He is just really closed minded and doesn't share with anyone his true thoughts or feelings. I would guarantee that he didn't even tell her everything. He HATES anyone knowing what is going on in his mind.

I honestly do not believe the A is still current or that they have made contact. Just in the way he is communicating with me I see that he is just closing the whole thing off in his head.

Their plan is to move in the next 2 weeks.

But that doesn't explain his waywardness. He is very angry and doesn't want you snooping. That is a sign of waywardness.

I think living next door to them is killing your marriage. Can you pack up and go to a hotel for 2 weeks?

We really cannot afford the extra money. We just purchased a used vehicle for our daughter which will allow us better transportation for her and our son if we decide to live apart. I work an hour away from home.

We are working diligently to pay off current bills and such to ensure we are financially stable enough for whatever comes. I explained the when he came back the last time that I absolutely hated that together we are finacially stable and no risk for loans. Alone, I couldn't even get a $5,000 loan b/c of our combined "normal" debt with house, cars, etc.

So staying somewhere else isn't finacially possible while we wait for them to move. Maybe being in separate rooms in the house will give us each our needed space right now.

I am mandating to myself that I am not going to him for any conversation outside of our children's routine/dinner/etc. I will not look for loving gestures or try to pry into his thoughts. I'm not even up for making love deposits right now.

I will concentrate on my kiddos, my master's class, and work right now alone. I'll concentrate my efforts not to think about our marriage for a while and just let time heal some things as he has asked.

Is this a crazy plan?? I just feel like I've been running myself into a brick wall for the past few months. I can't keep looking to him for answers and compassion he isnt fully willing to give on his own.

Live, I guess the best you can do is ride this out for 2 weeks and see if he changes. And I would stop bringing this up and stop prying into his thoughts. Focus on being as pleasant and attractive as possible. What a nightmare situation.

Found out where all of the frustrations were coming from. I talked again to him tonight and his first comment was "I thought we were working on trust"! He told me that about 3 weeks ago the hatch to the SUV door was open and he couldn't figure out how it could have happened when he locked the while in the gym. He found a GPS device in the back of the vehicle.

He said he just tried to accept that this was my way of validating he wasn't doing anything wrong. It does explain exactly why I felt him start to pull away though. I was being pleasant and expressing my hope for us...while he thought I was tracking him.

Then this morning happened...he thinks that I meet with the OWH to discuss things in private to get back at them both. I have not and expressed that every time I've talked with the OWH, I've immediately told my WH.

Well, when we left on angry terms from that discussion this morning, he got to his office and immediately texted me asking when I had been in his office that night/morning. He said that he had left clues that would prove someone was in there and it was OBVIOUS someone was. I explained I again had nothing at all to do with this. My only thought is that the OWH hired someone to track my WH. He didn't tell me this and I was NOOOO part of it. But, I can understand why my WH would be upset with me because I display positive emotion and want good things, but he thinks I'm being lying and deceiptful at the same time.

We have NO TRUST. I can't make him believe I had no part in this whole thing, but when I told him that because of how he was acting I did place the recorder back in his office 2 weeks ago but have not retrieved it. I also told him that I purchased a GPS of my own but haven't even activated it. This to me proves that I didn't put one on his vehicle 3 weeks ago, because why would I buy one then. BUT, now he is angry b/c I reacted to his pulling away and anger by doing the exact same thing the OWH did. I just asked him to please keep the timeline in mind when he thinks about it and gets angry. I had not tried to monitor him at all since he came back home in late Nov. I only did so when he pulled away and started getting anry at every little thing. This was a repeat of the last time when he really was lying and still talking to her.

What a horrible mess. HOw do we ever get our trust back? He is dead inside right now and not willing to committ to anything. I told him that him being in a separate room will help him keep his space and give me a chance to try and become more stable.

thanks for your thoughts and adivce.

Live, I would explain to him that he can trust you, that he can trust you to spy on him for the rest of your life so you can protect yourself. Tell him this is your pledge and promise that where-ever he is, whatever he is doing, as long as he is married to you, that you will be watching every move he makes. LIKE A HAWK. So if he doesn't want to get caught doing something wrong, he might oughta not do anything wrong. BECAUSE YOU WILL BE WATCHING.

And if doesn't like it, he shouldn't be married. Because you have a right to know each and everything he does since his actions affect you. It was too much trust that led to his affair and you won't be making the same mistake again.

