I like plan whatever! lol I think I am BACK to plan A again.... it is really hard to stay in any plan when he is wrapped up in limerence like this and is doing stupid thing after stupid thing!!!

I will say he is absolutely 100% NOT committed to ANY part of our marriage. Divorce has been filed by me and then he filed 2 days later as well. I am FAR from a skank... I guess that's what he likes now.

Whatever decision you make, be strong, confident, and proud knowing you are taking the best possible course of action for you and your kids. Your WH will find out soon enough the extent of his extremely poor choices.

So if your Plan A what is WS top ENs?

How are you meeting them?

Do any of his Top ENs correlate to the 4 Intimate Needs?

All I can say is DUH! He is wayward.

Now can you be a lighthouse to WS and show him that you are going to fight for your marriage?

I feel like I am back in school taking a test! Class doesn't start until Monday!!! lol

The things he was finding in his A were: companionship, conversation, admiration (I am sure even though I have showered him with this even though he didn't with me), and possibly openness ( I have always been honest and open with him too but not so with me).

I TRIED for a long time to be a companion. We used to go weight lift together, go for walks, go shopping, I'd help him outside wash the cars or do something with him while doing yard work. When he started training to run, if we couldn't go to the gym together and run on the tread mills we couldn't go running b/c of our 2 small kids. SOOO... my friend was also running and they ended up running at the same time. Then he was no longer interested in lifting or training with me any more.

Conversation: he was able to have conversations with her (intimate at that) b/c they were running without kids OR interruptions. Try doing that with your spouse.... at the gym, we usually had to go change a diaper or couldn't talk over the loudness. At home, I would try to talk to him at night and he often times was uninterested OR would fall asleep while I was talking. (Especially when I would talk about how I was feeling depressed or stressed or the like.... and how I needed his help a little bit more b/c of it)

Admiration: I made sure that I told him he was a good dad, complimented him, thanked him for going to work on a regular basis (and showed it too by surprising him with delicious lunches at work or making him a lunch to take, etc), left messages on his protein bars so he would see it when he opened it to remind him of something). However, this is also a need of mine and something I told him he wasn't ever giving to me.... and I needed. Nothing ever came out of it.... it was always about him and what he seemed to need. (hence, the EA). Sometimes I show my emotions rather than tell (like making sure I bought him healthy food he liked while losing weight, etc)

Openness: I always tell him what I am thinking and feeling... maybe this pushed him away but was something he got in the affair.

Forgive me but I don't seem to remember what the 4 intimate needs are.

I have been TRYING to meet those needs even today. However, he isn't living here any more and won't speak to me at all. We were having conversations back in September that were allowing us to share openly, honestly, and intimately and things SEEMED to be turning around. Within 3 weeks, he no longer wanted to do them and then he said he wanted a divorce. (She seemed to be back in the picture). Because he won't talk to me, I write letters or emails to express how I feel. If he reads them or not is another story... I can't get him to stay here long enough to have a conversation or to meet me somewhere to talk (he sees that as a "date" and that must be reserved for the skank.)

I know he is wayward!!! I see him as an addict and nothing more. I was just stating that he is 100% not committed for anyone else that was possibly questioning.

As I said, I am trying to get him to come to a conference with me and he is entertaining it. you can read about it at marriagehelper.com

They deal A LOT with limerent spouses. He has read his needs, her needs after he admitted the emotional affair. However, he seemed to only use that to help with his skank. I tried for months to be patient, kind, do things for him, try to talk and listen..... but he just simply didn't want to have anything to do with it. I have been fighting for our marriage and have told him that divorce wasn't the answer and that I wanted to fight and work on it. His excuse: I have worked on our marriage and look where we are. (Duh... smoke screen.) I asked for examples... he said we had more sex and he made the bed in the morning to help me out. I said but what did you do for US? Did you initiate going away or spending time together just us or intimate conversations?? No.... it was always me. I brought these things up multiple times over the last year and he just simply ignored it, If I planned it, he would go. I finally said that he needed to start initiating more things as a couple and not rely on me to do it. He also needed to become more responsible and help me out around the house and carry his load. When all this stuff started happening (my dad was getting ready for brain surgery), he checked out in every way possible and then started his e-a within 2 mos.

Under what terms/grounds do you think the TRO would be possible?

So... how do I go about doing this without screwing up the chances for him to go to the conference with me??? The counselors from the conference said I needed to get to his level and make him think that I agree that the marriage is over and I have accepted it since he won't work on it. I have written him a letter stating that I love him and how I wanted to work with him on building a marriage that meet both of our own needs, and that of our family. He said it doesn't matter what I want or how I feel... it is over and he is doing nothing else to fix it and he is NEVER (ha, never say never) returning to this house or living with me ever again. He says he doesn't love me any more and he just wants to move on with his life and finally be happy. And, he wants to co-raise the boys together and this is what's best for everyone.

Haha.... what a bunch of bs. Any suggestions?

NLF,

Give it time, what this stink/stank/stunk/skank did with him she will do to him. Reminds me of the phrases George Carlin used to say you never hear. One of which might have been.

"I married this women who cheated with me on my wife, but we both changed into honorable people and lived a full, successful and happy life together, and ended up with our good names restored as if nothing happened"

But seriously one of the things you do need to look out for is that the OW might bring misc. drugged out/swinger/low lifes around your children, if H leaves them with her so he can step out. She is not a suitable Mother by any definition.

