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Broom, how many years have you been working at the company?

Do you have children?

Does your wife work?

What is the dollar amount per year your wife thinks would make her happy? And if you don't have children young enough that requires a parent to stay home, how much financially is she contributing?

How many hours a week are you working now?

Do you guys have a budget set out that shows exactly how much is needed for the necessities (mortgage, utilities, etc) and how much is spent on niceties (hair salon trips, DVD purchases, dates out, manicures, golfing equipment, etc)


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

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My family is somewhat upper middle class and I am part of a business that is owned and operated by my father and I (I have a sister who also has an interest in the business through a family trust). This is what no doubt played a big part in my being acceptable to her when we first met and dated.

she feels that there is a lot more I could be doing to force my father to make sure I fullfil her EN for financial support.

she wants me to have a major confrontation with my father over the business, get him out of it, and then proceed with us as the sole owners

These things are just ugly, ugly, ugly.

She wants a lifestyle at the expense of his father and I find it deplorable that he isn't shutting this down.

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Originally Posted By: committedandlovi
My family is somewhat upper middle class and I am part of a business that is owned and operated by my father and I (I have a sister who also has an interest in the business through a family trust). This is what no doubt played a big part in my being acceptable to her when we first met and dated.

she feels that there is a lot more I could be doing to force my father to make sure I fullfil her EN for financial support.

she wants me to have a major confrontation with my father over the business, get him out of it, and then proceed with us as the sole owners

These things are just ugly, ugly, ugly.

She wants a lifestyle at the expense of his father and I find it deplorable that he isn't shutting this down.

committed


He isn't shutting it down because of this:

Quote:
I can see that the root cause of all our problems has always been my inability to meet her need for financial support. I imagine my wife would disagree with that assessment


He's speculating. He thinks his wife doesn't like him because of money. THINKS.


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Broom, how clearly (if ever) has your wife told you that she would like you to have a confrontation with your father and get him out of the business? That was a pretty specific statement you attributed to her so it would helpful to know if that is also speculation on your part, or she has actually said that.

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Also, we don't know what role exactly he plays at the company. Some have speculated that he is a relatively new, non-integral employee that gets paid twice as much as older more experienced employees. OR he could do most of the work for not enough pay and be sacrificing his family's needs to enrich his father and sister. We don't know. It may even be totally valid and rational for his wife to think he should just take over the company. What if he has been doing most of the work almost single-handedly for many years? We don't have the details. Almost all posters phrase early posts to make sure they don't look like the bad guy. If his wife would disagree with his assessment (as he said she probably would) I want her assessment, or even his interpretation of her assessment, before calling her actions "ugly". She may very well want something unreasonable, but if Broom hasn't taken her thoughts seriously and partnered with her it is totally possible that she doesn't even understand the full dynamics of the situation. Seriously, I am sure we all know men and woman that will work hard to please other people while their families suffer. I can't even count the number of people that do this. Actually, people that put their spouses and children first just may be in the minority, it seems to me sometimes.

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This has just run into a mess of speculation.
There is no way we can advise Broom, without details.

Guessing about important facts is pure bloviation.
This has become a guessing game.

How old are you?
How old is she?
Do you have any kids?
Ages?
Mutual? Step?
How long married?
Previous M's? (both)
Have you taken a complete inventory of MB questionares?
Have you read any of Dr. H's books?

Does your W work outside the home?
How long has your family built this buisness?
What are the dynamics of this buisness that is crutial to consider before you make any "confrontations"?

Many posters donate much of their free time to help others. We are not here to play "Ask five questions". Firing off advice withouth knowing more info than what has been given is speculation at best.

Last edited by barbiecat; 09/22/10 05:55 AM.

Me; W 46
Him; H 46

2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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This could possibly be the same wife that wanted to end the marriage in 2006 but wanted to stay in the marital home (WITH him) so that he could support her in the style to which she had become accustomed.

They were separated but living together, she had her some "hobbies" that she thought he should financially support.

