Hey schtoop, good to hear that things are still moving along so well! The paragraph above is definitely something to keep an eye on, and it sounds like you are doing that. But all the more reason to give things lots of time, as it is only after a long period of time that it will beocme more clear whether or not she can be content with having to share you with the kids - some folks do this easily, others don't.

AGG

Talk about you guys hitting the nail on the head.

I decided to resurrect and update my thread and amazingly enough this was the last reply.

This past weekend we�ve had the first big �adjustment� in our relationship since we�ve been seeing each other.

I�ve been seeing the same woman since October and we grew together very quickly and intensely. I know all the warnings about rebound relationships and not falling for the first one you go out with, but there has been such chemistry and things felt so natural that we have just let things take their course.

Well, we have been spending so much time together and have grown so close that we began to think along the lines of �what if� and �maybe� in terms of a long-term future. No making plans or anything concrete like that, but she did commit to being exclusive for the first time. �If we�re together, then let�s BE together� was how she put it, which was good for me too. I saw it as more actively building for the future rather than passively watching what develops. This new commitment also went hand in hand with spending more time with me and the boys.

Well, along those lines we had planned a dinner out with the boys and then maybe to a movie afterwards. My oldest son (who can be very self-centered and disrespectful at times) showed up in a foul mood and was really showing his butt. He wanted to stay and play with his friends instead of going out, so he voiced his displeasure and pouted to a degree at having to go. My girlfriend viewed this as lashing out at her and really got her feelings hurt. While that may have been a part of it, most of the hostility was that he just didn�t want to go out that night and is used to getting his way.

Anyway, dealing with all of this demonstrated to her what we both already knew deep down. All of her children are grown and out of the house and she doesn�t really desire to be that involved with young children again, which she certainly would be if we were truly �together�. That evening was like getting slapped in the face by reality to her and seeing the possibility of a long-term future kind of crumble. We took her home right after dinner and she spent the night crying with a good friend.

We have decided to pull back a little and just enjoy each other when we can. That doesn�t mean that a long-term future is now out of the question, just that we will take it more slowly and not push nearly as hard. And, also accept the limitations of our situation if they become limitations.
We have spent a couple of very nice afternoons and evening together since then, but I think we�re both feeling a little sense of distance that we haven�t before. I hope that feeling goes away with more time, this is the first time we�ve had to pull back. But, I am also a little worried that the distance could grow.

Is she familiar with MB principles? I understand that you've backed off but in reality is that what either of you really want? If not, time to POJA the kid thing schtoop.

schtoop,

I am really interested to see what kind of advice you get from the people here. The scenario you described with your son is exactly what I dread. My 10 yr old has said flat out that he is not going to be happy if I bring someone home and he will be rude to him. So I dread this....I guess it is lucky that I seem to chase off any guys with my own issues before I even have a chance to cross this bridge.

I think taking a step back is the right decision. You are a package deal and if she can't adjust to that then ultimately she won't be good for you. Don't know the ages of your children, but mine are young so there really isn't the option of waiting til they are grown to date. I mean it is, but I would be so unhappy

A couple of answers to some questions.

One, she isn't necessarily familiar with MB's, but it has been easy to live by most of the principles so far. Undivided attention has been our strong point, RC is coming around, affection has never been a problems. We are both VERY open and honest with each other. I don't think POJA will be a problem, but we're close enough to being in the infatuation stage that our givers are still strong and it hasn't been a challenge.

However, she is a trained counselor (as being clergy) and is very well read in regard to relationships and such. She had me read some passages from "Soul Mates" by Thomas Moore, and it's pretty much on the other end of the scale from MB's. It's good to read other viewpoints and approaches, after reading what she pointed me to MB's seemed way too cookie-cutter or recipe like. So to answer the questions, I think she would be open to reading the books with me and taking what we can from them, but I would never try to force it to her as the only way.

AMMC read the situation wrong, or I'm sure I didn't write it up correctly, but I don't think my 10 year old was necessarily acting out at her. She has spent dinner and the evening half dozen or more times at my house with the boys and it went pretty well. It was more a case of her realizing that she would be back involved with everything that goes with kids, behavior issues, teen years, etc. I wouldn't blame anyone from being scared or not sure they want to get into that again, especially when there's complications of divorce in the background.

We can still see each other as much as we want when I don't have the boys, and pick our spots when I do. We're just going to take it much slower as far as her being fully involved with them.

Schtoop, this is one of the biggest pitfalls when dating with small kids, so don't feel bad about falling into it. Many of us have been there before you .

I read your post a few times, and I still am not sure what to say. To some extent, it's easy to "blame" your son for being a pain that evening. Only you know if this was him acting out of character, or if it was him just being himself. Depending on the answer, you'll know if this is one of those things that can be expected in the future, or was an unusual event.

I am more interested in her reaction. I think it should be telling you (and her) something, though I am not completely sure what . One way to view it is that she "forgot" what it's like to have kids, and got smacked with a dose of reality that she did not expect. Frankly, that's a bit surprising to me, since she is a mom, even though her kids are grown. So I would think that somewhere deep down inside she'd remember that small kids take work (and act out on occasion).

So I dunno. She said she didn't want to date someone with small kids, then she met you and got smitten, and presumably decided to ignore the kid issue - until it came into her daily life, which was bound to happen sooner or later. And she freaked. That's my read on it.

