one of us will be able to stand it much longer.

#242596 01/23/04 03:29 PM
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My husband falls asleep in front of the TV too. It is a wind down thing for men I think. But we cuddle at night. For maybe an hour at least. If I want more cuddling I ask him to come upstairs early to the bedroom.

You wanted him home more, and now you are bored. For some reason you expected more or different from the man when he gets home.

Write down exactly what you want from this man no matter how wild. I want to see what your expectations of marriage are.:

1. I want him to come home, talk to me, etc....

2. _______________________

3._______________________

4._______________________

5________________________

Write 100 things you expect from your husband when he gets home so that you will not be dissapointed in him and unhappy.

#242597 01/23/04 03:40 PM
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edited. (oops, didn't see baba's post above...)

<small>[ January 23, 2004, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: lavender ]</small>

#242598 01/23/04 03:43 PM
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Here is another question for ya.

Can you be happy JUST BY YOURSELF no matter what your husband does, says or does not do? Can you expect nothing from him and just trot around the house and be happy?

You know, if your happiness depends on someone else doing something or being a certain way, then you will always be crushed and dissapointed.

If you could be "strong enough" and "brave enough" to "squeeze out children" painfully over a 24 hour period, then you can be "strong enough" to learn to be happy without lots of outside help from your husband or anyone else.

When you cry, what are you really crying about here?

Your ruined life?

Your dissapointment in marriage expectations?

The fact that marriage is not making you happy like you hoped it would?

Your childhood abuse?

Your desire to get rid of the kids and have a life?

Your desire to have a romance?

________________________________other


What ARE the REAL REASONS you cry?

#242599 01/24/04 02:41 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by baba2:
<strong>
Write down exactly what you want from this man no matter how wild. I want to see what your expectations of marriage are.:

1. I want him to come home, talk to me, etc....

2. _______________________

3._______________________

4._______________________

5________________________

Write 100 things you expect from your husband when he gets home so that you will not be dissapointed in him and unhappy. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tried to do this last night, and completed this just now: here it is:

I want him to be in love with me, like he used to be

I want him to want to be with me, not without me

I want him to come home and talk and feel good with our conversation

I want to have weekends with no blowups or fights

While he is home, instead of zoning out and sleeping, I want him to wake up and realize that we are there, still in the house alone - because we are tiptoeing around not to wake him

I want him not to turn his back to me at night
I want him to adore me like he used to
I want him to call just to say hi
I want him to stop being such a grouch and lighten up so that I’m not worried that every darn thing will set him off

I want him to stop saying during arguments that our marriage was a mistake and he hates his life and that I’m horrible - and the next minute when we make up he loves me

I want him to believe in me

I want him to be interested in my dreams, and believe in them

I want him to stop telling me that I was a failure and he doesn’t think I’ll ever change

I want him to tell me he has faith that I WILL lose all the baby weight, not that I’ll be fat forever so I should throw my skinny clothes away

I want for us to date again, because we used to have a lot of fun doing so

I want him to have time with his brothers and other male persons playing sports or whatever so that he gets a break from ‘us’ and the kids, but not when he is neglecting us 110% and we feel resentful

I want him to be happy and not look back and think that we were a mistake

I want him to stop verbally chastising every positive activity we ever did together when we argue, which spoils our whole relationship and kills the spirit

I want him to INSTEAD of giving up on the marriage - give the marriage, and me, another try

I want him to be the hopeless romantic once in a while who makes the candlelight dinner and goes all out, okay okay, and does the striptease with the funky thong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ha ha ha

these are a few, but I feel guilty writing I want so much....

#242600 01/24/04 02:54 PM
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Good start Christine! Now I will have to look at your list and think of how you can help make it happen or be happy with some little things on the list and not long for more.

What you are hoping for is not too much in my mind. It sounds like it is all related to a "completely loving attitude" of marriage. You want him to eagerly and completely love you again and want to be with you above all else and not avoid you or insult you.

You do have the power to show him this attitude yourself. You can completely love him in every way even as far as giving him his space if he needs it. And do the things on YOUR list to HIM.

Others will help tell you how long you should be able to keep this up without him returning the love in the ways you need it.

When you first got married, did he do all those things on the list? When did it drop off?

#242601 01/24/04 02:59 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by baba2:
<strong> Here is another question for ya.

Can you be happy JUST BY YOURSELF no matter what your husband does, says or does not do? Can you expect nothing from him and just trot around the house and be happy?

