Gamma, no I was referring to your comments about how your adoptive parents lied to you about your bio parents and the circumstances surrounding your birth, but I don't know the full story.

I just wanted to give an update that it's been over a week of NC with my OM, and I've hardly given it a thought, thanks to all of you who have shown support and given advice!

We are still undecided about who to tell and when, but we're thinking about waiting until the court case is complete so that we know all the facts before we tell. We're pretty sure OM won't contact our families because it could hurt his court case if he "harrassed" us.

Now counseling and doing the MB program are on the horizon, which should hopefully help restore the relationship, since right now I have significant work to do to rebuild trust! Any tips on some steps to take? I've given my BH all access to my phone, e-mail, and he calls me to check in. Plus I don't go anywhere without him right now. My concern is that eventually this will turn into me being a "captive" and him controlling me, which is not healthy either.

Should I repost this inquiry on another forum heading?

"We are still undecided about who to tell and when, but we're thinking about waiting until the court case is complete so that we know all the facts before we tell. We're pretty sure OM won't contact our families because it could hurt his court case if he "harrassed" us."

Wise decision.

It sounds like you're doing good! You could repost on the Surviving an Affair board, since it gets more traffic and you may get more responses. Many of the recovery issues will be the same as those without an OC, though an OC does complicate things somewhat.

Keep up the good work and make sure that you and your H are spending 15-20 hours a week of UA time together. This is something that has been missing in my M lately, and it does take a toll. I know it's hard with a baby but it is so very important.

WH,

There is a thread here that address the OM as interloper in the M and the courts in KY ruled that he must stay out of the M and therefore out of the OC's life. If you search for it you can probably locate it. I think Mr. Wondering posted it originally. You will get opinions on both sides here. Here is mine. My FWH is 100% NC with OW and OC. He is required to pay CS and does. Having been divorced and having a child split between 2 homes on my side, we had already experienced what you fear for your OC. Fight for your M and your self-respect. Stay NC with OM. Raise your OC as your COM and teach her the values that you forgot. When she is old enough (and every person is different) you can inform her. But you will need to be honest and forthcoming in your information, what it did to you and to BH. That the least harm and best conditions for all was the goal of the adults.
Stop all C with OM. Change your email your cellphone. Everything. We relocated over 2,000 miles away. It makes it much more difficult for C from OW this way
Closure is C and it is 100% selfish. There is no reason in the world for your H to agree to you making C with OM to "say goodbye". POJA is very important, and it requires the consideration of the other parties feelings. You know that having to go say goodbye to your lover would hurt your BH. This is really a no-brainer. YOU have to shut it down. Do it for yourself, your BH, your M, and most importantly the OC that you created and brought into the world so that she can grow up with two parents, M'ed and in love with each other!

Well said FTS!

There was a link to the bio's dad blog on page four but it has 99% of the earlier posted material on the bio dads blog is gone.

I couldn't get past the first page and medc's constant references to women's boobs. Like those are the only thing that differentiate a woman from a man. Whatever a judge takes into consideration regarding who should or should not have custody of a child, I seriously doubt it has anything to do with boobs.

Still, an interesting argument. Is there anything on the thread that gives the eventual outcome of the case?

Whats wrong with boob's?
If you get mad at your BH will you still hold them ah I meant hold it against him?

wh,,, when i 1st started reading this thread i saw you as still burning your candle at both ends and felt your h deserved a better deal then that. you are still fighting the fog and that is where your problems lie.

i am hoping that finding this site and being able to come here for advice and support will give you the strength to continue to do the right thing and be Honest with your h.

i wouldn't fear disclosure to yours or h's family's. your family will most likely be shocked but the oc is still in their bloodline and they will love her regardless.

your h's family will also be shocked but i'm betting they will do the same thing my family did and follow your h's lead and support him in his decisions.

we are raising our oc and om has visitation and pays cs. she will be 9 in december.

originally i pushed for the cs and if om felt obligated he could have his visits.

there were many reasons for that decision. my health, finances (for my fww, com and oc) should something happen to me, age, size of our family, my past experience with my older son (split home), and the fact that i like to keep my enemies where i can see them.

that view changed when i saw how hard it was for my w dealing with oc going back and forth.

now i am on the fence but it is too late for us to change. i offered the om the chance to get out and go his merry way a couple of years back but he declined. so we are making the best of our situation

here is another ftr. originally i was the go between. handled all drop offs and pick ups and all communication.

that has changed. now and for the past 2 years or so all communication is handled by my w. i believe that she is completely open and honest with me about everything and it is done thru text messages mostly and kept to business only.

