vivi,

I suggest that you buy His Needs Her Needs and Surviving an Affair from this website, the bookstore is at the bottom of the home page for this website. I really think this will help you to get grounded.

Yes, it is time to stop your pity party, because you are spinning your wheels right now. I understand this because of the trauma you have suffered because of the visual you had with the minicam. Hard for anyone to take, and I sympathize.

However, no more pity party. Time for action. Read read and read some more.

Then come up with a plan.

I know what it is like to feel like a fool. You trusted and believed your WS and now you know the truth. I was the last one to know. Even my kids knew before me, and said nothing because they didn't want to break my heart.

That is the past, this is now, and you need to get all the information you can and figure out what you are going to do.

Remember we are there for you. But read up before you make any plans. Marriage Builders works, but you have to learn what it is all about.

You cannot hide your head in the sand forever.

So put your big girl panties on and tell us what you want to do. We will help you.

Come on vivi, you can do it!!!

Please order those books, they are very inexpensive. You won't be sorry!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

vivi,

You already have your ace in the hole with the tape.

He has no choice but to tell the truth. I guess I don't understand why you aren't willing to talk with him at least once at this point, which would give you a small window for some Plan A time. And, you could also get some idea of what his situation is as well. He may be willing to do whatever it takes.

You are definitely NOT on the MB plan by going straight to Plan B at this point, without any Plan A whatsoever.


JMHO.


SB

ITA with Schoolbus!

FWIW, So do I.

Yes I do Badly.

I need help with the letter so I can get it to my WH Please.

I walked in DD living rm and saw her crying in my SNL arms about me. I felt so bad. When she saw me standind there she told me "You are the only Mom I have and I don't want to lose u. She was happy when I cut my hair.

vivi...

Your H has not done anything yet to earn forgiveness. So that should not be something you should consider yet.

If I understand your current situation as of today, its as follows:

1. Your H will not admit his affair w/OW
2. Your H is still being seen by other people around town with
OW at the store, park, etc....so his affair is
still active.

If you talk to him now, will he admit the affair? Does he know you have the video tape of him and OW?

If he still gaslights even after you tell him you have absolute proof and refuses to stop seeing OW, then that tells you there is no way to start working on recovering your marriage yet.

Forgiveness comes later....not when he's still in the middle of an affair.

plan a is not started with a letter.

It is a way of behaving with your WH that shows him what a great relationship can be like recovered.
BUT on the other hand, it is NOT a plan doormat. THis does not mean caving into all WH needs,
You are going to have to positively set boundries.

read the carrot and stick of Plan A.


If you are going to plan A, I would set up a time to meet with your WH. Either by phone or in person, but make give yourself some time to prepare your plan A.
DO not do this on impulse, let both him and you think about what you want to say.

You do not have to tolerate lies about the A.
Or babysit those kids
or put up with selfish demands
or threats.

BUT there are positive way to go about doing this. Your new quest is to find out about boundries.
DO not tell WH about this site.

Not yet.

Here you go vivi, the carrot and stick of plan a...it is too early in the morning and I am not awake enough to figure out the link yet, but read this:

Because the original is locked in the archives .... and most people only quote the first bit .... Here it is.

(from 2006)


Quote:


The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.



And there is more ....


Quote:


Plan A is NOT a decision you and your adulterous spouse make together !!!

Plan A is a tool for the betrayed spouse to implement in order to try and stop the affair ~and~ attract the adulterous spouse BACK to the marriage

do NOT discuss this tool with the adulterous spouse

Plan A is YOUR weapon against infidelity !!! The adulterous spouse is ~for~ infidelity, not against it .... be careful NOT to reveal your secret weapon of Plan A !!!



and more ....


Quote:


Stop lovebusting behaviors.

from the site:

Quote:



Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty





I think it is impossible to completely stop ALL ~LB~ behaviors during the initial SHOCK of discovering your spouse is/was unfaithful

having said that

if the affair continues

once you start Plan A ... YOU must be in control of your emotional outbursts

ASK the board for HELP to do this


and some more ....


