I've decided to change my name here in case my H reads this Board.

I don't think he'd react well to what I've written here and things would just get more difficult.

I'm sorry you are hurting. I was reading your post and it reminded me of my XH. When I asked him to meet some need or another - he used to just say that I married the wrong person. When I asked him if his drinking was going to destroy our marriage he responded "probably". When he told me he was a sexual predator - I was dumbstruck.

I guess what I'm saying is that these men are telling us their truth. I never wanted to believe him - but I should have.

Hang in there...every week will get a little better. Happiness is there for the taking - choose it for yourself.

SB...I respect your decision to change your name, but I think you are obsessing again, to be honest. I think you're spending too much time daydreaming about what you'd like him to do - and that's to take an interest in reconciling and figuring out what you need to get back together.

It would make you feel better to know that he's interested enough in what's making you so resolute - enough to scout out marriage forums looking for you...I think that's natural to want that.

And now you're worrying that what you've posted will decrease your chances of reconciliation if he sees what you've written. Would you post differently, less truthfully from the beginning, if you knew he'd see it for sure? That's the mindset that put you back in the marriage with no improvements 6 years ago!

SB...he knows how to contact you. He has chosen, chosen not to. I know that hurts. I'm sorry. Sometimes people hurt us with their words and actions...sometimes they hurt us with what they don't say and don't do.

Well, he always said if I ever left him again, that would be it.

He has enough to deal with, fighting his illness. He didn't want to deal with my unhappiness too. Now we will fall into the "marriages that break up due to a chronic illness of one of the spouses" and he will tell everyone that that's the reason I left. I will forever more be the bad person. And sometimes I really believe that I am, and wonder if all this heartache of leaving is truly worth it.

I wonder if the rules change when a spouse has an illness. Does that mean they're no longer responsible for contributing in any way to the marriage. Do they get a pass on bad behaviour ( when it's not caused by mental decline)?

I think instead of focusing on what he thinks/says/does/will do, it'd be good to focus on making your life better, and of course being able to speak your mind honestly would fall into that category. If you can't be free to really be yourself, what good is it?

I finally sent H a note asking him to contact a lawyer and begin work on a separation agreement. He's been NC since I left and I really don't know whether it's because he is furious, trying to delay things or using it as a tactic to manipulate my feelings in some way.

I sent the note this am but am afraid to look to see if he's responded. How pathetic is that?

He wrote back yesterday and asked what I thought should be included in the separation agreement. Still a very unemotional tone in his notes.

I am feeling very weary already and the D proces is just starting. He also mentioned he is now in a wheelchair a good part of the time and that he is concerned about being impoverished. We are in very good shape in that area so
I don't know why he said that except to make me feel worse. Besides I am quite prepared to take less than my share if it makes a difference to his long term needs.

Never asked how I am doing.

He also mentioned he is now in a wheelchair a good part of the time and that he is concerned about being impoverished. We are in very good shape in that area so
I don't know why he said that except to make me feel worse.

Sit down today and figure out what you want physically and financially and give that wording back to him.

I would not respond to the remarks about being in a wheelchair verbatim. That will show him that you read it and that it affected you. He needs to accept for his own good that the marriage and the idea of you living with him is out of reach.

What you could do, however, is remind him that his physical care will not be compromised by the divorce, and the (fill in the blank...caregivers/agencies) are well equipped to handle any fluctuations in his health.

This divorce is a formality. He divorced you romantically and emotionally years ago...many years ago, in fact. You deserve better. Salvage the rest of your life and wish the man well. He could have helped to fortify and strengthen the marriage when he was healthier. He CHOSE not to. Those decisions he made were made consciously. He was given plenty of warning, fully knowing the possibilities of his declining health and knowing the possibility of divorce. He chose to take you for granted and bank on your sympathy.

You were not his employee; you were his wife. Somewhere along the line, I think he forgot that fact.

You know, skyblue - I'm angry for you that he would try and manipulate you that way...(Sigh)

I would also remind him somehow that there is no hope for the relationship, your decision is made and final, and that if he ever loved you at all, he will accept that you need to salvage at least some happiness for yourself and wish you well. You gave up children. You gave up a sex life. You gave up much happiness for this man. That is not what marriage is - a long stream of sacrifices and little else.

Thanks Soolee, you speak the truth about my marriage. Thinking about it fills me with sadness and regret. Both H and I have lost alot of happiness over the years. I was so in love when I married him and to this day have a hard time dealing with his big and small rejections of me over the years. He's now going to be facing his 60's and beyond alone with a crippling illness.
I have to start over at this stage of my life, and will have to spend alot of time in therapy no doubt trying to reach some degree of healing.

I've been doing alot of reading on narcissism and stbxh fits the pattern. It would explain alot about his sense of entitlement, lack of empathy for me and lack of emotion re our divorce.

I'll take your points and use them in my response to him. I think the only thing he's really concerned about is the money and keeping as much as he can.

Me 58;him 61 -- stbx was EA and PA with me
married 35 plus
separated 3/31/2010

Please, PLEASE, do not let him emotionally manipulate you. Let the state set the guidelines for fair recompense or support and offer no more. He is responsible for himself, not you. What would he do with his finances and disability if he had not met you? He would not be your problem then and he will not be your problem when you are divorced. The man makes me seethe just hearing it! I despise people who hide behind their disability and use it to manipulate. I have a sister who is Quadriplegic so I am well accustomed to disabilities.

He knows that saying these things to me, even in a dispassionate way, will send me spinning. And of course I am upset to hear about all this. He was having some prostate trouble last year so I'm wondering the worst now re his hospital stay next month.