He had made comment in the past that she freely admitted that she would take advantage of him as long as he let her.

She actually thought it would be no big deal to live together after the divorce. She didn't want to suffer financially with the divorce. MrRollieEyes

Hopefully he will spread some light on the not so clear parts of his original post.

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Originally Posted By: committedandlovi
This could possibly be the same wife that wanted to end the marriage in 2006 but wanted to stay in the marital home (WITH him) so that he could support her in the style to which she had become accustomed.

They were separated but living together, she had her some "hobbies" that she thought he should financially support.

He had made comment in the past that she freely admitted that she would take advantage of him as long as he let her.

She actually thought it would be no big deal to live together after the divorce. She didn't want to suffer financially with the divorce. MrRollieEyes

Hopefully he will spread some light on the not so clear parts of his original post.

commited


Where are you getting this? Did I miss something?

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Originally Posted By: wannatry
Originally Posted By: committedandlovi
This could possibly be the same wife that wanted to end the marriage in 2006 but wanted to stay in the marital home (WITH him) so that he could support her in the style to which she had become accustomed.

They were separated but living together, she had her some "hobbies" that she thought he should financially support.

He had made comment in the past that she freely admitted that she would take advantage of him as long as he let her.

She actually thought it would be no big deal to live together after the divorce. She didn't want to suffer financially with the divorce. MrRollieEyes

Hopefully he will spread some light on the not so clear parts of his original post.

commited


Where are you getting this? Did I miss something?


Broom's posting history. All that was in his first post back in 06.


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Originally Posted By: CWMI
Originally Posted By: wannatry
Originally Posted By: committedandlovi
This could possibly be the same wife that wanted to end the marriage in 2006 but wanted to stay in the marital home (WITH him) so that he could support her in the style to which she had become accustomed.

They were separated but living together, she had her some "hobbies" that she thought he should financially support.

He had made comment in the past that she freely admitted that she would take advantage of him as long as he let her.

She actually thought it would be no big deal to live together after the divorce. She didn't want to suffer financially with the divorce. MrRollieEyes

Hopefully he will spread some light on the not so clear parts of his original post.

commited


Where are you getting this? Did I miss something?


Broom's posting history. All that was in his first post back in 06.


Thanks, I went back and read that first post. More of the same! I still don't understand where the (mis?)characterizations of the wife are coming from! I have EVEN MORE sympathy for her now. Broom sounds like he knows that and is quite contrite. What I got out of it is that she devoted herself to her kids and family while they were young while her husband LIED to her about his work (with the family business) and his WAGES. So, she was sacrificing her earning potential and career advancement to stay home and take care of the kids and do the majority of the housework while her husband LIED ABOUT HIS WAGES. He mentions that he started helping more around the house after the separation, which means he wasn't helping her much before. What the heck am I missing here?? How does it help Broom to criticize his wife? She may not have been doing everything right, but most of us didn't before we found MB. I didn't read all the posts, but many posters want to look like the "good guy" once they start getting criticism and post additional negative details about their spouse. But Reading these "first" posts is pretty illuminating...

Wow!!

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Broom: how are the chances of you NOT working in the family business? Have you considered it? Could you get the same sweet deal as your sister, and do your business elsewhere?


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You asked for it...

My wife and I are in our mid-40s
married 16yrs
2 sons 14, 11
this is her second marriage and my first...