"here is another ftr. originally i was the go between. handled all drop offs and pick ups and all communication.

that has changed. now and for the past 2 years or so all communication is handled by my w. i believe that she is completely open and honest with me about everything and it is done thru text messages mostly and kept to business only."

A big Harley No No. There must be NC for life. You mister need to get unlazy and man up an enforce NC today, NOW, 7:07 AM EST not a second later.

Your actions have taught your OC that time heals all, that WW and OM actions were not that bad because my SD allows contact between OM and my mom after they have sex and cuckold my SD.

First bad decision going for CS which has kept OM in your marriage.

Another bad decision allowing NC to be broken.

Pops, I agree with The Road. I can't even imagine the toll it would take on the health of my M if I had to have ongoing C with the OM 9 years after the A. Even if your W is being honest with you and the communication is all business, that simply isn't healthy for your M. There is no way to heal and move on with continued contact. Why on earth would you want your W to continue having C with the OM after all these years? If you don't want to be the mediator anymore, you and your W could get a 3rd party to do that.

A cautionary tale for you. My H's A started literally within days of our wedding. He finally confessed a year later and we immediately set forth a plan of NC (without knowing anything about MB). Several years later, the OW weaseled her way back into our lives and we all became "friends" (brilliant of me, I know). My H swore up and down that he didn't have feelings for her anymore. Fast forward several years, when I got a bombshell dropped on me yet again and was informed late one night by my very tearful and remorseful H that the "friendship" with OW had been quite a bit more than just friendly for some time. I thought he was being O&H with me too. He was always where he said he would be (I checked). He never saw the OW unless me or the kids were with him. Come to find out, they were sneaking off upstairs for little "sessions" when he would take the kids over to her house to play (sometimes even while her H or I was in the house). Where there's a will (and an opportunity) there is a way. Giving your W that opportunity is an EXTREMELY bad idea, no matter how honest she seems.

while i agree that our choice is a "big harley no no" i disagree that with contact there can ever be "nc for life"

i will state right here, right now that the harley's are much wiser, have dealt with far far more cases similar to ours, done much more research on the topic and have had more information then i to form there opinions and priciples..

do i agree with their principles? yes. do i agree with all their opinions? no.

i listened to their radio segment on one of our own loving members (FF) and quite put off by the myopic position that was so professionally expressed. i thought it shallow and nothing more then negative

BUT

i will say that i (as has anyone else who has dealt with this) has had more "real" life experience with our situation then the harleys

i also disagree with what you say the oc has been taught. at 8 yrs 11 months i think she doesn't even or can't even begin to understand the emotional ramifications of what her mother and bio did to my marriage

BUT

she can understand that her daddy isn't trying to beat her bio to death every time i see him or talk negatively about him ever. does that mean that time dheals all (which it does, more on that later)

she understands that her mother and bio can be civil even tho they are not living under the same roof

she understands forgiveness

she understands civality

now i am in no way suggesting that anyone else follow the same path as i did just simply saying what is working for us

now for the time heals all.. how do you think that 2 men who tried killing each other 30 , 40 , 50 years ago in battle can sit down aface to face and celebrate their servival if "time" did not work its healing magic

enough said on that?

would go on longer but the work day is calling me

�i disagree that with contact there can ever be "nc for life"�

I�ve seen breaking NC years later cause to many affairs to re start.

�i will state right here, right now that the harley's are much wiser, have dealt with far far more cases similar to ours, done much more research on the topic and have had more information then i to form there opinions and priciples..�

What is the point of this baloney?

�do i agree with their principles? yes. do i agree with all their opinions? no.�

�i will say that i (as has anyone else who has dealt with this) has had more "real" life experience with our situation then the Harleys�

One does not have to be shot with a gun to know gun�s will kill after seeing people shot a lot of times

�i also disagree with what you say the oc has been taught. at 8 yrs 11 months i think she doesn't even or can't even begin to understand the emotional ramifications of what her mother and bio did to my marriage�

Have you not read here how WS�s exposed to parents affairs even at younger ages wound up being wayward themselves as adults.

This points to you being so fogged up that you are not realizing how you are teaching your acceptance of the OM impregnating your WW by not banishing the OM from your families life for ever.

Your example is a BH that refuses to protect his family from an interloper. This is your lesson.