I guess it's OK to play "take it slow" for a bit, although I think the writing is on the wall. This is one of the biggest deal-breakers out there, and I am not really sure what there is to POJA. Your kids are not pets, and you will not do anything to compromise your bond with them. So if you and your kids (as a package) are a problem for her, then it is what it is. It does not speak badly of you, it does not speak badly of her - it's just a mismatch in expectations. Better to acknowledge it than to try to fit a round peg into a square hole.

See how you both feel in a few days, I guess. I'm sorry about this buddy.

AGG

We posted at the same time...


This is exactly how I read her reaction too... Not surprising, since she said earlier that she did not want to date someone with small kids.

AGG

AGG,

Your take is exactly on the money.

That's why she was so upset the other night, she had tried to convince herself that she could do the kid thing and got smacked in the face with reality.

You're also right about it possibly being a deal breaker, if we are both bent on having a "life partner" or nothing.

I think we are back to seeing if being with each other mostly when I don't have the kids will be satisfying for a while. Back to where we started, I wasn't looking to jump into another life-long relationship and she wasn't either. Think we're going back to just enjoying each other's company whenever we can be together. Nothing wrong with that for the time being, it doesn't have to be forever or bust right now.

How long can that kind of relationship sustain us? Will we grow together and her and the kids mesh by going slower? I guess we'll ride it out and find out.

I agree, there is no harm in trying to step back to something other than "life partner" dating. I do think that it is very hard to be successful at derating a relationship to a lower level than before, as I think there may be lots of confusion, and in fact may increase your sense of divided loyalties between your kids and her.

But it's worth a shot. You can deal with the issues as they come up.

AGG

How old is your son? He should always show respect to her and any other friends you have...I would have dealt with him on this, that is totally unacceptable. If I were her I would pull back too, but not because you have children, but because of how you deal with them...or don't. He is used to getting his own way? That is not good! He needs boundaries and discipline.

Count me in. I thought the same thing.

I guess your attraction to each other was pretty strong to continue to see each other, if you or she knew that she didn't want to raise kids again. What a bummer.

Hey Sh2p!
Good to see you're successfully navigating the single life and it's inherent dangers! You have good advice from the folks here, I won't even presume to add to it. I'm just glad to see you posting and to know that you are dealing with problems MUCH more reasonable than a cheating spouse, and that you've moved on.
I�ll update my thread pretty soon, but in case you�re worried about me, I�m still living my life in parallel with yours, lol. I think you may have pulled ahead of me a little. I�ve been dating a woman for over a month and since we knew of each other before, things have progressed pretty quickly. She has yet to meet my kids so reading your situation has been really helpful to me.
Well, I�ll see you over on Another AD Story~ I have the kids Wednesday through Tuesday this week so I�m not sure when I�ll get to it; things are going fine though. Real fine.
Opt

Wow,you guys know how to see right through to the heart of the matter.

Yes, Kay, this is a big part of what happened the other night. My oldest (10) has always been self-centered and demanding, probably because he has always been put first his entire life (including above our marriage, see how that worked out). I have had some really good conversations with my girlfriend on his behavior, how it got that way, and some great ideas on how to work on correcting it.

He was disrespectful to her and to me, and I tried to let it go so it wouldn�t upset the evening. Bad way to handle it, I know.

With going through the divorce, I think both parents have overcompensated with the kids in an effort to keeps the least upsetting as possible, I know I am guilty of this.
I won�t go into details, and I�m not doing it as a reaction to the other night, but I am implementing some new rules and new ways of doing things at my house. So far he is responding well, I just need to keep following through.

Opt, thanks for checking in. Will catch up to you on your thread.

Schtoop, I've been thinking about your situation some more. And I just want to remind you that just like you should not make any permanent decisions in the Infatuation Phase, you do not necessarily need to give up as soon as you find yourself in Disillusionment Phase either...

Your GF has gotten a good dose of Disillusionment, but that is par for the course... No harm in trying to slowly enter into the Negotiation Phase, as I described a couple of pages back.

AGG

Well at least you're dealing with it now, and it's also a good lesson to her to not date someone with kids if she doesn't want kids...they come with.

No real harm done except the pain of going your own ways after starting to fall for each other...and that's hard. Good luck to you!

I think we all experience some delusion after the infactuation stage wears off. And this is where the rubber meets the road, because now you are in the negotiation stage of the relationship, since no one is going to be completely equal matches.

If you can negotiate in a loving and mature way, that will be what makes or breaks a relationship. You also have to be aware that some things may not be negotiable, and you'd have to ask yourself if you can "live with that".

i prefer remaining in the infatuation stage, its fun, there is alot of adrenaline, i have nice dreams at night. . .

can I ward off the Disillusionment Phase, because that blew me out of the water last time?

I had my first good dating experience last saturday night, first time i did everything right with a new woman. Does take practice, especially if its been 10 years since dating new people. . .

so I get another date, most likely a bunch more, but i am going slow with the expectations. . . even though she looks and feels like she is my idealize match, or someone very, very similar to her.

its all in accepting the randomness of meeting people, and how to react and interact, while looking for the a great relationship. ..

wiftty

Wow, wiftty, talk about serendipitous!

I just responded to a remark you made on my thread very much along these same lines.

Going slow, learning about each other, taking a mental inventory checklist against Dr. Harley's ENQ.

Because we want to be wiser, more experienced, and better all-around.

Why be stupid now?

Glad you had a good time on your date. Sounds like you have the right mindset in your lastest post.

Enjoy.