See, the reason your husband is furious is because he knows he can't sneak off and see the OW. He is trying to manipulate you into feeling guilty for doing something you should have been doing a long time ago: WATCHING HIM LIKE A HAWK.

So, go in there and give him your pledge and promise that he can TRUST you to watch his sneaky [censored] where-ever he goes!!

here

here

Live, your WH has succeeded into blameshifting the whole mess entirely onto you. He is taking zero responsibility for his cheating but instead has deflected all the blame onto you, and has bullied you into cowing down and accepting it.


If he had not cheated and lied and allowed the OW to invade your family, you would not have had to spy on him to get the truth about your own life. You had every right and every responsibility to protect your family, and it fell to you since he totally abdicated his own responsibility to protect it.

He is acting 100% like an active wayward. Either he's still with the hag next door or else he's got something new started up somewhere else.

Stop letting him bully you into taking the blame for his lies and his cheating and his destruction of your marriage. You will almost certainly need Plan B before this is over, both to protect yourself from any more emotional abuse and because he will never even notice anything else.

He is upset because he is trying to get ahold of the OW and can't get past you and the OWH. You need to tell him that a) you will be snooping like a blood hound and b) you will NEVER EVER TELL HIM YOUR RESOURCES. NEVER.

You should never tell him your sources, Live. And you should also tell him that you see right through his anger. A person who has nothing to hide, does not hide. If he had nothing to hide, HE WOULD INVITE YOUR SCRUTINY because he would be anxious clear his good name.

He is gaslighting you in a huge way and you need to put a stop to it!!

Also tell him he can count on you...he can count on you to use any and all technology at your disposal to watch him.

Don't try to convince him it wasn't you when things happen. Just say with faint surprise in your voice, "Oh, THAT one wasn't me..." as if there are 1,001 other ones he doesn't know about yet.

Trust isn't built by not snooping, it's built by snooping for a long time and finding nothing NOTHING to worry about.

Be PROUD of your snooping!!! It proves you care.

"Honey, I'm just demonstrating how important you are to me."

Yep, just tell him SNOOPING HELPS ME TRUST YOU MORE!!

Also, when then-WH was trying to hide C from me, he repeatedly referred to me sarcastically as his "parole officer".

When he was no longer hiding anything, he appreciated the chance I gave him to show that he was being trustworthy...by snooping and snooping and finding that he was still in NC.

(PS When you're married, it's not really snooping.)

BTW he told me again tonight that he is very sorry he did this and hurt me and he kiddos the way he did...and that he takes all the blame...not to be upset with myself or angry or sad with myself with how I am dealing with everything because he accepts ALL responsibility for what he did that is what caused all of this backlash. He is trying to deal with how I'm dealing...he isn't sure if he can keep going round and round with everything.

What kills me is, if he found out 3 weeks ago about the GPS that I didn't put in his vehicle and he was dealing with it b/c he knew I was validating...why now is he mad at me when I told him the truth?? One was me and the other wasn't...I was just reacting to his behavior. I just cant stand that the OWH did this and I'm catching the crap from it.

All that you've all said makes soo much sense...you haven't been wrong yet. I will tell him and he wont like it, but will have to deal with it. Building boundries and allowing me to snoop all that I want is the only way to survive from now on.

If he can't take it from now on, we won't make it. He told me today that he doesn't think I will ever be able to let this all go. He thinks I will rehash it over and over for years to come and he doesn't think he can handle that. He is the type of person that can get things dealt with and move on. That is the military person in him. Clear the trash out and move on.

I'm worried that building an unstable foundation to our new marriage by not dealing fully with all of this right now will not work.

I'm clamming up and not saying anything...trying to do the love building and avoid love busters. Time and God will tell.

You are allowing him to GASLIGHT YOU and are training him to believe this is an effective tactic. You need to disabuse him of this notion now before it gets worse. You know he is gaslighting you, Live. I know you do.

People who have nothing to hide don't hide.


No, your HUSBAND DID THIS. And he is being an [censored] about it. The OWH did nothing wrong, your H DID.

p.s. since your H is being so manipulative, I would strongly suggest you plan a call with the OWH EVERY DAY so you can compare notes until they leave. Make sure your husband knows this is the plan.

His sneaky, wayward behavior should put you on RED ALERT. And he needs to know you know it.

