Baba,

You have an incredible amount of pain about being a helpless child growing up with combative, dysfunctional parents.

I've read some of your posts encouraging abortion, as the best alternative to forcing another child to grow up in the kind of home you did.

Do you really wish you'd never been born? Do you feel that much pain about your life in general?

See, I grew up in a similar household - infidelity, abuse from both parents on each other and on their children.

But there were always little gifts from God - and I've seen those gifts available to every grieving, suffering child. But some children don't look up to see the angels weeping for them and comforting them. They don't see the gifts of special teachers.

I just wanted to explore the subject with you to see if I could help you find the gifts from your childhood. I think you'd make a great mother because you are so wise and passionate in defense of the child's need to be loved, cherished and WANTED.

Kayla - very astute observation! I, too, think Baba would be an excellent mother, but ONLY if she confronts those old ghosts. I have honked Baba off on numerous occasions but I have also supported her position on some issues. I like her. I like her lack of pretense. I admire her for sticking to her guns, whether or not I or anyone else agrees with her. I admire her for the work and dedication she has put forth in the area of SF with her H. Few women are willing to work that hard on that issue, especially after the years of crud she has gone through. I appreciate our Baba!

Hi you both, working on my taxes today with the bookkeeper...

I have no idea why my parents abuse left me feeling so in pain. And so empathetic to others pain. I do not know if it would have been better had I not been born or not except that God must have wanted me to be here.

I hate the "stupidity" of some people having children when they are abusing each other or having kids for their own selfish reasons. The kids suffer.

I know some parents do not even know how much their children will suffer being born to them if they are dysfunctional parents.

They have no (-------) idea!

And I do not ever want to be a mother, I have a tubal ligation. Perhaps I want to "nurture and mother" the world and "hurting people" everywhere. People who need a nuturing influence in their lives....


But I am trying to live without too much disfunction and am doing pretty well. Kasey and Thorned rose helped me with some big breakthroughs and I am always learning more!

Thanks both of you for your concern and wisdom. I love to learn more and more and try to help myself and others and end some of this pain in this world!

baba... am I asking too much? How old were you when you had a T.L. and was was the primary reason ?

Did you spend any time in the hospital as a tiny infant?

Hi, funny you should ask Lavender. I found out I was raised by my grandmother for about the first year of life because my mom "could not handle it". I figure she was depressed or stressed out having a baby. So of course I never bonded to my Mother.

Other thing is I never wanted children from age 14 which is when I really found out "where babies came from". I thought it was really awful and decided I never wanted any.

Thruout the years, I dated 3 men who wanted kids and dumped them when I found out they were not like me.

I had the tubal because I was afraid of messing with birth control. Starting to have sex at age 27, I had to use two or three forms of birth control at once and I was still afraid to accidently get pregnant because I really did not want to have an abortion.

But I was MORE afraid of actually getting pregnant and HAVING a baby and having to raise it for 20 years. I knew that for me, that would be a total prison. My whole life would be ruined.

I could not really relax and enjoy sex (without fear of pregnancy) until my tubal ligation at age 33. I was dating a really nice engineer and he taught me all about sex and gave emotional and support after my tubal.

The tubal ligation was a snap as I HAD RESEARCHED ALL ABOUT IT BEFORE THE OPERATION. And I insisted my surgeon do it with NO general anesthesia. So the tubal took 15 minutes and I was awake during the procedure but on light drugs. And was home 3 hours later. Two days later I was back at work and I never had any pain.

I dated the engineer for three years and then met another engineer/software genius.

I really fell in love with him. He claimed to NOT want children (I told him I did not want them) but two years into the relationship he admitted that he had lied, that he really DID want children. So I had to break up with him, as much as I loved him, because I did not want to stop him from getting what he wanted. And I was certainly not going to change my mind about kids nor get my "bravely done tubal ligation" reversed for something I did not want. Some women do this just to snag a man, as sad as that is, but I was honest and knew this man was not right for me.

Add me to the list of people who thinks baba would make a good mother. The fact that you don't want to be a mother...doesn't change that either. Children definitely complicate life...mine certainly did. But one thing that isn't often spoken about is that those changes...and complications...trials and tribulations....can bring about a "growth" of spirit that is very unique. Selflessness is just as important as selfishness....and neither of them is all bad or all good. I'm not saying that selflessness is ONLY learned by bearing children...of course there are other ways....but it might be the FASTEST way LOL.

Well, thank you you all! I guess maybe it would be possible to be "good at something" even if you have "no desire" to actually do that thing.

Nice to know I perhaps would not be a bad mother.

But I will never be finding out either way. The closest thing I will and have come to being a mom is a "mom to my two cats" and babysitting for years and recently my friend's child once in a while.

That is it for me.

Thinking of becoming a mother for 20 years gives me a trapped feeling sort of as if I were placed in prison for 20 years in a 9 by 5 cell (yet I was actually innocent) and there was no parole.

I guess I would do OK and cope and learn to live with it but it would not be something I would ever choose.

<small>[ January 27, 2004, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>