Hummingbird asked me to take her H's bad characteristics and flip them over to uncover possibly his good characteristics.<P>I am a great believer in that each of our character traits show themselves in our personality in both the positive and the negative. For instance, I'm easy going go with the flow type...that's good, but the flip side is I tend to be disortanized and often unfocused...that's not so good. However, both the positive and the negative result from the same trait. <P>We are accountable for the totality of our actions and personalities. However, sometimes understanding the dynamics of our or our spouse's personalities, can help us percieve our situation differently and aid our communications. <P>Looking at the same trait's positive and negative sides can also show us how unreasonable it is to want our spouse to keep the positive side, and not only eliminate the negative, but to add a conflicting positive.<P>Example, if my H wanted me to be flexible, but also extremely organized, that would make us both nuts and most likely fail in the long term. If however he respected my flexibility, understood my bent toward disorganization and coached me to be more organized in areas that were important in our marriage, but did not expect me to become obsessively organized overall, then this would have a much higher chance of success as long as I was willing to modify my behavior and accept assistance.<P>On a different topic, we also have to take a look at nature vs. nuture. Once again we are all accountable for your actions, no matter what our past involved. However, in Hummingbird's case, her H had a really nasty childhood and unfortunatey brought a lot of vile baggage with him. Some of his less desirable traits may not be so much inborn as learned. Understanding our pasts can make us a little more sympathetic. Although it is always difficult to change assumptions you formulated during childhood and the resulting behavior patterns, it can happen if a person wants it to happen and has the loving support they need. Sometimes rotten behavior is a habit that results from not being taught properly or associating with others who exhibit the same habit. Swearing is a good example of that.<P>Without knowing Hummingbird's H, it is impossible to know how much of his behavior comes from natural bents, or from bad baggage or bad habits. Hummingbird's perception of the following traits may not be accurate and some of these traits may be the product of Hum's H's insecurity based on the problems from the effects of Hum's undisclosed affair. <P>However, the following are the traits Hummingbird gave me to "flip", so here it goes.<P>Selfish<BR>Jealous<BR>Possessive<BR>Bad Temper, very short fuse<BR>Swears<BR>Spends money like crazy<BR>Disrepectful<BR>No patience<BR>Never satisfied (always looks at the glass half empty)<BR>Very Stubborn<P>Flip side of:<BR>Possessive/Jealous<BR> * Passionately loyal<BR> * When things are good, he is probibly attentive, at least in his own way.<BR> * Emotionally invested in the relationship<BR> * Sees the two of you clearly as a couple<P>Selfish<BR> * Focused<BR> * Knows what he wants (or think he does) and takes action to get it.<BR> * Likes nice things<BR> * Decisive<P>Anger (may be partially a function of poor childhood role models of resolving conflict or frustration)<BR> * Capacity for passion<BR> * Gets it out/doesn't hold grudges<BR> * Strong personality<P>Swears (Habit, has no redeeming flip side. Was learned, can be unlearned with desire and hard work)<P>Spends money like crazy (may be trying to fill hole from childhood or current problems or may be a function of selfishness)<BR> * Or may be gregacious or generous<BR> * Likes to have fun, live for the moment, which is sometimes good for the relationship if it balances the more conservative nature of spouse, but is not excessive.<P>Disrespect (could be a result of not being taught to respect in childhood)<BR> * Thinking for one's self<BR> * Skeptical of status quo<BR> * Inventive<BR> * Self sufficient<P>Impatient (may be lack of empathy, the ability to put oneself in the shoes of another)<BR> * Quick mind/ capable & good at many things.<BR> * Does not procrastinate<BR> * Takes charge and acts in a situation<BR> * Leads or makes own way rather than follows<P>Never satisfied/Pesimist? (May be result of self-esteem issues from childhood)<BR> * Cautious or safe<BR> * Realist/grounded<BR> * Reliable/dependable<BR> * High asperations or goals and has itch to go after them.<P>Very Stubborn <BR> * Strong beliefs or convictions (good or bad, true or false)<BR> * Persistant/does not give up<BR> * Strong personality<BR> * Not easily influenced<P>Obviously many of these are entwined and associated.<P>So Hummingbird, what do you think?<P><BR> <BR> <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL,<P>Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you know how wonderful you are?!!! You really made me smile today YES, you are so right on with almost everything!!! I can't believe it!<P>My husband did have a terrible childhood and I truly believe alot of his problems comes his upbringing. Lot of vile baggage. These traits were definitely learned! Example: I was at a Christening this Sunday, his sister had a baby, a little girl, she asked me to the godmother, which is a real honor. But getting to my point is that later on at the family reception everyone was mingling and I was speaking to an Aunt (his mother's sister) she noticed my husband going for ANOTHER beer, she said to me "are you paying attention to him?" and I said "kindof, I think it's his 4th or 5th (between 2:00-5:00Pm) and I said "he has to have at least 2 beers everynight after work, sometimes 3 and more on the weekends, but it never affects his personality, he never gets drunk, he just loves his beer" (he used to smoke when we first got married 2-3 packs a day) he quit for me but then started drinking beer. She said to me "well you better watch him, he has alcoholism on both sides of the family and did they tell you everything about his father, his father was very nasty and used to hit my sister, you know Bill (my husband) used to always try and protect my sister and got into voilent fights his dad". I said "I know, I know everything."<P>My husband was not raised in a very loving household, it was "fend for yourself".<P>Yes, FHL my husband is very loyal, he can be attentive, emotionally invested - I guess he is but he has a hard time opening up to me, it's like pulling teeth. I know he would NEVER cheat on me. He does see us as a couple and I know he thinks of me often.<P>He is very focused on projects like work, and he is very organized and precise. Everything is always in order, his shed, his tools, the garage, he a neat freak, likes everything in order in it's place. Likes things his way, he knows what he wants and doesn't second guess it. He always wants the best. My husband also does not "sugarcoat" anything, he can be very blunt, he speaks his mind, tells it like it is, sometimes before thinking of someone's feelings.<P>However, FHL he is undecisive about children, or does take a "whatever you want" attitude with things. But then I pay for it later cause he seems to resent it. I've told him don't do me any favors if your going to have an attitude or be upset later.<P>He has a VERY strong personality. He is a leader, never is a follower, he does things his way and if you don't like it too bad. One of my good friends teasing him about it. Has a nickname for him: "Father Knowledge". He always knows the best way to do something and his way is the best way. He will NEVER put up with someone's **** either, he stands up for himself, he gets mad at me for being passive and letting people walk all over me all the time. I have a hard time saying No. <P>He does holds grudges though, if someone wrongs him, watch out, he'll never forgive or will he forget. He believes in "what goes around, comes around" and believes in getting even. He holds alot inside and then explodes at me for little reason, later I find out he mad from a week ago.<P>He is very self sufficent, doesn't want to rely on anyone. Will NEVER ask for help will try to do everything himself even if it kills him. He is actually inventive, always thinking of little ways to do things better, this can be very funny at times.<P>He has a very quick mind! Very quick thinker, and hates people who procratinate! He is sooo punctional it's scary, actually has to be 10 minutes early for everything! He feels everyone's time is important, no one should have wait for someone else, that's very inconsiderate.<P>My husband is Mr. Reliable and well grounded. Not a fanstasy man at all. Cautious and safe is questionable, in regards to others more than himself. He has very high aspirations and goals, he feels when you slow down that's when you get old, and you are judged by what you achieve in life, people who are satisfied with the way things are, are lazy, not go getters, you have to always strive to better yourself that's how you achieve success.<P>He is not easily influenced at all and is so persistent, it's tiring to me. He will just keep at it until he gets satisfied, "if first you don't succeed, try, try again".<P>He is very generous with gifts for family and friends. Never questions me on anything I buy, will only ask if I'm happy and always tells me to get whatever I want. He says "you only live once, you like something, buy it". He does care about our bills being paid but savings is another story. He says "why save for tomorrow, we don't know we'll be around tomorrow".<P>FHL, you really helped me see things clearer. I realize this was a real challenge and it helped me so much the good qualities in my husband. I printed this out and I'm going to read it all a few times. <P>I've been focusing on all the bad qualities and really couldn't see through it. You've truly helped me to see.<P>I wish I could kiss you. Big hug !!!<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited October 27, 1999).]

