OK, let's have a show of hands out there! How many of you betrayers, when your affair was first exposed, told your spouse that it was "just an emotional affair" when really it was a lot more than that and did involve sex? How many of you kept insisting this until your spouse actually believed it, and then never told spouse the real truth? (No judgments here -- I really am just curious and trying to prove a point.)<P>(This Q was inspired by SHA's terrific "emotional vrs. physical affairs" thread.) Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

I am not the betrayer, but my H did that to me on the 1st affair. <BR>We were all friends, I noticed she started drifting and not speaking to me. When I confronted the issue I realized there was an emotional bond between them. For 3 years he said they are just friends, she went througha divorce, lost her job, she listens to him etc, etc... I checked up on him, all the time. Had my best saying .. There is no way he's not sleeping with her!<BR>I totally believed every word he said. Let them remain "email friends or occasional lunches" WHich I found receipts from. Finally I noticed he lost interest in her and made a new friend at his work. When I saw what was happening I blew .... When I blew his best friend saw me hurt and I asked him if h was sleeping around and he couldn't lie, because at this point even he saw the destruction my H was causing. So .. after 3 years of trying to be nice, letting them remain friends, I was devestated to learn the truth. That is harder for me to deal with than the fact that he slept with her .. he lied, over and over. I asked him repeatedly if he was sleeping with her, did he love her, does he want to seperate? No it was always me being posessive or emotional unstable, he told me that I was happier with me I wouldn't be trying to make up faults in him!!!! <BR>Anyway .. I truly believe I caught this new one in time and we are on our way now.<BR>Just some thoughts!<BR>M

Okay, here goes...<P>I was the one who exposed the affair to my spouse. It went like this...<P>My husband and I had just moved to another state a couple days after the physical affair started.<P>My husband knew I was depressed, but thought it was because of the move.<P>I origianlly told my husband that I was so depressed because I missed the OM (my h knew I was friends with him as we had often done things together and I worked with him)...that was my way of breaking it to him. My h did ask if anything physical happened and I denied...mainly because we were on way to catch a plane to visit his parents and it wasn't a good time. My h asked if I loved him and I denied that too. My h tried to believe me and said..."you're probably right, that's probably why you're so depressed."<P>Then, less than a week later I told him that the affair was, in fact, physical.

Wex,<P>I definitely did do that in my first affair 11 years ago. I told my wife it was just emotional, and she didn't know until just recently that there was sex involved.<P>My last affair <B>was</B> emotional only. To back me up, there was email to me from the OW (that my wife later discovered) where she sorta fantasized what the first time between us would be like. Otherwise she might not have believed me this time around.<P>--andy<p>[This message has been edited by airheart (edited October 27, 1999).]

I was betrayed, but my wife denied everything even though I just knew something was going on. It all started by phone calls to her cell phone.( it was one of her highschool boyfriends and one of my former friends ).I would check the phone ID. and call the numbers she called. we even went out with OM and his W. Finall after many months her best friend called and told me about her affair. It hurt but probably not as bad as if I would have to find out for my self.<P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<BR>

I confessed on a Friday morning. My H had gotten mad at me the night before because I couldn't orgasm, or it was taking me too long, whatever. I just rolled over and went to sleep, crushed. The next morning, he looked at me with the deepest, most soulful look in his eyes and said "I'm so sorry about last nigh. If you ever aren't happy with me, please tell me." I had to tell him then. My guilt had now started affecting our sex life and I saw no end in sight. I thought my only hope would be to tell him. I hadn't laid out any elaborate plans (which I regret) about how I would tell him. I just started talking. At first I said we just kissed. Less than a day later, I sat him down and told him that I had slept with him. He asked me how many times and I said twice. He said "on the same day?" I said yes, cause it was twice on the same day. So I wasn't officially lying. But I didn't tell him until about a week later that it was twice on one day, and once on another day. It took me about a week to come clean with *all* the gory details. I really thought he loved me enough to work this out with me. Boy, was I ever wrong. Now I regret telling him...