My wife and I have a lot of history in our marriage and much of it is bad. I carry most of the blame for this primarily because I had no idea about how to deal with her needs from our marriage from the very beginning. My wife is a very combative person. I am the opposite of this. I'm sure on some level she liked that about me because it makes me easy for her to control simply by being herself. She was very careful not to be this way prior to our getting married, although I wasn't taken by surprise by her assertiveness after the fact, I was however taken by surprise by the sever increase and direction her assertiveness took after we were married. Looking back I can see where she was making strong compromises with me in regards to FS and confronting my family: No honeymoon just a weekend trip to a local B&B. No diamond engagement ring, we bought our own bands with our own money. We lived in her modest home for the first 5 years of marriage, before our first home upgrade. My pay in the family business was modest at first and raises were slow in coming. When she felt I needed to step up and didnt she felt justified in being extremely assertive, to the point of being verbally abusive. I felt duped by her. This pattern began the day we got married and I simply had no clue what to do about it or how to deal with her. She used every tool at her command to motivate me to stand up for us (withholding sex, being mean or nice to the point of verbal abuse, you name it she pretty much did it). I finally started telling her what she wanted to hear just to get her to leave me alone. Naturally over time this approach stopped working and the pattern would continue, but renewed. I should also say my wife suffers from depression and has long taken medication for this. Shes never been diagnosed bipolar, but her behavior would usually coincide with her monthly cycle and those where the times when the abuse was worst and occasionally would become physical (nothing that would leave a mark but she has struck me on occasion when shed get mad enough). Her behavior justified in my mind my behavior towards her. A cycle of resentment began in both of us. We had 2 children and moved twice (both upgrades) during this intense period. She had a career but retired right before our first child was born. We went to a lot of MC, to no avail because neither of us changed fundamentally what we were doing. Me resenting her need for FS and her resenting my failure to fulfill that need and stand up for our family. 6 years ago we separated. We lived together but not as husband and wife. She began a new carrier/hobby during our separation and began to exert herself as an independent person again. I discovered MB and read HNHN and it really helped open my eyes to what had always been wrong in our marriage. Due to me being pragmatic and the fact that I still loved my wife I figured we were all better off living together but separated. This went on for 18 months. No sex, no interaction, just me trying to commit more for the family. After those 18 months she made the move to reconnect with me as husband and wife. Id pretty much given up on it at that point so I was really surprised by that. The last 4 years havent been perfect but I approach our marriage in a more MB fashion, and so were still together. Id stopped lying to her prior to the separation, but I didnt let go of the resentment. I did that during the separation after I began to understand MB. Today my wife owns 2 businesses that I bought for her out of money I provided (through good investments Id made during our marriage). Her businesses dont make any money though, they break even, but she is able to finance certain things she likes in life (primarily wardrobe, jewelry, and accessories). Also her businesses are a way for her to asset herself as an independent and valued person in her own right and in the community. Im in a much better position with the family business and feel positive that the future has promise for me financially and stability even in this uncertain economy. A sore point for her is that I havent had a raise in 7 years. The truth is Ive done well to maintain my income in that period, but she has a hard time seeing it that way. Last year I leased a vehicle for her that she absolutely can not stand. Putting her in it turned out to be a major love buster. At the time I figured it was a pretty nice car (a loaded Ford Explorer) and that her old car (a loaded Suburban that was beginning to get some miles on it) needed to be replaced. Turns out I would have done better to simply purchase the Suburban outright through my business but I didnt and she really objects to the Explorer. My justification is I was being frugal while providing the family with a new reliable nice car. She was thinking more along the lines of a Range Rover or Mercedes. Part of her ire is that shes getting older and she feels she deserves a nice car, shes compromised enough and its due her. Shes also still pushing for more income. Thats never changed but she sees my father and she also feels its due. She continues to carry a lot of resentment about our past. I dont blame her for this. It was all pretty bad, but at some point youve either got to let it go or do something about it. Im pretty tired of it all too and Ill never go down that road with her or anyone else again. Its easy for me to love bust when she starts to push for the things she feels are her due. I recognize though that MB is the best way for me to go in order for us to succeed together. Shes somewhat aware of MB but she really isnt interested in pursuing something along the lines of therapy with me. All in all Im comfortable working MB on my own with her. Its gotten me this far, but due to our circumstances making our marriage work is a challenge.

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Broom, does she understand that MB is not therapy? It is a behavior-based plan. Zero naval-gazing. smile

How much IB are you doing? You do realize that choosing a car for her to drive was IB, right?

