She has told me that she is having doubts about us being able to work through this. She is very distant and at times just tells me she doesn't want to talk at all. She tells me that she still needs to figure out what she needs to do for herself.

I do anything and everything I can to try to help. I try to make everyday better.

We still have a long ways to go and I expect that. I have had her EN list for a while and focus on that. She has not expressed any interest in seeing mine or any of the other MB tools to make our relationship stronger.

She is still dealing with the shock and I understand that. I so want to be able to focus on us but for now the focus is her.

I do not know if she visits this site much anymore. She has not mentioned it at all lately. I know she hasn't posted since the move.

I have not been posting much until yesterday but still read the forums and articles.

Hang in there DH.

You are the first WS that I actually read. Usually, I would read the first post, find out it was a WS and decide it was too hard for me to read on. YOU were different. You showed so much remorse and only a little "fog." That doesn't make it any easier. I know.

You need to do what you can and hopefully, Broken will decide one way or the other so you can move forward.

Thanks Scotland, that means a lot.

dh,

One of the things that would have helped me a lot,

but never happened....

would have been if my husband would have brought up the affair HIMSELF.


There were so many times that I did want to talk about it, but I did not bring it up

because

I thought that he was sick of listening to my pain, to my thoughts, to my questions. I thought that I had worn him out, and that he had had enough.


I wanted to talk, but was afraid that if I did talk again, it would be an argument - I didn't want to argue, but I wanted to hear him speak of his thoughts, you know? I wanted to know what he was thinking, where his "recovery" was, what he thought about how he had changed, what his questions were FOR ME.

He didn't ask me questions much - not about how I was feeling


that would have helped. It would have helped to hear him say


is there anything you need to ask me that i haven't answered

is there anything you need to know today, that has occurred to you that you haven't asked up til now

i know your moods sometimes change, and that's okay, mine do too...today i've been feeling a bit _________. how about you?

since we last talked about my stupidity, i have been thinking, and one of the changes i can see in myself and the way that i thought then versus now is ___________. i can see that i blamed __________ for my behavior, and that was wrong, when in reality my thoughts were really off. the more i am working on this, the better my thinking is. what have you seen as changes in me - do you have suggestions, thoughts, help for me?

is there anything you think you need from me to help you, answers, information, hugging, time, anything?




You get the idea. Offer yourself - because talking about "now" is fine for YOU. But for her, trust me, she is not done thinking about the affair or processing the feelings. Not for about 18 months or so more.


You have lots more mountain to climb, deerhunter. Steep mountain.


And a few canyons to traverse.


Anticipate them, and build ladders NOW. Open those conversations yourself - and let her know that YOU are willing to take the initiative to do it. She has to see you do the work.


And one more thing: you absolutely need to make that UA time happen, or you will lose this battle.

SB

I agree with SB.

It is especially challenging when a BS is trying to work her side of MB...because she's not suppose to bring up the affair anymore. But sometimes there's more that needs talked about.

I have had an email in my drafts for a couple weeks. Broken had emailed me and said she wanted to know what was said in emails since I came back from overseas prior to the start of the NC. I had done it then but when I saw her that afternoon I read it to her and we talked. She told me during that conversation that I didn't need to send it to her. That was the first real serious conversation we had about the A since she moved to be with me.

I actually asked her if she still wanted it yesterday even before SB and SMB suggested it. She hadn't given me an answer.

Well I just sent it.

Last night I also reread my EP list and NCP. I have not broken anything in the NCP. I do see a couple things I need to improve regarding my EP list. I pointed those out to her.

Is it wrong for me to ask her how she thinks I'm doing? I already did so but I don't know if I should do that.

You both said that the BS may not bring it up for various reasons. The way I feel is if I keep bringing it up it will open new wounds or reopen old ones. I don't want to do that any more then I do by her just looking at me.

Don't those wounds need to start healing before serious MBing can take place from both sides?

Today is Broken's birthday. I so want her to enjoy it. The kids are excited for her to have a good day too. They kids were invited to a friend's son's birthday but they said they wanted to be with her. I am planning on taking her and the kids to dinner tonight and I am sure as soon as she awakes the kids will want to give her her gift.

If you are so inclinded please wish her a Happy Birthday.

We have not talked much about us since I have been home but I have tried to. She doesn't want to talk and I am afraid to press her to hard. It hurts me for her not to talk to me but I know I have hurt her more.

I so love her and will not give up.

Have you given any thought to doing the online course?

I have mentioned calling the Harley's but go reaction. I would be will to do the online course but I am not sure she would.

She is seeing a IC. He is willing to see us both but told her she needs to be ready too. I have told her I would gladly see him either alone or together.

She has said she needs to help herself before she can work on us.

dh,

You need to be working on MB, despite what your wife might believe.

If you think that you might recover the marriage, then your approach should be that the two of you should work together on things that would make that happen. The idea that she will "work on herself first" or that idea that you had that she "needs to heal first" will not work.

The healing IS actually done through the process of the two of you working the MB program!

There are things that you do as the WH, which you seem to be working on - which is the EPs, NC. But you are missing the boat if you are not talking about the marriage and the things that the two of you together can do to improve the marriage - things such as radical honesty, discussing the state of the marriage immediately prior to your affair, how you can better meet her emotional needs, what her needs actually are from day to day during her recovery, and what she can do in turn with you to help you improve to help her recover. There may be things that you are doing that are prolonging her pain - and because the two of you are not talking about this.....you are not doing things to help or you continue to do things that DO NOT HELP.