When you cry, what are you really crying about here? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very good questions, and here are my answers:

I have been ‘by myself’ most of our marriage trotting around the house, skipping, walking and galloping with joy. From the day we married, he began working 16 hour days - I look back now and know this was necessary (I was working too) because we didn’t make much back then. But, gosh, 2 young newlyweds usually don’t expect that. He didn’t seem to mind, but after a while of the routine I began to miss ‘us’ - as in when we were dating and had more time.... We would talk, but nothing could be done really, because we were (as you put it, and I love it!!) squeezing out children.....

Fast forward — until October 2002. That is when the you know what really hit the fan. He was tired, he was fed up with me always being needy of his ‘time’, I mean isn’t the money enough, he would say... This was also the point when I began to try to solve our problems by talking until the cows came home and begging and pleading until he left the room and following him until he ignored me or left. WRONG decisions. He told me after a few times of this, he no longer loved me, that I was a pathetic whimp, and he wanted OUT - divorce.... I sought counseling at this time, which helped me a lot (dealing with other issues).


I realize that I’m the only one who can make ME happy. I’m doing that, slowly but surely. I have good days, and bad. But I’ve made quite a difference, lots of people notice. For a time, I think my happiness did depend somewhat on my H, that was wrong, as I would get crushed and disappointed.

I am, by nature, a strong person. I’ve had three children, and been through the worst of the worst... I could make it alone if I had to. I am working every day at being happy with no one’s help but MINE!!! But, I will be very honest, I’ve always had this image of what I wanted in my ‘dream man/husband’ (I mean don’t we all)? And when I cry, I’m feeling like a failure myself, and being saddened by the fact that my marriage isn’t like what I hoped. That I have created an image of myself in my husbands eyes as a weakling, although I am very strong. I cry because after all these years together we should have built a better foundation, yet, it feels like we’re starting over again at step one - and that is frustrating to both of us. I cry when he gets really pissed off and says things like he should’ve never married me, because I am afraid to lose him (I no longer cry in front of him, at all, though)! Not because of co-dependancy or anything, but because I love him with my heart and soul and if we could work through these issues, things would be great.....

But, no my life was never ruined (maybe he feels like his was, he says so when he gets mad). The childhood abuse sucked because I never learned how a normal family behaved and am now learning and it is affecting the way I react to others. Oh and getting rid of the kids and getting a life, ha ha, that’s funny - we all have our days - but they will go to college and then we will miss them and wish they were back!!!!

#242602 01/24/04 03:15 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by baba2:
<strong>
When you first got married, did he do all those things on the list? When did it drop off? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We dated for a few years, and he was a loving attentive boyfriend (most of the time). He was romantic and brought me flowers and the whole 9 yards. After we were married, it continued, but in lower doses because we were both working full time (he overtime) and we just had no time. We added 2 children (if you recall I had a son while I was in college at age 18, H adopted him), I finished college, and we were still working - but had more kids added to the equation. He says that is when I changed - after # 3. That is also when he changed, as a reaction to me (in his words). He stated that I gave up on life, the sparkle in my eye was gone, and I no longer seemed happy. He tried so hard to bring it back (without words) but he couldnt, he said. This is about when all that ended, and the yucky fighting and divorce I am miserable talking began. our 3rd child is now 3.

He gave up on the marriage, and stated many times that he was just there for the kids (no affairs). A month ago is when I just got tired of the fighting and changed my attitude to the 'whatever attitude' and put on a strong front (pretending) that I was strong, and started going to the gym and such. He brought me flowers (roses) and had been so surprised. Friday night, he said he had so much faith in us, and knew that we were both TIRED of fighting. That we were going places, had a future, that he loved me, that we were soulmates, yada yada....

(I now name our marriage the bi-polar marriage due to the following:)

This morning, Saturday, I overslept until 10am. No biggie I figured. Went downstairs, gave H a hug, said good morning. And he just sort of grunted. Then I started making pancakes for the kids. He said, in a very angry voice, I've already made them breakfast.... (well laddy da da, I thought). So we ate, then we (he and I) sat on the sofa for our morning ritual of newspaper reading while the kids watch tv. I asked him: honey, is everything okay, you seemed upset this morning? He blew up, he said, well while you were sleeping I was doing dishes and making breakfast. Then he really cut low: he told me that I was a HORRIBLE wife, that I sucked being a wife, and that he would've been better off marrying someone else (GOD I hate it when he pulls this CRAP). I left the room, I hate that so I refused to listen, or let him see ONE tear.