You may be comfortable (in your own conflict-avoidant way) with working MB solo, but it will not be successful unless you BOTH participate. You two appear to have a huge commitment to each other. Use that to jump off to a better marriage, a fantastic marriage.

How would you feel about asking her to read the basic concepts? You could print them out and present them to her for her perusal, and ask her to share her thoughts on the concepts when she's finished. Honestly, it sounds like you both are looking for a way to make this work. I think a consensual acceptance of the basic concepts is a good starting point for true implementation of the entire program.

Basic concepts.
LBQ
ENQ
RC and FS inventories

In that order.

Will you step out of your comfort zone long enough to make effective improvement to your marriage? You both deserve to thrive.

(*important notice* Have the concepts ready for her, but do not force them on her. Don't throw them down and say, "Here, you need to read this and give me a 3-5 page report on it when you're done." Try something like, "I know you've heard me talk about MB before. I've been learning a lot more about it lately, and honestly, I think it is just what we need to rise to the next level in our marriage and in our family. I love you, and I want to be the kind of husband that MB describes. But I don't know if that is what you want. Would you read through the basic concepts and give me your thoughts on it? Does it describe what you'd like our marriage to be like?")


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You purchased a car for her without her input. This is a serious IB/LB and I think most people would be upset by it. You may have done it because you didn't want to buy the type of car she wanted, but it sounds like you didn't attempt to negotiate. You could have told her an amount you were comfortable spending. From there, she could have possibly suggested ways to add more money into the budget (maybe by spending less on other things) and found a car that fit her taste within that budget. By purchasing a car she didn't want for her, you communicated that you don't care about her feelings.

If you told her you engaged in IB because you wanted to be frugal, it is not surprise that she would respond by saying, why don't you ask for a raise. A 2% raise every year for 7 years could have made up the difference between a Ford and a Mercedes.

The businesses she runs are not locked in to only breaking even for forever. You may consider helping her come up with a solution to make them profitable. If she takes pride in running them like you say she does, I am sure she would be happy to find a way to make them profitable.

I could be wrong but it seems like you don't show her that you hear her concerns and care about her input. I would suggest working on the POJA.

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Thanks for such a detailed and honest post. What kind of input are you looking for? It looks like Love Busters are a big problem for you guys, have you read Love Busters?

Before I knew better (and afterwards, to be honest) I committed a lot of love busters. So did my DH. He committed enough that I was done with our marriage. Something that really clicked with both of us after reading Love Busters is this: even if you have a reasonable want, need or request committing a love buster in order to get what you want or to punish your spouse for not giving you what you want you are wrong. You have been partly been focusing on what your wife wants and has wanted. All those things were okay and valid, but she committed major love busters when she didn't get what she wanted and needed. You did the same. You mention throughout your post that many of your actions were due to resentment and not being able to let go of the past, and yet you are very frustrated that she can't or won't let go...

The only solution is to read the MB material and apply it diligently. If your wife won't participate, then do it yourself and come here for feedback. It is pretty clear from your post that you haven't internalized the concepts yet (it is hard and can take a while). Your post is full of Disrespectful Judgments and you justify not giving your wife's needs consideration when you don't think they are valid or acceptable.

Only you can decide how long you want to work on things on your own. I think if you really read and absorb the material and come here for feedback you may be able to really meet your wife's needs and avoid love busters. If you can do that for a while you may be able to get your wife on board to try Marriage Builders together. Ask her all the time what she wants and needs from you. Take her answers seriously and don't get defensive.

Honestly, though, there is often a cycle of love busters. In your post it is clear that her love busters are often (always?) in reaction to yours and vice versa. You may be able to break the cycle all by yourself. If you are open and honest, if you take her wants and needs into serious consideration etc. you may find that the yelling and attacks subside. She is love busting you in order to punish you or attempt to get her needs met. That doesn't make it okay, but it does give you tools to stop it by yourself.