brownphd - But when you confronted W with what you knew, did she try and tell it was "just an emotional affair" or did she confess the whole truth?<P>TheStudent - I admire your honesty more than I can say. That's some story and I think it's your H's loss that he wasn't able to deal with the facts in a more loving, caring and understanding way. But even you denied having sex with the OM initially, to break your affair as gently as possible to your H, it sounds like. <P>andy - Your story of your 1st affair is more like the way I suspect the majority of betrayers handle this situation. This is not a put-down in any way. As with TS, I think I can understand why you would want to deal with it this way. And, after all, you did finally tell your W about the physical part.<P>Holly - I think that I'm definitely seeing a pattern emerge here. In your case, it sounds like you held back the whole truth just so the knowledge of your affair would be easier for your H to take.<P>Mater - Your story also is about a betrayer who said his affair was just emotional -- or that it really wasn't an affair at all, just a friendship -- when it was much, much more.<P>I can see so far that what varies is how hard the betrayer keeps trying to insist that the affair is just emotional (or even just a friendship) in the face of evidence to the contrary. So far, it does look like betrayers who voluntarily confessed out of guilt (Holly, TheStudent) were more inclined to confess everything in a fairly short time. But even they didn't want to admit the physical part at first. Others, like Mater's H, who didnt't own up voluntarily to their affairs, stonewalled about it just being emotional or a friendship. That all makes sense, I think. Are there more stories like this out there? I think we can all really learn a lot by discussing this issue! Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex <P>

TheStudent,<P>Just to make sure I have it right: You cheated on your husband, then you lied to him, then, you told him something that was not true, then you told him the truth. Now you wish you had continued to lie because he didn't handle it very well. Is that right?<BR>

Joining in late, but I confessed the entire thing in full. My husband never "found out," I practically had to give it all to him on a platter. Then, he thought I was lying! Or just looking for attention. I actually had to give HIM "proof," can you believe that. But that's the way he is. If I told him the sky were blue, he'd insist it was purple just as to disagree with me. And even after I gave him his proof, it still took a few days for things to really sink in. <P>Nonpulsed,<P>I understand what TheStudent is saying, and it's really pretty easy to sit back and question it when you haven't been there. If my husband had thrown me out on the street after I confessed, I'd probably wish I hadn't told too. But TheStudent, I think it's all for the best. If you hadn't told and you'd still be with your husband, he'd probably still be the same way he always was, and that had to change one way or the other. Things happen for the best, they do.

Ah, Wex, how do I answer this one? I'm in such a tangled web.... My H was the betrayer, and he told me "she was some one to hang out with". He denied sex. I don't know if they did or didn't and I don't think he is really with her now. As for me, am I a betrayer?? My H has been gone for 10 months. But the "relationship" I have had with a married man was of course first a physical attraction. But we had alot of time together, talking, joking, etc. And I guess I fell for him emotionally too. As for the OM, he told me that one night after leaving me, his wife was still up in the wee hours, and she asked him if he was having an affair. The reason she asked was because she couldn't understand why he seemed so happy, when he had so much stress. They had recently lost alot due to flooding, his job is VERY stressful, etc. His answer to her, was that she had nothing to worry about, and that he is older now and just knows how to handle things. Liar, Liar, pants on fire.<BR><BR>All I get out of this life is that I can trust no one. Including my own judgement.

ATW - Your relationship with your MM is certainly an affair for him and does make you the OW for his W. (Not a criticism or a judgment, just a fact.) But I wouldn't consider you to be betraying YOUR H at this point, if you've been separated that long. I started dating a single woman I really had just been friends with before almost as soon as my 1st W and I separated. And yes, my relationship with this single woman did end up with us having sex. But I still don't consider that it was really an affair on my part, as 1st W and I regarded our formal separation as a necessary step on the road to divorce and never talked about reconciling.<P>PodPer - Yes, I remember reading some of your story on other threads and finding it highly intriguing that your H reacted (I seemed to recall from one of your posts) almost with indifference. Hard to believe for those of us who spouse's affairs have had the effect of making us incredibly paranoid. Thanks also for answering nonplused. At this point, I really am trying hard just to understand what goes on in betrayers' minds so I can understand how and why affairs happen (my W's in particular) and end. I don't want to start judging people. Most of the betrayers who post here are already carrying around plenty of guilt for what they did. They don't need to have more laid on by us.