Quote:


Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.


time to take your OWN inventory

compile a list of things you historically contribute to the marriage that make the marriage work .... and do MORE of this

don't make announcements about what you are going to do ... just take action

DEMONSTRATE what an awesome spouse/contrubutor to the marriage YOU are



.... continuing Plan A ....


Quote:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

re-visit the emotional needs questionairre on this site

if your spouse is ACTIVELY continuing their affair after discovery ... try to get the information about his/her emotional needs indirectly

take the questionairre answering ~as if~ you were your adulterous spouse

then take the top 3 needs and get a plan together to fill their most important needs ~when possible~

caution is required if your spouse scores high on sexual fulfillment as their emotional need ... if your spouse is sleeping with someone else YOU need to enforce the use of condom protection ... and even that is not foolproof protection you won't be exposed to a disease

GET TESTED for STDs every so often if you are having sex with a still cheating spouse

MOST people in an affair do NOT use protection <~~~ is's a fact you must face !


and ....


Quote:


Offering forgiveness and understanding.

By this I mean .... suggesting to the confused foggy affair-addicted spouse that there is HOPE for the marriage even though what they are doing is awful ... there is a map leading to home

Often their thinking is thus: "It's too late now. I've done too much damage ... my spouse could never forgive me, so I might as well continue with the affair."

You, the sane spouse, need to squash that belief that they can never be forgiven for what they have done.
You do not need to forgive them right away, but offer them the hope of a future where all is forgiven.

You can word it something like this:

All of us do things we regret. When I think of some of my past mistakes, I am extremely grateful for having been forgiven by those I've hurt. I want to be in the position to offer you that same grace. I have been forgiven, so I understand what it feels like to be in a position where you hope forgiveness is possible. It is possible.



continuing ...


Quote:


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.


Exposure is your most effective tool to end the affair !

It is important to SNOOP ~before~ exposure.

There are ways to snoop in order to gather evidence. If you have questions about snooping tactics ... go to the general Questions infidelity forum and begin a thread titled something like: ~~~> I need to snoop. Teach me everything you know!

OK ... once you've snooped and you know there is an affair ... and your spouse refuses to end the affair relationship ... you will hear:

"It's only a friendship."
"You are too controling."
"I love you but I am not in love with you."
"You are too suspicious."
"You are crazy."
"Our marriage never worked."
"I've never been happy."
"Our marriage was a mistake from the start."

TIME for exposure.

WAT has a great exposure thread ... read it

Exposure is NOT to the 2 infidels ... they already know they are in an affair!

You expose to the other betrayed spouse first.

You expose to your family as well as your spouse's family (if appropriate)
You expose to work, or neighbors, or others .... ASK the board for help regarding who to expose to

HOW you expose is important

wording something like:

I am saddened to tell you my sweetie is having an affair. It's been going on for (length of time).He/she refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my sweetie, please do what you can to get him/her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

don't forget these words

swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

you NEVER tell your adulterous spouse you are going to expose

you just do it



more ....


Quote:


Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Exposure makes the infidel furious rant2

stay calm
breathe

no one can stay furious forever ... being furious is exhausting ... consumes a lot of energy ... let the furious infidel fume and exhaust his/her self

YOU stay cool cool

You will hear:

"That's it. We are never going to stay married after what YOU did."
"I am moving out now, thanks to you."
"You are getting OP in trouble at home."
"Now our kids will have a broken home thanks to you."

blah blah blah

You respond to all the raging comments: I am still holding out hope for our marriage.

You stay calm

You don't argue

You don't explain

You do not preach

You do not educate

~and~ you do NOT apologize for standing up for truth and marriage and keeping your family intact

YOU calmly re-state your belief that there is hope for the marriage ....

if things get out of hand ... excuse yourself and go for a walk or a drive ...

remember ... exposure makes the already foggy spouse act insane ... but it is temporary



.....


Quote:


Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.