�she can understand that her daddy isn't trying to beat her bio to death every time i see him or talk negatively about him ever. does that mean that time dheals all (which it does, more on that later)�

She understands that what the OM and her mom did must not be that bad because you allowed contact for WW and contact for DD with the OM. A child�s logic is simple and direct. She see�s your approval of OM being in your family after the affair.

�she understands that her mother and bio can be civil even tho they are not living under the same roof�

She understands that continue contact between affair partners is ok because you allow it.

�she understands forgiveness�

DD has been taught to forgive things that should not be.

�she understands civility�

DD is being taught to have acceptance of breaking NC.

�now i am in no way suggesting that anyone else follow the same path as i did just simply saying what is working for us�

Because you know that for you to tell others to follow your steps would be wrong.

�now for the time heals all.. how do you think that 2 men who tried killing each other 30 , 40 , 50 years ago in battle can sit down aface to face and celebrate their servival if "time" did not work its healing magic�

Veterans from opposing army�s to meet 50 years after a WWII is not the same as OM and cuckold meeting up.

War is nation against nation, impersonal.

Affair is man against man, personal.

You sound as a man that has been beaten down post affair because your decision to go for CS has kept OM in your life with continued contact with your WW and now are to tired to work for NC.

�i will state right here, right now that the harley's are much wiser, have dealt with far far more cases similar to ours, done much more research on the topic and have had more information then i to form there opinions and priciples..�

The point is to keep people such as yourself from wasting space and time trying to berate me for my opinions if they differ somewhat from teh harley's.

"What is the point of this baloney?"

this is the only baloney line i have read

"One does not have to be shot with a gun to know gun�s will kill after seeing people shot a lot of times"

and a male pediatrician may know the ins and outs of child birth but doesn't have a clue to the "real" life feelings of that incredible event. where does that apply to our situation

"Have you not read here how WS�s exposed to parents affairs even at younger ages wound up being wayward themselves as adults"

Not only have i read it i have lived it. My w's grandfather was a wh and her mother was a ww.

that doesn't mean that my children will be wayward's. they have the free will that God gave us to make better choices. they can follow their mother or they can follow my example.

"She understands that what the OM and her mom did must not be that bad because you allowed contact for WW and contact for DD with the OM. A child�s logic is simple and direct. She see�s your approval of OM being in your family after the affair."

nice try to twist this. but sorry. what she understands is that her bio is being responsible for his dumba$$ choices. She understands that her daddy had the choice to except her or not. and i have. she understands that her daddy does not fear her bio

she understands that her mom fights for her and loves her. she understands that when she is having trouble going for a visitation her mom is there for her. she understands that her mom tells om when he can and csn not have her when there is a conflict.

ftr her communication is strictly business. oc is sick and doesn't want to go this weekend. she has to be at soccer at this time. no you can't take her today b/c whatever.

where is all the truth and honesty i hear you talking about all the time? here we are being honest about our oc's heritage from the outset so we won't have to deal with the when and how of telling her later in life or any negative ramifications of her feeling lied to for 15, 18, or 22 years and you're still griping.


"Because you know that for you to tell others to follow your steps would be wrong."

no,, b/c i know that each situation has its own perticular circumstances and individuals who all deal with things differently. what works for one may not work for another

"War is nation against nation, impersonal"

wrong again my good man, while nations may engage in war don't be fooled into thinking that battle is not between individuals. very very personal

"I�ve seen breaking NC years later cause to many affairs to re start.'

this may be true but what you don't know is that for Me if this ever entered my life again with this woman i would be gone in a blink of an eye. i would have no feelings of being inadaqucate or self doubt. i understand that the problem would lie in my w not me.

you see there road i refuse to live in fear that my w will start up again with om. if she wants him she knows she can have him. i don't even concern myself with those thoughts. trust me there is no fog in my head. i am very clear about where i am and where i stand with my w

"You sound as a man that has been beaten down post affair because your decision to go for CS has kept OM in your life with continued contact with your WW and now are to tired to work for NC"

actually i walk very tall in my 5"9" frame. om is in our life b/c that's where i wanted him. like i said before right where i can see him. i never insisted on complete nc.

having been thru a split home raising my oldest i know quite clearly what types of contact are acceptable or not.

what i see is that you are a man that is uneasy with anyone that has been able to make life work throuugh one of these tramatic situations.

from my perspective life for a bh who wants to work thro his marriage with his w is much different and brings a different set of challenges then with a wh. a bh has to see the oc every day so the "reminder" of teh om is always in his face.

