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#2432388 10/05/10 03:44 PM
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Went a little outside normal forum etiquette. So, I'll start again:

*big breath* this is going to be a monster.

First post. I'm used to posting, I'm a forum junkie.

I am 32 years old with three children, and we have just passed our 11th wedding anniversary. It was the hardest day of my life...

My wife and I met at the end of our junior year of high school. For me, it was pretty much love at first sight. Something about her drew me to her like nothing I had ever experienced in my young life at that time. I was 17, and she was 16 and had been involved in a horrible situation with a 24 year-old when we met.

We dated for a short while, before my total adoration of her frightened her and she turned me away. Summer passed, and a new school year had began. I did everything I could to ignore her and erase her existence from my memory. She watched me from afar, and resolved to get me back.

We started dating again in November. In January, we celebrated her 18th birthday. My in-laws... well, they were overly liberal, involved in drugs and drinking, and there was a lot of liquor at the birthday party. We both got very intoxicated. Her ex, the aforementioned 24 year-old showed up and her, I, and her brother took off with him, went for a drive, then ended up back at her house. Her mother was at the house the party was at. I passed out. Her ex took her in the other room and took advantage of her in her intoxicated state.

It was painful, but our relationship was new, we were young, and we were both drunk out of our minds. She told me about it, and I told her I could move past it. It wasn't easy, but I did.

A few months later, she was pregnant with our first daughter. She was born November of that year when I had just turned 19, and she was 18.

She moved in with me, and I got a job at a grocery store. I told her at that time that I didn't think that just because we had a child together we should get married, though I did love her completely even then.

I was promoted to checker within a few months, a job which payed well. A little more than 2 years later, she was pregnant again, and we decided to marry. We married September 25th, 1999 - the day after my 21st birthday. To this day it was the happiest day of my life. I was so overtaken with emotion, I could hardly speak my vows.

After our second daughter was born, my wife started becoming a little withdrawn. She was now working full time, and we had two small children, so I understood. She was now not just wife, but a working woman, and a mother. We were doing well, we always had fun and talked, but she was withdrawn with sex and basic affection.

After our second daughter, she also went on Depo for birth control. This was another thing that both she and I had attributed to her withdrawal. She was on Depo for 7 years. During that time, as she withdrew I would fight and pull her out of the murk.

In 2004, we agreed that I should go back to school, and I started back to college while working full time. Going to College is a fairly daunting task, working full time makes it harder, and fighting to keep a marriage happy on top of it makes it all simply exhausting.

In 2006, we decided to have one last child. We always stated we didn't want to have any more after we were 30. Our youngest of three daughters was born in December of 2007.

We now had three children, I was still chipping away at school, and we were both working full time. It was a recipe for disaster.

The weight and stress of school, work, three children, and fighting through my own unmet needs while trying to meet the needs of my wife eventually collapsed on me.

I was not performing well at work and was on the verge of being fired, and I failed all of my classes. I was in a severe depression. School was my ticket for an easier life for myself and my family, so I quit my job. But I had also given up on much more. I no longer had enough "gas" to keep our relationship alive on my own. When I would try to talk to her about things, she started reacting with statements like "Are you in a depression again?"

I was physically, emotionally, and mentally drained. I was suspended from school for a year due to my grades, and I had to get a new job. I spent a month mostly in bed just trying to get my head back up.

I started a new job at minimum wage, and in a few months was working graveyard shift full time. I had worked graveyard on and off for the 10 years I had been at the grocery store, so it wasn't an issue at first. In the fall, I started back to school. In March of 2009, my wife and I took a trip to Las Vegas for a week for our 10th anniversary.

We reconnected very well on that trip. I always felt that we loved each other very much, even though she was not very effective at showing me affection. I had a spark of hope because of that trip.

Back home, things went back to normal, but I still had that hope. In December, I finished my associate's degree.

Then, horror. In early February, we went to a party for my brother-in-law's 50th birthday. My wife and I were drinking. There was a little spat - I told her that I loved her so much that sometimes it hurt. She didn't understand how that works, and I asked her how she thought it could be, she replied "I know that I can be very cold to you."

My wife is a very beautiful woman, and a beautiful person, and has always enjoyed someone flirting with her. I asked her if my adoration was enough, and she stated flatly "No."