Hummingbird, you are most welcome.<P>I think my H is like yours in many ways. He however was blessed with a fairly normal family (mom a little nutty). He does not have much of a temper, either.<P>He is extremely self sufficient, I kid him about reiventing the wheel if he could.<P>He is not as organized or neat as your H, but can clean up a storm when he feels like it and checks everything off of his to-do lists.<P>He's a little bit, "I think, therefore it is, or at least should be."<P>Of course, aren't we all.<P>I am so happy that I was a positive influence for you.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

OK, I'll bite.<P>Here are MY primary negative traits:<P>Anxious<BR>Insecure<BR>Pessimistic<BR>Martyr complex<BR>Overweight<BR>Tend to fixate on things I can't solve<BR>Control freak/always right <BR>My own worst critic<BR>Worry too much<BR>Worry too much<BR>Worry too much<BR>Worry too much<BR>Worry too much<BR>Obsess about what I have to do instead of doing it<P>Here are H's primary negative traits:<P>Short-tempered<BR>Lack of empathy<BR>Thoughtless; insensitive to my feelings<BR>Messy<BR>Irresponsible with money <BR>Forgets to do things<BR>Won't do anything he doesn't want to do (except go to work)<P>OK, FHL...go to town!<P>

Hum--<P>This is going to sound crazy...but, what's your husbands sign?<P>Pam

Dazed,<BR>Printing this out and taking to daughter's BBall tourney tonight.<P>Check tomorrow!<P>Been thinking about you!