Broken needs to understand that the process of recovery happens whether or not she remains in a relationship with you. At this point, there is at least a situation where you are living together - at least a superficial "attempt" to recover the marriage. To put nothing into it will result in


NOTHING OUT OF IT.


To expect to place all things on the back burner with regard to the marriage until an individual is "healed" is unrealistic, and worse, walking into what I think is likely territory that will not heal the marriage.


It takes two to make the marriage heal. One person standing aside and independently and separately "working on herself" won't do anything toward moving the marriage in any type of positive direction.


It is a plan for failure. IMHO.

It isn't the MB plan, for certain.


SB

Tonight we did talk and although it was not exactly what I wanted to hear I am glad we did none the less. She told me that she told her IC that all the things I have been doing should make her happy but instead make her mad. She wishes that I would have done them long ago.

So do I because we would not be where we are today.

She told me that she still has not decided if this marriage should continue.

I am not going to stop doing the things I have been doing but I also know Ihave to do more. I do want to save this marriage. I can not change the past but I want to think that I am learning from my mistakes and shortfalls.

Tell her that part of loving is in giving, too. That her anger is normal, and her desire to reject what you want to give her is a normal reaction.

I went through this very same thing. I was angry because I wanted so much to have those past missed chances made up...

they can't be made up.


It's like asking to go back and take pictures of the baby that you missed. You can't. Those times have passed, and if you forgot the camera or missed the shot, that ship has sailed. Do we then get angry because the child, now 3, or 5, does something adorable? Do we ignore it, not take a picture, because we missed that picture, or so many chances, way back when?

No. We take MORE pictures now, having learned that lesson.


We purposely take more, we make sure our camera is ready, we make sure that memory stick is in there, and that the batteries are fresh. We even make sure we have back-up batteries on hand.

We have extraordinary precautions, we have plans in place. We go out of our way to do what we should have done

way back then.


Because we have learned that lesson - the hard way. No more missed chances.


To be in the home, but not try...to not participate...to not reach out and make an attempt to recover...because we have not yet decided keeps us stuck. By participating, by giving to one another and working toward meeting the ENs of each other, we can rebuild the love bank.

It is in this process that she might very well make her decision. Meeting your needs might help her reveal her love for you...or might not. It actually could help her find her path.


SB

I would, however, like to note that if she is not ready for SF with you, I would not include that in the ENs. What I am particularly talking about is spending time with you, conversation, recreation, undivided attention....those things.

SF should only come when both spouses are completely ready for that after an affair. She may not be ready for that, and I am completely on board and understand that issue. I do, however, think it would help her decide if she were to work on other ENs with you. And the 15 hours a week with you as well.

SB

Broken and I had a very good weekend together. We had a couple in depth conversations but on the flip side we took the kids to do some sight seeing, bought her a new car and recovered our son's stolen bike. We got to spend some quiet time together which was really nice. It was very nice and both of us enjoyed it.

We still have a long way to go and I know there are still going to be ups and downs but I am optimistic that things will continue to move in a positive direction

It has been a while since I have posted because I have felt that I have gotten enough knowledge to work on things in our marriage.

Something came up last night that I need guidance with.

At about 2 AM broken5sec woke me up and wanted to know what exactly was said in a conversation OW and I had during the A. Previously I told BS that at one point in the A OW and I discussed our A and how we shouldn't be doing it. I know that would have been a perfect time to stop it but I didn't. I do not know why.

Anyway BS wanted to know what was said. That conversation took place probably 14 or 15 months ago. Other then me remembering having that conversation I do not know what exactly was said. Frankly I don't remember details to a lot of the conversations. I can remember some general conversations but not details, dates, where they took place, etc...the kind of things she wants.

All day I have been trying to remember but I can not.

Broken5sec does not want to heat that I don't remember and I understand her point.

What is the best way to deal with this? If I remember the details I have and do tell her. If I do not I tell her so.

I don't like thinking so much about that time. It only increases the remorse I feel for what I have done. I live with a certain degree of remorse everyday and will for the rest of my life.

I can see that BS is still in a great degree of pain, anger and betrayal and I want to help releive that but I feel that I am only increasing it.

Thanks for your words of wisdom.

I would rack your brain to remember as best you can. If you can't remember right away, give yourself time to recall as much details as possible. What will drive her crazy is if you don't try.

There are several points here.

First being the general rule that "once all of the details of the affair are out in the open, it should never be discussed again."

Unfortunately, this seems to be something where your BS feels that there was a detail missing. Or, it could just be a symptom of her dwelling on the A recently. Is there any milestones which have come to pass recently? Are you coinciding with any events/dates?

I certainly wouldn't refrain from answering her question to the best of your ability... beyond that... I don't know what else to tell you. I'm kinda jarring up my frustrations right now trying to avoid talk of the A, as I just see it as counterproductive.

This is true, but that can't come from a WS. It will ring as very self serving if he says that. I was going to say to send her to the board and let me talk to her. But he needs to ante up the truth. Refusing to tell her will cause more harm than discussing it.

There have not been and milestones.

She has told me that she is still having a hard time not dwelling on the A. It has been 9 months since she found out.

She feels we should still be talking about it. She has asked why I never bring it up. I too feel that it is counterproductive to do so.

We have an appointment with the councilor we have been a few times in a week and a half. So far I feel that he has given us good advise and is evenly fair to us both. Maybe he will help with this. We have not seen him in a while.

I have been racking my brain too.