At the end of the night, we had an argument, and I heard things no person wants to hear; "I think we married too young, I think we are just together because of the kids." She also brought up male friends she had before we got together (whom she had physical involvement with) and said she felt like I didn't let her have friends.

I was broken. That morning, I tried to examine anything and everything that I was failing to do as a husband and father. That day, I began to change it all. I also started applying to Nursing programs to finish school.

She was shut off. The only time I got any type of emotional reaction from her at all is when I asked her if I should leave.

Two weeks in, she was still shut down and unresponsive. She had even stayed the night with a friend from work to get away. She told me not to call or text, and she wanted me to just let her miss me. She called and texted me some that night, but then left me cold suddenly. One night, I grabbed her phone and looked at her texts to see if she had said anything to anyone. I simply believed our marriage was over and just needed proof.

I saw one text about something possibly happening the night she stayed at her friend's, and a vehement denial.I also noticed a short and simple text, nothing crazy, just something about music. Then curiosity hit me. I got on the computer, and checked the phone records. I had no idea you could see text records.

I took her phone, and put names to numbers. I noticed one name, the name of one of her coworkers popped up constantly. The night she stayed at her friends, it went until 5AM, and picked up again at 9AM.

I confronted her about the texting, I asked her if she had been texting someone a lot, and spending a lot of work time with them. She knew she was caught for that, and didn't deny it. The next night, when I got home from work, I checked her phone again. I saw a text to her sister about me confronting her, and that while I couldn't see what was in the texts, she was "still busted."

I confronted her again. She admitted that they had kissed. She said he tried to kiss her, and she stopped him. But then she followed him later and kissed him.

After this admission, she finally became responsive. Things from her side turned around totally. I was hurt, but I tried to put my best foot forward as much as I could. But I knew it couldn't have just been kissing...

For months I asked if anything else had happened, and she denied it. I was reading anything and everything I could, trying to find help, trying to find answers. I skimmed over MB a few times.

Somehow I knew that if the line had been crossed, it was more than just a kiss. Finally, at the end of July, I somehow found the loose brick in the wall she had built. We were texting back and forth, and I asked her what she needed from me to be happy, she told me "just you," my reply was honestly and faithfulness.

The next day at work, by her account, she was like a zombie. It was time to face up. When I picked her up, she looked exhausted. Then, when we got home, I heard the dreaded words "We need to talk." She finally admitted that they had slept together during lunch breaks at work, though she first made me promise that I wouldn't leave her.

I don't know if it was shock, I don't know if it was because somehow I KNEW something had to have happened, I don't know if my care and love for her overtook everything else at first, but for the first few weeks all I could do was to reassure her, and make sure she was OK.

Then, it finally hit me. Pain, anger, sadness. Through everything my wife had been my rock, even when she wasn't.

When I shut down, there was no longer anyone fighting for our marriage. She had never done it, and didn't know how. She had never had to try for my attention, and didn't know how to show me affection.

A 24 year-old at work started flirting with her, and at the beginning this year started pushing harder and harder, and she went right along with it.

She tells me she feels like she had lost me, and for the most part, she is right. I had fought for so long, that in my mind and heart, I had given up. I stopped fighting, I stopped talking, I stopped trying. When I stopped fighting for my own needs, I stopped meeting hers.

At this point, I don't even know where I'm going any more, but it feels good to get this out SOMEWHERE. Some of our family know just a part of the story, but I haven't really had anywhere to turn with all of this but to her.

Thankfully, he is gone. However, his sister still works with my wife, and my wife's place of work now just serves as a reminder to me.

I am in school, and doing the best I can despite dealing with this at the same time, which makes concentrating very difficult.

I'm 3 months in to knowing the truth, and for the most part I have more good days than bad. My wife is a different person than she has been in a long time.

But, I find myself feeling guilty. I feel guilty because I hurt, because I'm angry. Even on good days, sometimes there is this low hum of sickness in my heart. It's like having a ring in your ear. And sometimes it just builds until it overwhelms me.

I have a relationship many people would envy, but what it took, what it has cost to get here is a price I wish I never had to pay...


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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So.... what is your question?


Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
Arpeggi #2432442 10/05/10 05:47 PM
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You know, I wish I had a question. I really do.

For the most part, I think I just needed to lay things out on the table.

For the most part, the whole thing kind of came off as "ideal."