FHL,<P>Big hug again! <P>Even though my husband has a very hard shell, he is very sensitive. His feelings are easily hurt (but won't admit it). <P>He has very low self-confidence and loves my attention. Loves when I praise him and when I make him feel so special. I have to always to tell him how good he is at something or give him encouragement.<P>I've been putting his self-confidence down alot lately . <P>Thanks FHL for making me see.

Holly,<P>My husband is a Gemini! The true double personality sign!<P>Why? What's your husbands?

Oy vey mahogany.<P>So's mine (Gemini).

Oh dazed!!!<P>That's too scary! You know what you though, and get ready for this, my OM is also a Gemini! He's b-day is 1 week after my husband's!!<P>

My husband is a Taurus...very stable, metodical, grounded<BR>I'm an Aries...very spontaneous, impatient<P>Sometimes I find him boring and he finds me too energetic!<P>I asked what your husbands sign was because he actually sounds alot like me...I tend to have a short fuse and I have absolutely NO patience. My husband will often tell me I'm selfish and that I'm never satisfied.<P>I also have a hard shell...but I'm very sensitive and LOVE to get admiration from my husband. I guess I have low self-esteem too. God, I'm a mess!<P>I also tend to be a leader and usually take control of things because, again, I have no patience for people who sit idle...like my husband often does. I'm very punctual, like your husband, and hate people who keep me waiting!<P>I also can be revengeful when someone does me wrong...but it doesn't usually last long and I don't hold a grudge because I usually move on to the next thing.<P>I also spend too much money.<P>So, basically I sound exactly like your husband! You still like me...right! <P>BTW---I just bought the book "The Grief Recovery Handbook". I haven't begun to read it yet...but, it discusses losses of any sort, from death of a pet to financial problems. It discusses how to move on and regain zest for life again. I think that's my biggest problem at this point...life just doesn't excite me like it used to. I'm hoping the book will help me get over my move and the loss of the OM...both have these have been a HUGE downer for me. The book is by John W. James and Russell Friedman if you want to buy it for yourself. <P>

Holly,<P>I think your great !! <P>The flip side to most of my husband's bad qualities I do admire and wish I had them.<P>I wish I was a leader, but I'm not. I follow along with everyone else. I'm afraid to voice my opinion for fear of being let down, I have low self confidence too. <P>Some of my friends make fun of me for being too frugal!! They say "come on buy that dress it's on sale!". Sometimes I feel I should let go alittle.<P>I'm not really revengeful but I let people walk all over me, and I get hurt. I'm not aggressive at all, I tell myself all the time to be more assertive, take charge, and I never do.<P>I'm late alot Holly, I have tons of patience but I like to take my time, I hate to rush. Why go through life rushing, it goes by fast enough. But I know it iritates alot of people.<P>My husband calls me boring too. I should be more outgoing and do more activities.<P>So Holly you still like me?

Actually Hummingbird, I'm have a lot of your characteristics, and I admire my H's good characteristics, too.<P>I'm always the last one eating. I'm usually not late, but just under the wire, with everything. I don't rush and others sometimes smuggly make sure I know they are irritated by my pace. <P>I usually voice my opinion when asked, unless one of those "values" are crossed, then I can be quite forceful.<P>I made a deal with myself. If I can't say no and do something I don't particularly want to do, I can not complain or hold a grudge, because it was my lousy choice. That deal has actually made me more assertive, because I got tired of scolding myself.<P>I have tons of patience, except with people uninterested in learning and growing.<P>I'm conservative and am more frugal than I in most areas, but I encourage him to spend a disportionate amount of our disposable income on recreation because it is so important to him, and I'm not materialistic, so I'm content with what I have.<P>However, I tend to be a little of a free spirit and can be a little of a "fluff brain", although people who know me respect my intelligence, honesty, even temper and flexibility.<P>I don't think my H finds me boring, but he does wish I would be a little more daring. <P>I think my self esteem is very good, and I stopped seeking the world's approval, but desperately want my H's.<P>I think I have always been blessed with seeing the best in people and putting the best construction on any situation. Although when necessary I do not hesitate to hold people's feet to the fire.<P>So, Hummingbird, we share quite a bit, don't we? <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I just had to bite on one thing:<P>The signs - <P>BOTH my H and the OM are Leo's...<P>I'm a Saggitarius...<P>Two fire signs, two passionate signs... my best friend is a Leo, one of my daughter's is a Leo... I'm surrounded by them!! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>