Later in the morning, after I calmed down, I calmly approached him, and said, honey I was really hurt when you told me that I was a bad wife. He said, yeah? Well, it's the truth, you annoy me, you b**ch at me (and even called me that word), you nag me, I don't even want to be NEAR you, you are the WORST Wife in the world.... a good wife would've gotten up early and made her husbands day off a good one by making him breakfast and talking about positive things, but noooo, all you talked about today was negative. Then he took the kids for the day to his mom's house, so he wouldn't have to be near me because I'm horrible.....

#242603 01/24/04 03:19 PM
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I think unless he can quit the Lovebusters you are done. Nobody can take that verbal abuse for any length of time.

He has lots of resentment, maybe "marriage" is not what he thought it should be either......

#242604 01/24/04 03:27 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by baba2:
<strong> I think unless he can quit the Lovebusters you are done. Nobody can take that verbal abuse for any length of time.

He has lots of resentment, maybe "marriage" is not what he thought it should be either...... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I think he has alot of resentment. He feels that he has done everything to get us where we are (house, cars, me finishing college, etc.) and that I don't appreciate it and always complain and am not happy with him.

I'm just really getting sick of the crappy name calling and yes - verbal abuse, I took that crap growing up. I haven't stopped crying in 2 hours, I feel worse than I ever had because I know this isn't 'him'... One minute he's sweet, the next minute he's an [censored]. I don't know WHAT to do at this point, or even if I should talk to him when he comes home tonight, or ignore him, or pretend it didn't happen (what he would like).

#242605 01/24/04 04:31 PM
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"For a time, I think my happiness did depend somewhat on my H, that was wrong, as I would get crushed and disappointed."
I see so much of myself in "trying's" feelings about her and her spouse.
I realized the other day I always thought of myself in terms of my W. I wanted to support her and be interested in what she was and encourage her (and I wanted the same, which I did not receive) so my percpeption/definition of me, was through her. And that was and is wrong.
I'm trying to be positive, but her "perception" of the relationship and "us" is very deep and negative and I believe she is saying a number of things to justify her "feelings" and decisions.
She has left for a few days "to sort things out and regroup," she says. But a week will not change her perceptions or decisions or beliefs; I am not really sure what this is for, but she says, "I need time."
I was the one who wanted this, because I told I could not have her physically here if she was not emotionally here, neither of which she has been for a long time, since "this" all started near Thanksgiving. I cannot separate A and B and C.
I was crying a lot through today, because I wanted so many of the same things you talk about (again) romance, committment, conversation, etc. But earlier today, I realized I cannot control her feelings (a concept I've had a difficult time with) and if she does NOT want to be here and cannot see any way we can build an intimate relationship, then !@#$ her; I cannot wait around feeling sorry, while she gets her stuff together. And there are deep issues of trust, of which neither trusts the other now and I do not know if trust can ever be regained. So I must (difficult as it is, accept the reality) and get on with life. This will take awhile and there will be good and BAD days.
And today, when she left I was very calm and did not get upset or react or overreact; I believe this actually got to her, but who knows?
And I must go on and fight through the anger and sadness and frustration and perceptions and so on . . .

#242606 01/24/04 04:54 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bal:
<strong> I see so much of myself in "trying's" feelings about her and her spouse.
And I must go on and fight through the anger and sadness and frustration and perceptions and so on . . . </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">bal,

I am truly sorry that you are going through this heartwreching stuff too, as I would not wish this on anyone. I guess it just hurts so much because my H did not used to be like this, he never raised his voice, never would cuss, the only name he would call me was honey....

In his mind, he has done everything for this marriage, and he is waiting for me to step up to the plate and do my part.

I will never forgive him for calling me a bad wife, as I've given him all the love I have (to him and the kids), part of me says how dare he?

But its how he feels, and I just don't get that part!? And he's sooo miserable, he does what he wants when he wants to and doesn't let anyone stop him (especially me).

Again, I am so sorry about your W, but you did a great job of holding things together when she left - that is something she will remember!!! I know that for sure.