He moved out of state to go to school in March, and there is no contact. So that part was kind of done for me.

FWS and I have worked through a the questionnaires and read a lot from this site.

The main thing I deal with is hurt. Hurt and anger. Most of the time I can be happy and move forward, at others, it bubbles up and I am guilty of LB's.

Not so much a question, but just a chance to be heard by people who know and understand. People who don't have a direct investment but can be supportive. It's the one thing that I am lacking.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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HHH,

He moved out of state to go to school in March, and there is no contact. So that part was kind of done for me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your wife has not expressed remorse for what she did and felt justified in having her affairs. Does your wife also know that just talking / emailing, these OM and other ex's is bad, very bad, for her marriage and children?

Am I correct there have been 3 OM, starting with the 24 year old who committed statutory rape.

The main thing I deal with is hurt. Hurt and anger. Most of the time I can be happy and move forward, at others, it bubbles up and I am guilty of LB's.

Possibly because you sense that your wife has hid much more from you?

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma #2432511 10/06/10 08:25 AM
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My wife has expressed remorse, when she finally told the whole truth. There was no remorse from the discovery of the relationship until the revelation of the extent. Maybe that is what stunted me.

So, yes, I probably feel that more has been hidden from me.

There were only two OM - a one night stand at her 18th birthday, and the most recent which was in total maybe a month, month and a half.

I feel bad right now because I see her remorse... but I can't feel it. I can see her pain and her shame, but it's like my heart or my head won't accept it. It just bounces off me.

I've read over the "forgive & forget" columns here, and I'm still just stuck. I want to forgive her, but I don't even know what that means right now.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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You can only forgive her if she offers just compensation (you've probably already read this, but it's worth re-reading):

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley
the person asking to be forgiven must first demonstrate an awareness of how inconsiderate the act was and how much pain his or her spouse was made to suffer. Second, he or she must express some plan to assure the forgiver that steps have been taken to avoid the painful act in the future. Extraordinary precautions to never see or talk to the former lover, and to avoid circumstances that might ignight a new affair should be part of the plan for recovery. And another part of the plan is for both spouses to meet each other's unmet emotional needs that may have given the unfaithful spouse a "reason" to be unfaithful. As it turns out, it's the successful completion of that plan that's the compensation that leads to "forgiveness." Learning to meet each other's most important emotional needs is the plan that usually does the trick.
...
When you discovered your [wife's] affair, you learned two things about [her] that you had not known before. You learned that [she] would make decisions that did not take your feelings into account (having the affair), and you learned that [she] would lie about [her] behavior to cover it up. In other words, you learned that [she] was not following the Policy of Joint Agreement or the Policy of Radical Honesty. That discovery was undoubtedly very disillusioning to you. Who wants to be married to a [woman] who is inconsiderate and dishonest?

Now you are trying to create a new understanding with your [wife], where [she] will agree to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty. Good for you! Apparently, [she] has not yet agreed to these important issues, and that has a great deal to do with your reluctance to forgive [her]. I'm sure you will not find forgiveness in your heart until [she] agrees to be honest with you, and to take your feelings into account in the future.


Start living the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty today, and eventually forgiveness will be hers. But she's the one who creates that forgiveness by how she acts and compensates you. You can't forgive her even if you try. She must gain forgiveness herself. It's not that she's "earning" it... you're simply incapable of forgiveness until you know she's doing everything she can to repair what she broke, and she does that over a period of time sufficient to repair her depleted balance in your Love Bank.


Doormat_No_More
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Yeah. We have read through a lot of the stuff on this site together.

I started printing them out, underlining or highlighting parts that stuck out or I felt really applied to us, and then giving it to her to read.

We would then discuss it, with her telling me what parts she really felt important.

We have done the PHQ, the LBQ, the ENQ, and all the articles we have read and discussed have been put together in a binder.

Going over SH's articles, some things are so true, and some are strange.

The only reason it wasn't me who had an affair, is because I knew fully well I was capable of it. I had faced the temptation before.

I went through a period of about 6 years without my needs being met before I finally gave up on meeting hers. The only thing she knows about why she couldn't meet my needs, is she feels she put everything else in life before me.

The PJA and PRH are in our binder as well. Since instituting these things, I have told her about things from my childhood that NOBODY has ever known.