I'd also like to get some personal things out of the house we shared while he's away but don't know how to approach him on that. Legally, it is still my/our house, but I am afraid how I'll feel being there again after seven months out.

I wish I could disconnect, but despite all the things I've read about detaching, it's not working real well for me. Even thinking about the many unkind things he did to me over the years doesn't help. I don't know what will.

Well...one thing to consider is your living arrangement. I can't remember - are you living with your mother? Is it possible for you to move farther away? Maybe some physical distance would help. Maybe you could move both you and your mother farther south. It's a thought. Florida caters to the elderly...

Another thing to consider is that divorce is like death. I believe I've read in different places that it takes about 2 years - 2 years of getting through holidays, etc. to feel more accepting of all of it. It could be, that you're just expecting too much out of yourself too soon.

And the third thing is to go over in your head worst case scenarios. Lets say he's in the hospital. So...you go and let yourself in to get your things. What's the absolute worst thing that would happen? Are people going to pop out of closets with handcuffs to cuff you to the banister, telling you that you can never leave again? No. Is it likely that while he's away you would move all your stuff back in? No. Of course not.

You'll be okay. Take a friend. Make plans for after you retrieve your things. Dinner out, dinner in at your place, or whatever, but plan the whole day out and don't make the visit to retrieve things as the primary item of the day. Just a quick stop to get your things. Period.

Once the divorce is done and the legalities are taken care of, his care lined up, if it were me...I'd think about moving farther away - to start over. Really.

Hi

We're already separated by 300 miles and a six hour drive. Moving isn't really an option for my Mom, as her health is alittle fragile now.

I know what I need to do is accept that I'm going to have alot of emotions for a long time. I'm going to feel sad for H, sad for me and sad for the people affected by our separation/D. I may never get over it totally. And I have to live with the knowledge that he'll be travelling dwon the road of illness alone, quite possibly. I've always been a caretaker and a nurturer, so the thought of this happening to H is very distressing.

I do wish I knew how H was really feeling. If he's relieved to be out of the M -- that might help me get past this alittle easier.

I do wish I knew how H was really feeling.

You could certainly ask him, but you also need to ask yourself why you need to know, ask yourself if it's worth it, and be prepared for whatever response he gives you. I'd do it via email if you do.

If he says more or less good riddance, then you might be able to handle it better. However, what if he says that he's sorry for the past, wishes he could have given you more of himself, children, etc., how will you react? Will you be resolute, or will you run back and forgive him and take care of him until he dies?

He may also express fear of handling his illness without you. Offering his feelings of the impending divorce from a patient's perspective would also be telling.

You could then tell him that you were hoping to hear his feelings from a husband's perspective versus a patient's.

Historically he has been manipulative and plays the MS card; you would need to be prepared for that. I certainly don't want to appear cold and uncaring about his illness, but one can be ill and usually still treat their care-giving spouse with civility and at least some semblance of appreciation.

"...but one can be ill and usually still treat their care-giving spouse with civility and at least some semblance of appreciation."

He had pretty much stopped the verbal abuse, but there was still no emotional or physical connection. That's why I wanted him to try counselling with me.

Just before I left he said he wished we weren't so disconnected -- but I felt like he really wasn't interested in truly fixing things and I was just bringing him down. Mutual shutdown I suppose.

I have to agree, the goal should be indifference to what he thinks/feels, his opinions shouldn't matter. You've been more than kind to him and fair...now it's time to concentrate on YOU. Believe me, I know this is easier said than done, esp. to a compassionate person such as yourself, but you can form your focus.

Well, he wrote back with a proposed division of assets etc for the separation agreement, and ended his note saying his guiding principle is to make sure I am provided for.


So he seems to quite nice about all this and I am grateful, but the fact that this is really happening is still very hard for me to absorb. I know I was the one who left, so I should have accepted things by now. But there is a side that still questions my decision and whether it was right. I know -- he is giving me his answer by being so unemotional and never asking me to come back or if we could work it out.

I guess he's just tired of me being unhappy about our M and needs all his reserves just to tackle living with ms. I don't blame him I suppose. He says he will buy a condo and live there with paid help until he can no longer.

It's the holiday time and I feel so lost. Why? The past five Christmases were awful -- I couldn't spend them with my family because over time he alienated everyone, even fighting with my 80 year old Mom. Last year I didn't even get a Christmas present from him.

Now he's playing being nice and honorable and upping my guilt.

Could I have really prevented this divorce? He would never go to counselling and didn't even want me to go to my therapist. How many people just give up on 35 years?

We both had such promise -- well educated, smart, lots of potential for a wonderful life. I'm ashamed of this gigantic failure and don't think total recovery will be possible.

SOrry for venting, but with every step in this process I feel like I've entered somoe sort of nightmare zone.


me 58; him 61
married over 35 years
no affair, just alot of neglect

skyeblue

Without his willingness to get some counseling and make some efforts in the marriage, you would not have been happy, and your happiness does count. Even with a disabled spouse. Your happiness still has to factor in and has validity. The divorce could be stopped, but since he is unwilling to improve things where he can, you would just be getting back on the roller coaster.

A condo is a wise choice, so it sounds like he has given it some serious thought and is making decisions that will work for him. You need to do the same.

My advice is to bolster your old support network - family and friends. Strengthen that network and maintain your integrity by being civil and fair to him. This doesn't mean you have to be enemies. I think that's something you need to remember. You can have compassion and show that you care without being married to the person.