Christine

#242607 01/24/04 06:15 PM
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It's weird; the little things you start to notice, even though it has only been a couple of hours. She's been gone before, out of town, travelling, etc, and though it is the same, it is different.
Setting out 4 plates for dinner instead of 5, making tea (I usually made her a glass), getting everyone ready for bath/bed, etc, expecting to see her when you walk through the house, knowing you won't hear her sleeping or getting in the shower.
Hmmm. Weird, guess I'll adjust.

#242608 01/24/04 07:22 PM
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Bal

Here's just a suggestion. Please don't take offense. Did you ever try being "assertive" to your wife? I will try to explain what I mean, bare with me here. The times I have found my H the most attractive is when he was assertive. I don't mean in a controlling way, but when he genuinely and in some manly way protecting me. Example, I haven't been eating. Now prior to this I was all of 106lbs soaking wet, I have lost an alarming amount of weight, even my hairdresser noticed. Everyday, my H says to me "Did you eat today?" Almost in a fatherly way maybe, in his deep bold voice. Usually, the answer is "no", and he answers "You HAVE to eat, you need your strength" . Today, I did eat (McDonalds none the less, yucky way to start eating). My H called and asked about the kids and asked in his deep voice "Did you eat today?" I answered "Yes, I did eat today". He just replied "Good, you need to "

This is the stuff that makes me look at him differently. Now, this is just one example. I hope you get the point.

#242609 01/24/04 07:32 PM
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Yes & no.

It is about trying to find a balance; being able to ask about her without sounding (I cannot think of the right word), pushy, overeager, complaining?
She asked if I was ok with her decision today?
And I asked, "Are you ok?"
"It's only a week."
I'm not sure what that means, it wasn't an answer, then I do not want to push and overreact. Does that make sense? I want to ask about her, but when she doesn't react/respond, I don't want to push.
Find the balance.

#242610 01/24/04 08:59 PM
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Still stupid and hopeful. Thought she might actually call tonight, don't know why it matters? Because if she's not here and I don't talk to her, in my mind, she's gone. I know, I know, negative thinking. BE POSITIVE.
She called to say goodnight to the children. Did not "talk" to me. That's ok, (not it's not), but I did not ask to talk to her when the kids were through and I did not call back. Maybe that is a good sign?

#242612 01/25/04 07:23 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by luke parrish:
<strong> Tryingtohelpmyself,

It breaks my heart to hear you say this about your husband because it hits so close to home. This is similar to the situation I had with my wife, I used to say very hurtful things and basically just didnt like being around my wife. The reason I felt this way is because I felt like she didnt like me, i felt like she wasnt in love with me, i felt like she didnt adore me like she used to, etc etc. What I was too stupid to understand was the reasons she felt like this was because of MY ACTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am so sorry that you had to even go through that. Thank you for sharing your situation with me. I wish that I could say that by telling him that I'm at the end of my rope or this is it if he doesn't read the books or go to counseling - he would laugh, I've asked, he doesn't beleive in that, he thinks that I'm doing something wrong because he feels like things are just fine and dandy and I complain too much.

I have never felt so sad in my life. The man I loved told me that I was a bad wife. That cut my spirit in two. To top it off today, when I again tried to approach the subject calmly he said that he (again) wants a divorce, he's only here for the kids, I drive him crazy with all my talking, nagging and annoying behavior. That I have lost him... Today I was too numb to cry or even feel anything. I just walked away and drove off to run my errands.

The pain comes from the fact that he knows I hurt, he keeps digging in with the knife to hurt more, it's as if he wants to break my heart so I will be the one to leave, so he doesn't look like the bad dad in front of our 3 children.

I got home from errands today and acted 'like he wants' just to test the waters (he feels that I should just drop it and live like nothing happened and forget about my hurt feelings already and be strong for once). So I played with the kids, talked to him about taxes, dinner, the weather - numb inside, but I can be a very good actress. He was just fine and dandy with that. I wanted to kick him in the shins or wake him up with some really cold water <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I used to have hope, I am on medication for depression (clinical diagnosed even before these issues in our marriage), I go to therapy and I no longer have any hope whatsoever. It is just so sad, I loved him with all I had, with my whole being, heart and soul...

Thank you again for answering...

#242613 01/26/04 10:40 AM
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I guess this was our doing, for loving our spouses, with our heart, soul and being and beleiving they loved us.
W said, "I'm wary of anyone who says they love me; you don't even know what makes me tick."
Then why on Earth were you with me for 11+ years?
I cannot keep going over this and everything she has said and done.
I did and still do love her.


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