The whole process is startling, and at times amusing. One night, we lay in bed and told each other our whole life stories. Not that we didn't know them, not that we hadn't told each other the same stories over and over and over through the years, but it was like we were beginning again.

I am thankful for that. Sometimes I wish that it could be just that easy. Just toss away the old and start over.

It's just that there are too many good memories to do that.

I don't know how we got where we ended up. I must not have known how to communicate correctly, and she feels she didn't know how to communicate at all. She feels she didn't know how to meet my needs, either.

By the time she was ready to fight, I was already in a state of withdrawal. We went over the stages of marriage again last night to confirm it.

It was pretty much on-the-mark. When she finally tried to meet my needs, I was unreceptive. In fact, I was so closed off, I can hardly recall when she tried.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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As a note: NC was partially built-in to the A. The OW was in his last months working there when it occurred. He left March 13, 2010 for another state.

Also; I hunted down his 21-year-old GF on Myspace and sent her a message explaining the A and some details. This lead to some exposure when the OM's sister, who works with my wife, was being questioned to validate my claim.

OM's GF wanted my FWW to call her to confirm, but we resisted that. I told her that it was now up to OM to be truthful with her, and told her that she could work through it if he could learn to be honest. I then cut off communication, and deleted my W and I's myspace pages.

My W didn't cut off complete contact at first, the addiction and denial made her mind think that if she could change the idea to a "friendship," it would invalidate the A. It was her thinking then, though she now knows better.

I was going to just let things die naturally, and wait till he left, but a few weeks before it happened I popped.

I told her that if she didn't cut contact to an absolute minimum (only what was required to carry out work tasks) that I was going to walk.

Up until that time, her mindset resisted cutting him out. In my mind, at that time, cutting him out BEFORE he left on his own was a sign of respect to me, and to our marriage.

I even saw a few texts where she complained about my insisting on cutting him out to a friend. Fortunately, the friend has a good head on her shoulders and told her that what I was asking was the right thing to do.

More later, gotta get off to Nursing lab. Potluck today and I made enchiladas!

Woooo!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: HeadHeldHigh
Going over SH's articles, some things are so true, and some are strange.


What things seem strange to you?

Quote:
The only reason it wasn't me who had an affair, is because I knew fully well I was capable of it. I had faced the temptation before.


Same situation we were in. I knew I was entirely capable of falling in love with another woman, and was extremely careful with how I managed my friendships as a result. My wife didn't know that she was. In fact, on D-Day, she said "I never thought that I would be the one to ruin a perfectly good marriage". We both know better now.

Focus on what you have now, today, and what you'll have in the future. Recovering from an affair requires a now-centered and future-centered relationship. If you start focusing on the past, you'll never get past it because you can't change it.

Quote:
The PJA and PRH are in our binder as well. Since instituting these things, I have told her about things from my childhood that NOBODY has ever known.


But has she done the same for you? That's what's needed for just compensation: it has to go both ways. She needs to be completely honest about who, when, what, where, and how as it relates to the affair. It will be difficult for her to do, but worth it.

Questions "why" it happened are really easy for you both to answer without disrespectful judgments. Think of the affair in terms of exclusive need-meeting, Love Bank balances, and Contrast Effect (what one partner experiences when they compare their spouse to something else, like a lover or pornography). "Why" it happened is contained in that framework very well.

Quote:
I don't know how we got where we ended up. I must not have known how to communicate correctly, and she feels she didn't know how to communicate at all. She feels she didn't know how to meet my needs, either.


It's not a failure of communication, though. It's a failure to meet one another's needs and refrain from doing things that make one another unhappy. Communication is just one of those.

However, knowing how to communicate your needs is very important. Here are some tricks we use.

"I love it when" statements to remind our spouse what we really like and what deposits lots of Love Units.

"I'd love it if" statements to remind our spouse of a Love Buster they've just engaged in.

"I'd like to negotiate about this" or "Let's brainstorm about this" when we're not enthusiastic about something your spouse has suggested. And occasional "we're brainstorming here" reminders if a spouse starts shooting down ideas, rather than doing it the right way: identifying the ideas you like, not focusing on the ones you don't.

Quote:
In fact, I was so closed off, I can hardly recall when she tried.


Have you guys bought any of the books yet?

