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Okay, I haven't rambled in a while, but it has been building up. I love my wife dearly, and I want a happy, fulfilling marriage with her, but I have been doing a lot of reading and introspection. I own up to my alienation from her because of my depression. That my depression drove a huge wedge in our relationship. But I also see now that she treated and abused me in the way her mother did her, and the way her mother did her father. I never want to be treated like that again. I see some changes in her, sometimes some big changes; but I am afraid that she will change back. She is not willing to admit her role in our demise. She sees it as all my fault for alienating myself from her. The truth is she abused me so bad mentally and publicly, that I stopped wanting to be around her for fear of embarrassment in front of friends, strangers and professional colleagues. I remember the looks of pity that strangers gave me when she would tear into me in public. I remember comments from friends after a night out with her about how she is one tough woman, a doublespeak for a nasty [censored]. That is why I got driven into depression. Yes it was my lack of coping skills and not being able to deal with the way she treated me that put me into depression; but if she hadn't done it, I wouldn't have had to cope with it. Any time I tried to talk to her and say something about the negative way she treated me, she would threaten to leave me or commit suicide. I realize this was a power play on her part and it kept me in check and allowed me to remain submissive.(I am understanding this after reading Doormat's thread and your responses) This allowed her to push me further and further. Now she is playing the victim and says she had to leave because she was lonely and had no relationship with me. That it is all my fault. Well I have come to realize that I am a great guy with a lot of great traits. I am a good catch for anyone. I have had a bunch of women hit on me and tell me that my wife is stupid. After years of neglect and abuse, it frankly feels great being made to feel wanted and worth a woman's affection. I like it and after years of no attention and coming out of the depression and wanting companionship, it is becoming increasingly lonely to raise my boys by myself and have no one to give me affection. Is this normal? What do I do about it? Can I start to date and make sure that my wife is really who I want to be with? If this is bad thinking on my part, please hit me with the 2x4s. I just am so lonely right now and long for companionship. Not sex, but someone to share my day and time with. I am doing some of this with my wife, but I don't now if I am being a doormat and allowing her to cake eat, or if we are rebuilding our connection. That is why I want to know her intentions.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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And we go back again. I went to my son's football game and sat with my wife, my son's friend and another one of my son's friend's father. Things were pleasant enough. As the game is winding down, my son's friend is calling her mother for a ride home. I told her don't have her mother come out, I'll take you home when I take my son home. As we are walking back to the cars, my wife calls me over to talk. She complains that she knows she's the bad guy for leaving, but she is still his mother and wants to see her son. ( I almost said that you can come back to the family and we would all be going home together, but that would probably make her angry). That it is unfair of me to always take him home from the game. That my son never even knows she was at the game if she doesn't take him home. How I can show up late to the games and I am the hero. It is more of her browbeating and trying to control me and the situation. I really think he likes to come home with me so we can guy talk about the game. Plus It's logical, we live 2 miles one way and she lives 3 miles in the opposite direction; and I am going home anyways.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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Well we go up the roller coaster again. Wife wife texts me this morning and asked if my son went to school, and if he didn't if I called the school. Her tone was a little accusatory. I was driving and couldn't text so I called her. She went from offering to call, to saying she will step out and leave it to me. This caused me to blow up about how she is waffling and this behavior is one of the big problems in our relationship. We then had a very good discussion about communication and being receptive to each others viewpoints. We then talked about reconciling, not actually doing it, but about the possibility of it sometime. I won't go into all the detail unless it will help with advice, but it was positive.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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in my experience if someone picks a fight it's because they are reacting to a past hurt trigger, but deep down are looking for reassurance from the targeted person (stemming from reassurance they didn't get as kids). to me she is obviously confused about her decision to leave you. i would ask what are you really afraid of/concerned about here? talking about what's really going on has been the hardest thing in my marriage, but i'm learning...

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Cabbages,
Discussing problems has been probably the biggest failure in our marriage. Whenever I tried to bring something up as a problem with her/our relationship, she threatened leaving or suicide. So I learned to keep my mouth shut, and internalize everything. Not healthy, I know, hence my depression. I guess my biggest fear is that our new found communication is not about reconnecting, but her cake-eating. We have had more frank, honest, problem solving talks (not fights) since move out day than we did in 21 years of marriage. I guess I feel that I have nothing to lose, I already lost her and I can truly speak my mind/grow a pair because I don't have to worry about either of her previous threats. Every time we talk about our issues, I feel a bonding/connection/hope, that I'm afraid if she isn't I'm setting myself up for hurt. The changes I have made will prevent me from sliding back, but it will still hurt all over again. When she acts like she used to, I honestly wonder if she can/will change and if I am wasting my effort and emotions. But it does bring me closer to her and I hope her to me as well.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
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This morning's phone call was the best one yet, it really hit at some main issues. We were able to express them and use "I feels" instead of "you make me". She admitted that she said a whole lot of nasty, hurtful stuff to me in anger, but she didn't mean them. I replied that I understood that at some level, but when we never talk about what you said and why, or apologize for saying it, it whips me down until I eventually cowered in a corner for fear of incurring your wrath again. She is having a hard time accepting this as the reason for my depression. There were other factors, but this is the major one. I was afraid to be around her, or out in public with her for fear of what she will say or do to put me down. Not a good life for either one of us and why I am so defensive. I never said anything intentionally to hurt her, but because of her self-esteem issues she took a lot as an attack, and then intentionally said and did things to hurt me! I knew hers were intentional and thought out and it made it hurt worse.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Feb 2004
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i'm glad you guys were able to talk about the outward anger shown not being what she meant. i did that a lot. i screamed and cried in vain, and I now realize I was only hoping for reassurance, some words of love. i said "leave me" a dozen times without really meaning it, and here he is, finally deciding to move out. i need to express my true needs, the need for love, as it's always been an issue, for H as well.

but i don't think it's getting into "discussing issues" when asking 'what's really going on' and 'how can i help'. you'll need to get past the fear of angering her or you won't be open either. and with kids you want to be in a caring relationship whether you end up together or not, so it shouldn't be TOO hard to show concern in a gentle way, without bringing up her past issues. listen to me, i hope i take my own advice!

btw after reading your thread, you have a lot to be proud of, way to go.