God Bless
Gamma

Well, as I stated before, she basically already has cheated on him by swinging with another man while in an EA with WH. And, for the record, she does have a record of cheating on her bfs in the past. He knows this and claims, she has changed. Well, it is obvious she hasn't b/c she just cheated on her husband with you, and then cheated on you AND her husband with some other guy within the last 7 mos or so. Seriously... I know it's the smoke screen but still. I DON'T want her and her poor morals around MY children adn that's much of the reason why I think I didn't want to be friends with her many months ago and asked my WH to not do stuff with them any more. And, the ones I really feel sorry for are her OWN 3 children. Lord knows how often WH stays over there w/o my kids and seeing what her kids are being subjected to. At this point, I don't think he is a very suitable/responsible father to my kids either.

Call them? The more people exposed to, the better.

His parents, and hers, obviously know that they are having an affair. She is now divorced. His parents know as well and allow her over on the weekends to visit, mom and sister are friends with her on Facebook, attend outings and such with Wh and OW with the kids, etc. However, I don't think the parents and families know about the swinging and the other things that have happened. THIS is what I am wondering I should release as I think it will possibly burst the bubble and may start making him realize what a mistake a relationship down the road will be with her, and is already.

BUMP

What should I do since exposure hasn't worked thus far???

The A has been exposed to MANY people. Families, friends, neighbors, the whole town it seems.... but yet their relationship keeps ticking on. My WH has basically pushed away all friends and it seems the OW has possibly done the same. They do stuff together now (around town nontheless), and are ALWAYS getting all the kids together. My H even stays the night at her house with our 2 kids (which I am TOTALLY against and made an agreement with him to not do this.) It seems they have developed this us against the world mentality and it seems that even though their families know about it, both sides are condoning it. (The OW mother accidentally sent me a pic of the OW and her kids that was intended for my WH.) co-workers know and have spoken to him and tried to tell him to stop and he is losing a good thing etx. He just says he hasn't been happy for so long. I don't buy the smoke screen.

I have tried writing the letter to express my love to him and that pushed him away. I avoided the angry outbursts, judgments and demands. They worked for about a month after he left, and then he got back in touch with her and the PA started. Then he started coming back around again, we were talking, eating dinner together, I was doing the above still, things were turning around.... they started talking more and the next thing I knew was they both were asking their spouses for divorces. My wh will only speak to me about things relating to the kids and it's usually only by email. I tried not talking to him but then my attorney said I couldn't do that b/c of communicating for the kids, etc.

I guess I will possibly have to go back to Plan B however I have to communicate iwth him about the kids and this is the only thing he will discuss with me. He has no interest in our house or anything that goes on around here and hasn't since July.

Tips on what to do now???

nlf,

I'm dubious about this conference. I have never heard of a strategy that involves what you say in a later post: your giving the impression that you agree that the marriage is over. If you give that impression, how is your H supposed to know that you want the affair to end and him to return home?

If you wish to "to pop his bubble and bring him back to reality and make him realize what he is doing", you need to be in a proper Plan B, not the mixture of Plans A and B that you seem to be stuck in. A proper Plan B involves no direct communication with WS. You use an intermediary (IM) to hand all crucial messages about the children.

How old are the children?

MelodyLane created a thread called "what is Plan B" yesterday. I will bump it for you. Please read it carefully

Thanks! As far as the conference goes, the plan is to just GET him there. They said often times people have to say that you are accepting his decision and going to the conference will help working on communication.

He told me when I first brought up the conference (a while back) that I wanted to go to the conference to see if there was any chance we could rebuild things b/c I didn't want our marriage to end. He said that he was done with me.... he wasn't going to a conference or counseling and that we should just move forward with the divorce that way we can both just move on and be happy with our lives. He called a few weeks ago about the conference and the guy gave him all the info and even told him that it turns around 3 out of 4 marriages, even in infidelity and when one spouse doesn't want to be there. This conference is kind of my last hope since I have tried plan a and plan b since all this came out (last spring). I did plan b over the summer after he left and even refused to answer his phone calls. Then he would just show up at the house to spend time with the kids. I often left. There was nothing I could do b/c it is still his house AND he was paying the bills. Then as I said things started to get better, he started coming around, we started discussing things and then he would go right back into it with her. He is very stuck in limerence..... nothing is getting through to him. Not even his closest friends, the ones he has left.

First off what is IM?

Second, how do I handle visitations?? We now have set visitations b/c he is now interested in seeing the kids where he really wasn't before and wasn't calling to talk to the kids either??

From what I've read, "limerance" is a concept invented to describe being stupidly infatuated with someone. It isn't a real, scientifically-recognised thing (that I have found).

What have you read about the treatment of "limerance"?

My understanding is that affair feelings are on a continuum from "just sex" to "I can't live without her". All affairees are somewhere on that continuum. I believe Dr Harley writes this in his book Surviving an Affair. "Limerance" is an invented term to describe the extreme end.

A "just sex" affair is likely to easy for the WS to give up, and a so-called "limerance" affair will be very hard. However, using Dr Harley's programme, the treatment by the BS is the same if the affair is not given up immediately: Plan A followed by Plan B. Plan B should be adopted about a month after staring Plan A, in the case of a WH/BW, so you should be in Plan B.

So the bribe, that you agree that the marriage is over, is only to get WH to the conference? It won't be said DURING the conference?

Soon after the conference would seem to be the ideal time to send a new Plan B letter. If WH does not commit to the marriage straight after this supposedly 75% successful technique, then I would ditch paying for the method and counsellors and not look back.

Do you have a copy of Surviving an Affair? If not, please order one immediately from the bookshop here.

Details are on the thread I bumped. Have you read it yet?