I'd strongly, strongly recommend purchasing a copy of "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley and Jennifer Harley Chalmers. Read it aloud together. Worth its weight in gold -- literally -- to a marriage recovering from an affair. It explains why they happen, how they happen, how they end, how they SHOULD end, and is an excellent roadmap for how to recover.


Doormat_No_More
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I think you would of better served if you had let WW have a one time phone call with the BGF. She needed more proof. You denied her that proof. This could of been done with NC with the OM. You can not count on the OMS to not lie for her brother.

TheRoad #2432756 10/06/10 05:15 PM
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Thanks for the responses all.

The situation with the OMGF is pretty contorted. The OMS is buying her brother's denial due to the fact that they are a pretty dysfunctional family.

The lie is that my WW is only lying to me about having a PA to "get a reaction out of me."

The OMGF is a 22 year old. We avoided contact because we sensed it would have been nothing but a name-calling match, and immature games which we didn't want involvement in. Not to mention my timing with doing this was kind of a setback, as I didn't go for contact until a month after D-Day. She is pregnant, as well.

We have discussed contrast effect somewhat. This year she spent new year's eve without me, as I had to work. We discussed how the contrast effect works, and agreed that nothing like this will go on going forward from here.

I have pretty much every detail I can get, or care to have about the PA, and we have dissected what happened to our relationship to make her vulnerable, and the behaviors she had that made her vulnerable.

She was the victim of a philanderer, however, it was her choices and actions that allowed it to happen. In fact, for her part once the door was open she welcomed it.

Reading through items on this site, we discovered exactly how she opened that door, the first fatal mistake: she told him she was thinking about him. That was all the excuse he needed, and then he was on her full bore.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Originally Posted By: HeadHeldHigh
We have discussed contrast effect somewhat. This year she spent new year's eve without me, as I had to work.


It seems to me that, typically, women intuitively understand contrast effect much better than men do. They sense it more the older they get because they understand how important Physical Appearance is to most men. That's why pornography is so offensive to most women. It's two of a man's typical most important needs -- physical appearance plus sexual fulfillment -- and someone other than them is fulfilling those needs. And women can't help but know that they suffer in comparison to that fantasy.

To many women, indulgence in pornography by their husbands is nearly as destructive as adultery because of the contrast effect.

It's at work any time you're comparing your spouse to a member of the opposite sex. And unfortunately, it deducts Love Units from your spouse's account in your heart without their knowledge or consent. That's why so many waywards give the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech: Contrast Effect has lowered the Love Bank balance of their spouse to a "caring" type of love, rather than a romantic type of love. In contrast to the balance their lover holds, it doesn't feel like love with the spouse anymore.

Quote:
Reading through items on this site, we discovered exactly how she opened that door, the first fatal mistake: she told him she was thinking about him. That was all the excuse he needed, and then he was on her full bore.


It's convenient to paint our wives as the victims of the men manipulating them. In fact, I often thought it was only because the OM was so incompetent at seduction that he never "sealed the deal" with my wife. But it's important for me to remember she willingly went along with it, and if circumstances were the same, it would happen all over again. That's why extraordinary precautions are so important: so that circumstances can never be the same again.


Doormat_No_More
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Totally agree.

She was vulnerable because I was no longer meeting her needs. I wasn't willing to meet her needs because she had not met mine for so long that I was in withdrawal. I no longer tried to meet her needs, and no longer allowed her to meet mine.

In our situation, the OM was around for about 7 months before anyone.

Tumbler one in the lock was turned because he was always there at work with her. They took lunches and breaks together. I was working nights, gone when she was sleeping and asleep when she got home.

Tumbler two was turned in January, when he got her cell phone number for work related communication, and then proceeded to turn it into other conversation.

Tumbler number three was turned shortly after that, when she let him know that he was "in her head." He had his opening, and began pushing boundaries, and she did not defend those boundaries.

Now, that could be enough, but for me it gets worse. His first truly physical move was to try to kiss her. She deflected that advance. And then she was the one advancing.

He then started planting the idea of sex, had a location and a time. She fought it in word only. He took her to the location, and while she verbally denied that she would sleep with him, she went in anyway to kiss him.

After the first time, there was no fight. Every time she worked with him after that, they spent their lunches having sex. 30 minute lunch, 10-15 minutes travel time, time to grab something to eat, eat it, and smoke a cigarette before returning to work.