This is just more of the same blameshifting that he's been doing all along. He is making threats to get you to back off and stop bugging him about his cheating.

Yes, you said earlier that he apologized, but I would not trust one word of it - not if he's still spewing stuff like I quoted above. That "apology" was just another attempt to get you to stop asking questions and get off his back. He just temporarily switched from bullying to bribing to see which one works best.

Translation of above quote: "If you don't stop interfering with my affair, I'll leave you."

If he is truly sorry, he won't be able to apologize to you enough - and his words will be followed by actions. There's nothing of that here - just an "apology" followed by a threat to leave you if you don't back off.

Nothing here has changed.

We had a family meeting with the kids this morning so they would know why he is living upstairs in the extra bedroom now. I just wanted to tell the kids we needed our space and leave it at that. So, the conversation started with me telling them the good news about the OW/OWH moving in a few weeks. I told them that when I went to tell their dad, he and I had a significant disagreement about how things were going between us.

He didn't want to seem like the bad guy so he told them it was only fair to let them know how he had been tracked and followed and bugged. He told the kids that he doesn't trust me and they kind of laughed and said that he was the one that did the ultimate wrong not me...I think they understand my need to validate, but I didn't want them thinking I had anything to do with the OWH having things done to their Dad.

Long story short, my 15 yr old DD told him that it sounds like to her that we have to get to counseling to help us learn to trust each other and communicate. He flatly refuses even to her.
He told her he is done talking about it and will not rehash it any longer.

I'm not budging this time. Either he does something different or he is gone as soon as we are financially able to be. Our family will survive even if it will change our lifestyle significantly. At least I'll be free of him trying to make me feel guilty for how I am reacting and trying to heal from his error in judgement.

That is crazy for him to tell those kids that you can't be trusted for spying on him.... That is freaky. And to LIE about the reasons he is sleeping upstairs? WHY? Why would you enable his bad behavior and make this problem WORSE? That is the kind of stuff that makes a kid go "gee, reality sure doesn't seem like it looks. Must be something wrong with my head."

I think thats ok for you to allow him to gaslight YOU if you want to be gaslit, but these are YOUR KIDS. Do you know how that can screw with the head of a kid? I DO and it is not fun. What it does is make the child doubt his grasp of reality and doubt his own ability to perceive the world. It is a very scary feeling.

Live, this needs to stopped. You are allowing your H to gaslight you and the kids and he will never wake up unless you put a stop to it. Your H is staying upstairs because he is acting like a child and threw a fit when he discovered one of his victims was RIGHTFULLY TRACKING HIM. The OWH has every right and reason to spy on your husband and so do you. WHY LIE TO THE KIDS ABOUT THAT??

What are you doing? I view your approach as damaging as HIS. Someone there needs to be able to clear away the fog.


WHY NOT? Did the OWH do something wrong? This is what is insane. You are acting like it was the OWH who did something wrong instead of your H! You need to stop going along with this craziness. Tell your H the OWH did nothing wrong. Tell your children the truth. Act like a PARENT, Live, instead of going along with the fogbabble of a wayward. Dont' allow him to gaslight those children too!

Gaslighting is extreme emotional abuse and my xh did it to me and tried to do it to our then, very small son.

He still tries now to my ds btw. I won't allow it.

Your kids need to know the truth. Daddy is upstairs because he lied to mommy and to his family and had a secret relationship with a woman. That's what my son learned.

If you go along with things, he will blame and switch all the rest of your marriage. My xh did the same thing, esp about the blameshifting.

YOU weren't the cause of anything, it was your WS' actions that caused you to lose trust. It was the cheating. Problems in your M aren't b/c you "can't let it go" but instead the real problem is with his cheating and lying and he needs to know that.

If your M doesn't survive it will because he chooses to remain wayward, NOT because of what you do or don't do. The problems exist because WH created them. He needs to learn and understand to accept the truth. Please don't let him gaslight you and the kids or make you think that an alternate reality IS the truth.

He simply refuses to accept what he did. My xwh has narcissistic personality disorder and cannot accept he has any mental or personal or character flaw. Thus, he is still screwed up and getting another divorce. Your WH needs to realize that the truth is good. Not bad.

It's only bad to liars when they're trying to keep their lie or sin a secret. That's the only reason why truth could ever be perceived as bad (my old counselor told me this about five years ago).