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Originally Posted by awokenhubby
It has to be a lot better, or I'm better off with someone else.
I agree that you should not get back together unless you are sure things have changed. This is not the time to be thinking about someone else.


Originally Posted by awokenhubby
I like it and after years of no attention and coming out of the depression and wanting companionship, it is becoming increasingly lonely to raise my boys by myself and have no one to give me affection. Is this normal? What do I do about it?
Yes this is normal. Do you belong to a church? Perhaps they have a divorced separation group you can join.


Originally Posted by awokenhubby
Can I start to date and make sure that my wife is really who I want to be with? If this is bad thinking on my part, please hit me with the 2x4s. I just am so lonely right now and long for companionship. Not sex, but someone to share my day and time with. I am doing some of this with my wife, but I don't now if I am being a doormat and allowing her to cake eat, or if we are rebuilding our connection. That is why I want to know her intentions.
NO you can not date. That would make things much worse for you. Continue to work on yourself. Keep talking to her and see where things go. If it becomes too painful for you then you will have to go into plan B.


W (me) 44
H 43
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Cabbages,
Thank you for the encouragement. I really have made some great strides. I think I am okay with the outcome of the marriage, whichever way it goes. I truly want to stay married to my wife, but only if it can be a great marriage. I will not settle for what it was, or even close. The problem/fear is that I could become (not that I am even close yet) the best person/husband there is and she can still divorce me and I have no say. But nothing ventured/nothing gained.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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BTW congrats on the weight loss and the biking. How's the mileage going? hurray


W (me) 44
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Married 19 years
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DS 15
DD 13
DD 8
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Suamico,
I thought as much about the dating. It's just the desire to connect and feel wanted. I guess I can bear it; for the ends justifies the means. There is always others after I have exhausted every opportunity to repair the marriage. It was just so easy to not care about companionship and a relationship while in the depression. Looking back I didn't care about much. I had one of my wrestlers win the state and national championship and was barely happy. That should have been a huge red flag! At the time I thought about it and justified it as I didn't do it, he did. So now that I am not a robot, but a feeling person, I want to feel wanted and loved.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
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Suamico,
2 rides and I will hit the 2,000 miles!! My goal is to bike the year 2010. At 40 miles a ride I will surpass that in the 2nd ride. I had to buy cold weather gear, the last ride was only 48 degrees at the finish and I couldn't feel my toes. But I will ride through snow if I have to to get my goal. This type of drive is what keeps me going in Plan A. I work at something until I accomplish it; unfortunately I don't have the final say in this.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Feb 2004
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"So now that I am not a robot, but a feeling person, I want to feel wanted and loved."
_________________________

that's a great way to say it. "awoken" is a good name i think those searching for help are indeed awakening, we finally want what's best and healthy for us. and if we're lucky, we want the same for our spouse.

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Doormat,
Your thread is really opening my eyes. My wife has the same feeling of inferiority of intelligence around me. (I am on page 18 of 32 of your thread, reading it all.) She actually got better grades than me in college, but I was a slacker. She felt awkward around me because I'm a very eloquent, convincing speaker. Every time we would have a discussion she would feel that I won and resent that. I never tried to put her down, but with her low self-esteem she always felt it. I didn't do enough to make her feel equal. I am enjoying reading your thread and learning through your lessons.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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NO to the dating! If you do end up divorced, you will need some time to heal before getting into a relationship with someone else. This isn't the time to think about that though, one thing at a time, right now you still have the goal of getting back together so that's what I'd focus on. Spend some time with friends, do something enjoyable. Know within yourself that you are someone worth dating or having a relationship with...that knowledge doesn't have to come from with OUT but can come from with IN.


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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KC,
Thanks for another 2x4 crazy . I know that it is wrong, it's already been confirmed and I really knew it before I asked; just hearing it here helps reinforce it. It's just the desire for companionship. After being isolated and alone so long, I want to connect with someone. I just need to keep my eye on the goal and remember that it is worth it. Read next post for an update.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
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So after this morning's talk/argument; things took another step forward. Both boys were sick and we were texting back and forth trying to coordinate getting them to different doctors. My older son drove himself and I took my younger one after work. She called to find out what the doctor said and then offered to stop by the pizza shop near her work and pick up pizza that we all really love. She brought it by after work and stayed and had dinner with us!!! It was a very pleasant dinner. After dinner she hung out for a bit. I hope it was to see me, but more likely her mothering instinct for her sick babies. I eventually left to walk the dog and give her time alone with the boys. I sent her a text apologizing for not asking her to come walk the dog with me, but I wanted to give her time with the boys. When I came back she was gone. No response to my text yet.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 346
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Why is it that every time I stick up for myself and put her in her place we have a step forward? If she felt like I was always putting her down and this was a big trigger, why does it get a positive response now?


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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AHEM. Let's not try to figure out why a wayward thinks this, or does that. It is CRAZY MAKING.

Now, about this dating thing. COMPLETELY NORMAL to think about it. Also completely normal to figure out it is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Try not to focus on your WW's actions or reactions. That is the beauty of Plan A. You need to just do what you need to do and not worry about what your WW is doing. Become the best YOU that you can be. Someone you would be PROUD to be.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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i think because she's seeing you have good intentions now, where before nothing but negativity could be taken from anything you said (i have unfortunately been there and back with H).

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