I have been crushed for 5 minute quickies.

What I'm told was the drive was "a high, a rush." What I'm told is that there was no drive to "be with him" or no actual emotional attachment, but an infatuation.

I understand that the pull was that he was meeting needs that I was not. But intellect and emotion are bad flat mates.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Yup.

So, I'm dumping a lot of brain trash here.

I encountered in my reading someone with *gasp* more similarities.


The final straw for me, the last EN that ended up being LB'd instead of met, was admiration. AFF and SF were always in a swinging limbo before that.

I had been LB'd to death by IB/AH for a long time before I caved. I was second choice long before there was any OM. Television stole my wife. Whatever. I didn't do much better.

Always been a gamer. It filled my time while she watched late afternoon TV. It filled my time while she watched reality shows at night. It filled my time until everything else was checked off her list, and I could get some time.

When I lost her admiration, the people I played with took her place. They were always happy to see me on, always looking forward to having me around again. I felt wanted, I felt admired.

She tells me she feels like I had an affair with a game.

I don't argue. No excuse for her, but I see her point.

I shut out all activity outside of the home. I had always went and watched movies with my friend here and there. When I broke, I went nowhere.

I was absorbed with the game, but I also didn't want to leave the house because I didn't wanted to miss those little glimpses, those opportunities. When she called, I wanted to be right here.

She didn't know how to call...

Aaaaaaaaaaaanyway... brain trash out.

My main purpose here is to just get it all out.

I'm too dang analytical, and I turn everything over and examine it, and disassemble it, and see how it works, and think of how and why it works.

It's gears in my head clicking and grinding away. It makes me a good problem solver, it will work well when I get my license. In regular life, however it's a curse.


In all honesty, things are going good. I got started here because I had no outlet. The roller coaster wears me out, and I can't imagine what it does to her.

It just seems like she's so much better than me at looking forward and focusing on being happy. Maybe that's her side of the coin. I don't know. I admire it and resent it in the same breath.

I have asked her to admit the A to our respective parents. For me, it feels like finally letting that cat out of the bag is important to claiming full responsibility.

I am worried about telling my dad, though. I am the youngest of 4, and all 3 of my other siblings have been through divorce. Not to mention that my parents are divorced.

Quote for the day; "Depression isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign that you've been strong for too long."


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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H3 - are you still gaming? Is she still watching TV?

Are you getting your 20+ hours of time together meeting the 4 intimate ENs: Aff, Convo, SF, and RC?

It sounds like you developed separate recreational activities that created two parallel but diverging independent lives. In order to prevent that happening, you have to develop common interests and activities that bring you two together.

Have you two done the Recreational Enjoyment Inventory?


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
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Vibrissa #2432919 10/07/10 09:22 AM
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Sweet! Thanks for the link! We haven't done that one yet.

Nope. I'm not gaming any more. I quit outright as soon as we had our first argument, before I knew about anything more.

She still watches TV, but at this time it's usually only if I'm busy doing my homework for school.

We have a lot of UA - every day when she gets home from work, or I get home from school, we spend an hour or two in our bedroom away from the kids, lying there and talking.

RC is a little tough due to my going to school and her work, but we do what we can. We both love to watch movies, and have netflix, so we watch a movie here and there. Last week we did the regional fair - we went to a concert (Collective Soul, yay!) for a bit, and then walked around for a while.

Aff - I was great at this until I shut down, but she had some work to do. She told me about this early on, before I started REALLY reading on MB, and I wrote her a letter containing things she could do to show me affection. She's become pretty adept here - it's now second nature instead of effort.

SF - most of the time there is no problem here. I had trouble having it met before because I felt a lack of connection and/or desire from her (which in my mind means it probably wasn't met for her). It was always spotty before; most of the time great, but sometimes she was so disconnected it just made me feel horrible, selfish, and pathetic. Now it's AMAZING, and sometimes it's like we are 17 all over again... 2, 3 times a day... I don't know how I keep up.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: HeadHeldHigh
SF - most of the time there is no problem here. I had trouble having it met before because I felt a lack of connection and/or desire from her (which in my mind means it probably wasn't met for her). It was always spotty before; most of the time great, but sometimes she was so disconnected it just made me feel horrible, selfish, and pathetic. Now it's AMAZING, and sometimes it's like we are 17 all over again... 2, 3 times a day... I don't know how I keep up.