he greats it everday with a hug and a kiss. he puts her to bed every night with a hug and a kiss and a prayer. he holds her when she is ill and affraid of teh thunder. he is there for her 1st day of school, back to school night, he coachs her soccer team even tho om has to bring her to every other game, and he does it without fear standing tall. he will be there when she graduates hs, when she gets married and when she has her own children God willing.

he will teach her compassion, forgiveness, class, character and to be a lady

I would love to continue this debate but maybe on a separate thread.

my purpose here is to show that there are more then one path to walk but that each path brings with it its own separate potholes

Pops and Road,

I'm a newbie here, but I am also a spiritual person, and I believe what we're dealing with isn't flesh versus flesh but darker forces that want to destroy one of the most blessed covenants--the cov of M. When the family is broken, we become easy targets for Satan. Thus for me I have to be extra wary of any opportunity where Satan could attack my M. I used to feel bad for the OM, want "closure"--until I realized it was Satan's influence at work. I think that's ultimately the most impt thing we should be on guard against. Don't act out of fear but out of faith.

I def agree that each sit. is unique, but as long as we're prayerful and open to wise counsel I feel that God will give us the truth. That's how I found MB and how I was able to find strength to confess A to my BH. And I will STILL be reliant on God thru this sit. 20 years from now, I'm sure. For me, I know that NC with OM is only option--too many feelings involved to risk C.

On a side note, yesterday I heard a message about "fighting for M." Fighting costs us, hurts us, and changes us. But I admire those who find a WS worth fighting for, for we all need someone who loves us even when we become unlovely.

Pops, I'm wondering if seeing the OC everyday remains a constant reminder of the OM and the A more in your situation simply because OM is still a part of your lives. The reason why I bring this up is because my H doesn't seem to feel this way about our OC. We've had this discussion many times, and he honestly says that our OC doesn't remind him of the OM at all. When he looks at her, all he sees is HIS little girl, because that's what she is. He is the only daddy she's ever known or ever will know. Since we have had no interference from the OM, he has not had to share that role with anyone else, so he feels as though she really is his daughter in every way but the DNA, and having been adopted himself by his stepfather, and having himself raised by three older children from previous relationships, DNA has never been that important to him.

I'm not arguing with your choices here. I think there is no one right answer to the situation. It is tough, and yes, my H and I will have to deal with the issue of trying to explain this situation to our daughter someday. I'm not looking forward to that. But in our situation, with the OM living 3000 miles away, there simply isn't much of a way for her to grow up knowing about all of this.

I think you honestly did what you felt was best for everyone involved. The only aspect of your decision that I question is your W continuing to have C with the OM. I'm sorry, but I think NC is essential for every A in order to truly protect the M and allow healing and recovery to occur. I don't know any exceptions to this particular rule, and almost every A recovery program I've ever seen (including the Harley's) incorporates the rule of NC for life. For me, I know that NC was essential.

writer i believe you are refering to this statement


""""""""""""""" a bh has to see the oc every day so the "reminder" of teh om is always in his face.""""""""""""

Please don't take that statement literally.

your discription of your h is exactly how i feel when i look at grace. i don't "see" om. all i see is my beautiful little girl.

while i may not be the only father she has ever known i AM the only daddy she has and will ever know.

i have said it many times before. she is my child in every sense. i was there teh day she was born, her 1st tooth, words, steps, birthdays, day of school, all her soccer games, Christmas and Easter mornings, halloween, when she is sick, afraid, or just needs a cuddle. and i will be for the rest of my life.

i also would never argue anyones choices on how they deal with this sit. while there are many common symptoms there are also a plethora of choices on how to deal with them

i don't think you should fret telling your oc. i am sure when that time comes you and your h will handle it quite well.

the problem i had was that long before i ran into this snag in my marriage and discovered marriage builders. i had come to the conclusion that it is best for a child to know all his bio parents. this was from talkig with my pastor and also from listening to several child phsycologists on the topic. the reason i was interested is b/c i was dealing with raising a child in a split home. his mom was the queen of b!t(h and it seemed easier for me to walk away. glad i didn't

so i still believe that now. the only thing that should change that is abuse.

do i object to nc. not at all. as i said there are so many different choices and each of us deals with it the best way we can. what is good for you may not work for me and vice versa

wh,,,, you are right. trust in your faith in God and He will lead you thru this. He will guide you to what works best for you and your h.

For me, as an MB forum member without an OC, there is only ONE right choice.



That's it!