Plan A is often misunderstood as "acting nice"

excuse me acting "nice' in the face of an affair makes me want to puke puke

Plan A is taking control of one's self ...it is NOT "acting nice" ~as if~ there was no infidelity eating away at your family .... infidelity hurts like battery acid poured on your skin

am I right?

heII yes I am right

so you scared and panicky betrayed ~~~> SPEAK UP

tell the truth

"This affair hurts me. This affair is going to destroy our family. Let's get help."

If your spouse does something really thoughtless ... SPEAK UP.

"What you just said (did) hurts me terribly."

"I feel wounded by your affair."

"My heart aches for the love we used to share."

But be careful ... don't get needy or whiney or weepy ... those are love-busters

it's a fine line between telling the truth about what hurts ... and staying away from LB behaviors

ASK for help from the board

if you are unsure if what you are doing is correct... examine how much self control you have at any given moment ... and if you are feeling in control of yourself ... you are probably right on the money !

if you feel yourself losing control ... step away and re-group


>>>>>>


Quote:


Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

You never were a perfect spouse. You never will be.

You are part of the equation of your marriage environment .. but you have no power to cause your spouse to choose an affair

The freshly wounded often look at themselves and blame themselves for their spouse's choice to go outside the marriage....

stop

Sure, this is an opportunity to take your own inventory ... but NEVER accept blame for your spouse's choice to have an affair

The issue of not meeting the emotional needs of the adulterous spouse ~before~ the affair began is NOT a reason to choose infdelity

not ever

You are responsible for your choices, not for the choices of your spouse

relax
breathe



~~~~~~
Quote:


Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

If we experience no consequences when we mess up ... there is very little motivation for us to change our wrong behaviors that have become a habit

do the infidel a favor

do not stand inbetween them and their consequences

show respect for the infidel by allowing them to feel whatever their behaviors have earned them

be it
shame
embarrasment
fear

whatever they have earned

let it be

unpleasant consequences are what motivates changing habitual bad behaviors

let it roll




******


Quote:


A very very important part of Plan A !!!

That is some serious self-pampering .... which may include but is not limited to:

>manicures/pedicures

>dates with friends

>hire a sitter so YOU can have fun

>relaxing your usually busy schedule

>say "No, I can't do that now." when you are running out of energy

>pray and ask for spiritual and emotional support from someone wise in your circle of trust

>buy all new sheets

>paint the bedroom

>treat yourself to something sexy to wear

>try a new hairstyle

>get contact lenses or Kewl new glasses

>glam up

>buy concert/theater tickets

>exercise

Self pampering will keep your Taker happy for awhile which IMPROVES your Plan A




~~~~~~~

and finally, This is an old post of mine ... written in 2002... I was trying to put the "doormat of Plan A" issue to rest .... in my own mind. Now you can look at what I came up with, back then.


Quote:




Looking back ... I can see I worked myself through a very awkward "plan A" ....
although I never heard of plan A until years into recovery and I started poking around this site.

Looking back ... I can see my efforts to become differentiated ... although I did not read Schnarch's Passionate Marriage until years into recovery.

Plan A is very much complementary to Schnarch's ideas of differentiation.

Developing a positive identity within the context of a marriage struggling to overcome infidelity.

Developing a strong sense of self-worth that is valid both within and outside the boundaries of the marriage.

I can NOW see plan A as a path to greater self worth and NOT necessarily as a plan to "win back" the heart and mind of the infidel ... although that might happen.

It is a plan to differentiate myself and identify myself as a worthy person apart from the circumstances of the marriage relationship.

Plan A'ers are not like doormats to wipe your feet upon and to mis-use .... more like a *welcome home* sign... if both persons choose to re-inter the marriage!

Plan A says : "I can hold onto my better self under the worst of circumstances".

Schnarch says: "We develop a contingent identity based on a 'self-in-relationship'. Because our identity depends on the relationship, we may demand that our partner doesn't change so that our identity won't either."

Then ... comes the grenade of infidelity tossed into the marriage and the entire fusion of identities is blown apart!

The aftermath of the grenade then boils down to this question ....

WHO THE HECK AM I ... AND ... WHO THE HECK ARE YOU?