Am I understanding this correctly: you bought/traded her car without her enthusiastic agreement? Did you even consult her? What made you choose a Ford Explorer? Why didn't she pick her own car? You could have bought a nice used Mercedes or other more luxurious vehicle, there were many possible solutions to that problem. I keep getting the impression from your posts that it isn't just the car she is driving that's the problem but how exactly she ended up with that car...and house, and lifestyle...Are you willing to completely change how you are interacting with your wife?

Unless the business was in the red or making ZERO profit for 7 years, which I suppose is possible in this economy, or you were getting some sort of deferred compensation above and beyond what other shareholders (who aren't working employees) in the company are getting, it is unacceptable for you to not get or request a raise in 7 years. Your wife is right smile

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My H traded my car in without my knowledge, and I lost my pool cue, that was in the trunk, that I'd had since I was eighteen years old, in the process.

Dang, now I'm mad.


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Broom,

You poor thing. You had buy your wedding rings with your own money? You could only afford B&B and nobody flipped for a 2 week honeymoom in Hawaii?

Sorry, that was mean.

Look. It's good you made some money in your investments help buy some businesses for W. Sit her down and tell her that she is only breaking even, when she can turn her businesses into what you dad has, you have no problem conceding to her requests. She can buy a Range Rover through her biz right? Not making enough? Huh... guess it's hard running a profitable business, can't she give your dad that respect?

I haven't had a raise from my business... ever!!! I do enjoy the perks of making more profit. I'm betting you and W get more perks than you are aware of... sick days, mental health days, vacation time dinners out. Who pays for dinners out with your parents? Dad I'll bet, how often do you do that? Or how much "stuff" do you have that was bought by dad that is in your house? Most of us get squat from our parents and infact pay for our parents dinner when we go out with them.

Car input? Most cars have a 30 day return... you could have taken it back. Tell her to use her income to trade in for a mercedes, I had no idea that at xx age you "deserve" a nice new luxury car.

Where's Melody when you need her................

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I don't know what part of the planet you live. But here in the US, you own the car the day you sign the papers. There's no 3 day cooling off period, not to mention 30 days.

I believe cooling off periods only apply to door to door or telephone sales. (Now some states my allow a cooling off period, but I seriously doubt it.)

Therefore, once you sign the sales contract, unless there is a problem with financing, you own the car, period.

I'd like to see what state allows one 30 days to return the car. Unless that's built into the deal, it's an urban legend, and bears no resemblance to actual contract law.

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EE, you would be surprised by the number of people who successfully return cars after one or two days. Car dealers want business. In that short of a time period (before titling), I can say IME (three dealerships, which is 75% of my experience with car dealerships) that you can return a car, voiding the entire purchase, but usually minus any down payment you paid directly to the dealership unless you purchase a different car from them upon returning the first.

Contract law doesn't really matter in a business where repeat and referral is so vital. The managers will tear up a contract to get a future customer.

The salesguys HATE it. But it happens.


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Originally Posted By: CWMI
EE, you would be surprised by the number of people who successfully return cars after one or two days. Car dealers want business. In that short of a time period (before titling), I can say IME (three dealerships, which is 75% of my experience with car dealerships) that you can return a car, voiding the entire purchase, but usually minus any down payment you paid directly to the dealership unless you purchase a different car from them upon returning the first.

Contract law doesn't really matter in a business where repeat and referral is so vital. The managers will tear up a contract to get a future customer.

The salesguys HATE it. But it happens.


Sure, they may be able to return the car for another. But if they buy a new car, they are either trading it in, or selling it back, usually at a loss.

I'd hardly call that returning the car.

I'd hardly call that having X number of days to do it. If a dealership does it, it's because it's for their benefit, not because of some consumer protection.

As a former Army officer, I've seen soldiers bitten by that sort of Latrine Lawyer advice from their fellow soldiers. They end up owning the car, and their buddy who told them they have three days or 30 days or whatever is not on the hook for the car.

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