This could be something known as Hysterical Bonding - you two attempting to reconnect after the trauma of the affair. Don't be surprised if it tapers off some but don't let it disappear. Ensure that it is given priority, especially as it is probably a high need of yours.

Women need two things to desire sex: an intimate connection with their partner, and the assurance they will enjoy themselves. Meeting her ENs creates the connection and I'm sure you can figure out how to get her to enjoy herself smile.


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Originally Posted By: HeadHeldHigh
Nope. I'm not gaming any more. I quit outright as soon as we had our first argument, before I knew about anything more.


Good call. I am sometimes amazed my wife stayed with me during my online gaming fascination (addiction? fetish? whatever?). The trouble with them, from my point of view, is that your heart doesn't know the difference between a virtual life-saving experience and a real one. People deposit love units all the same. And that's what, I think, those who go overboard in MMORPGs are really experiencing: they are getting their emotional needs met by strangers and it's quite a rush.

Quote:
Now it's AMAZING, and sometimes it's like we are 17 all over again... 2, 3 times a day... I don't know how I keep up.


Be aware that this is a symptom of "hysterical bonding" most of us experience shortly after an affair ends. It usually lasts 3-9 months. It's a good thing, but there will probably come a day you won't feel like jumping each other all the time as your comfort level with one another settles in again. Keep the love bank balances high and you'll still have sex regularly -- it's my top EN, and that of many men, too -- but probably at reduced frequency compared to the pace you're keeping during Hysterical Bonding.


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Thanks for taking the wind out of my sails, guys!

No, just kidding. I was aware of this, though I kind of put things into a different context. I kind of looked at it like falling all over again, and that leading to the insatiable drive.

I know it will wear off eventually. However, even at the worst, quantity wasn't the issue. Physically, quality wasn't the issue. I haven't quite discovered what the initial issue with her was, other than her focus just wasn't on us. I know what it was over the past 2 years.

My issue was the willingness vs desire - and what seemed to me a lack of desire causing that need to not be met.

Anyway, while I was reading and typing this up, I was talking to her on the phone. Just talking about how her day is going so far, coming up with a plan to address her not feeling well.

She informed me that there WILL BE some SF need meeting tonight. I had to giggle. She's been working early and not feeling well. I'm so used to the any and every excuse to not have that need met, that I think there is a part of me that denies that she needs it met, too. Or that she is overextending to meet my need.

I should be thankful that she is willing to try. I guess I need to explain to her that when she says "Even if I just have to lay there" detaches the F. No. I don't want you to just lay there.

It has been 2 days, which for the past 7 months is about the longest stretch it ever gets to before she intervenes. I admit, I purposely let it go sometimes. Part of my need is for her to initiate, or to voice the desire.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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"People deposit love units all the same. And that's what, I think, those who go overboard in MMORPGs are really experiencing: they are getting their emotional needs met by strangers and it's quite a rush."

I agree vehemently. It's exactly what it was. I needed to feel wanted and admired, and she quit doing that for me. My guildmates, well they would cheer for my appearance.

She told me how it would hurt that I would wake up early sometimes to play the game, but I didn't wake up early for her. And she's right. I was in withdrawal, she had somehow bounced out into conflict, and didn't know what to do, she just knew that she ranked below a computer game.

Meh.

The contrast, however, is this; playing games wasn't an IB/AH of mine, for her, until I gave it all my time. She doesn't care if I play a game here or there. I don't have interest in it right now, because I have too many other interests. My marriage, my kids, my education. No time for games.

I, however, would care very much if she started hanging out with someone new, or texting someone new.

In that respect, where I disappeared to and where she disappeared to are VERY different.

Went and had lunch with her on her break at work. It's been a pretty steady habit since... oh, some time in March.

I tried starting it earlier, but got blocked on it one day, because it was a day that OM worked. I knew something was up, but at the time didn't quite call it out.

Again, meh.

Got an appointment and a band concert for DD12 tonight. Then DW is requesting a back rub.

Kinda feel like a whiner. I look at all the time, and trouble, and pain people face here. They keep their heads up and keep pushing.

Here I am b****ing and moaning about 1 PA that lasted 3-4 weeks, tops. I have a wife that is totally on board to setting it right.

/facepalm


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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