And, asking this question to the *fogged-in* infidel is pointless. They got INTO the affair because they were lost to themselves, and went searching for a new self .... and, INSTEAD of differentiating themselves ... they fused identity to yet another relationship ... actually moving away from a healthy differentiated view of their self-worth ----> I am wonderful because my affair partner thinks so.

Plan A says and demonstrates to OURSELVES: I am not some weak pathetic person deserving to be abandoned or cheated. I am demonstrating decent and loving behaviour. I am worthy of love and devotion. ... If the infidel notices .... double bonus points. If not, I become better differentiated along the way ... and I can see my strengths despite terrible and hurtful circumstances.

Once I become more fully differentiated and have stable and accurate self-worth (after the grenade) ... I am then in the position to identify
healthy choices.

I can honestly say that I will be a sensational woman within this marriage... or after this marriage terminates.

I think I finally understand what I went through. I understand that I am the better woman for it. I understand my spouse is the better man for it.

That is a powerful message to myself.

The anxiety that floods the betrayed spouse is the perceived loss of identity .

Self worth and a differentiated identity is the harvest of plan A .

I think I get it now.

Best to all of you travelers on this journey!

Wow, MissM

What a kind and helpful post.

Barbiecat, Thank you for this wonderful post. How thoughtful and kind. Let me ask you this do I meet with my WH at our home or someowhere else. I would like to do this today

I slept ok last night. This morning I got up and thought I need to talk to him today.

I take NO credit for this. This was posted by Pepperband on her Carrot and Stick of Plan A thread. I just pasted it here so vivi would have it right in front of her.

It is pretty awesome.

Thank you Pep!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

vivi,

Please read what I copied here for you many times before you meet with your WS.

I suggest you meet in a public place, for coffee maybe, that way it will help you to keep your emotions in check, and your WS will be less likely to get out of control.

You must let him know you have absolute proof, and you will not be lied to or gaslighted anymore. Those days are over.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hi vivi - my first chance to jump online.
Have you met your WH yet? You mentioned earlier that you wanted to do that today.

I would suggest that you call him and ask him to meet with you tomorrow at a public place where you can talk - maybe the food court at the mall? Tell him you would like to talk about your future together. Don't get into it on the phone with him, just set the time and place. He will more than likely attempt to talk right then - you need to keep control of the conversation. Don't allow him to start his spin.

Before you meet with him you need a game plan. I would suggest that you start out by declaring the conversation a "no bullchit zone". Tell him immediately that you have the minicam (don't take it there with you.) and that the lies are all done now. Tell him you want the complete and unvarnished truth about the A.

Let him know that you will not entertain the notion of remaining with him if you feel he is lying to you. That will end the meeting.

If you want to remain married, let him know that. And let him know what your requirements are for doing so:

Immediate NC with skank.
NC letter.
All means of communication with skank are to be stopped. Change his cell phone number, no computer/email for him.

That's for starters. See if he agrees with that. But I would say to set the meeting for tomorrow so we can help you brainstorm and be ready for it.

And may I interject one other requirement?

A paternity test on the baby of the ow. I just feel wierd about the situation. The walks with baby in stroller (ow to see wh), their visits to walmart together, just some strange feelings I have about her sitch (the ow's situation doesn't make sense to me..too weird).

Pulling for you Vivi! Get a plan, write it all down and bring it with you if you have to. Let your family also know of your whereabouts of the meeting and carry your cellphone w/you at all times.

carry a digital recorder too so that he can't admit then deny later. This man is a crazy maker!

Ok I will that. I am calling him this evening and meet with him tomorrow. I will do what u guys suggested I do. Thank you so much. I will make sure I have my Big girl panties on tomorrow too lol

Paternity tests have been done the kids (OW ex-boyfriend wanted it done) None of them are my WH. I saw the paperwork. People have seen them at Wendys, Circle K parking lot. Her sister BF sold them in the parking lot at Wal Mart My WH was giving her some money and slapped her butt. They have been seen at Wal Mart several times The nerves of these 2. I will make sure I take my cell ph with me.