Pod,<P>I guess what I was trying to say is that the understanding seems to be pretty one sided. The betrayed has a just as if not more difficult time dealing with an affair than the betrayer does. Sometimes the betrayer feels no remorse or anything for years. So I think it's a little cruel to sit back and say I think it's my husband's fault because he got mad at me. What would anybody expect??? You can't just run over people like that without expecting a reaction.<P>I believe an affair IS the end of a marriage, and should be treated as such. After that you can decide whether to build a new marriage or not. But both people are free to make that choice. If the betrayed decides "no", well, that really is just a consequence the betrayer should've added to their analysis before hand. It is deceitful and unfair to disallow the betrayed that choice because we don't want to face the consequences of our own actions.<P>I think TheStudent's husband did the right thing anyway. Maybe once they have each had some time to deal with their own issues, they will be better positioned to reconcile. But I know what it's like to be in a relationship when you are filled with hostility towards your partner because of an affair. It doesn't work. You can't see straight. You can't treat them right. You can't show them proper respect as a fellow human being because all you can think is "lier, lier, lier". You think you constantly need to protect yourself from the unseen threats of this person's secret actions. You think "so you're back. How long will it last this time?" This is how I felt anyway. It's a terrible way to live. I don't think the betrayed is in any position to reconcile until all of that is out of their system. It's not fair to anybody to try.<BR>

You know my answer....<P>Deny deny deny, and then accuse.... A good offense is a good defense....<P>

nonplused,<BR>although I understand your position, I'm pretty sure you weren't on this forum when I was beating myself to death trying to save my marriage. Wexwill was. My ex was no saint. He went on a vacation with another woman less than a month after I confessed, called me a slut, a mutilation, told me he didn't care if I killed myself. Compared me to a murderer. This went on for over a year. I stayed because of my guilt and yes, my f**king commitment. He also told every friend, relative and coworker about the most intimate details of my life. I also found about a few other things during the course of this, like he had forced me to destroy pictures of my first husband while he kept pictures of his long-time girlfriend in a file at work. He was a mean, vindictive, cruel person. He didn't deserve my honesty. I should have dumped him instead of compromising my values. Problem is, I married for life, for better or worse. I coped in the only way I knew how at the time. Maybe the wrong way, but the only way I knew how at the time. <P>You'd like to think that an affair is the end of a marriage, and the betrayed somehow has some golden gift of choice. That somehow the betrayer should have figured that into their "equation". Problem is, there is often no "equation". And I could also say quite easily that the "betrayed" should have considered that the consequences of their behavior in a marriage was their partner having an affair. That is if you're the kind that likes thinking that only the other person has consequences to deal with, and it sounds like you are. My H spent 8 years with me. The consequences of his behavior (i.e. divorce) is that he gets to start from scratch with someone else, with no guarantees there either. Not only that, he gets to wait a little longer, till maybe the next relationship or even longer than that, to deal with the problems he created too. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited October 28, 1999).]

nonplused - Now you're getting positively preachy, a temptation I've often succumbed to myself!<P>TNT - See my response to your "Catch im" thread.<P>--Wex

Wexwill<P>Sorry. I do that now and again.<P>TheStudent,<P>I understand where you are coming from. It sounds like your husband is a real jerk. What I am trying to say is if he has issues to deal with, which obviously he does, maybe the best way to do that isn't by calling you names. Since that's all he can bring himself to do, it really is better for both of you (especially you) if he just deals with it on his own. Even if he is doing it as revenge or something dumb like that, this way he has to deal with his own issues. You aren't there for him to blame them on anymore. Of course, the reverse is also true.<BR>

Woah! Wait! No editing replies while I'm replying! Ack, can't keep up. Got to go now.

nonpulsed,<P>I don't remember saying, "I will love honor and cherish until he cheats on me ....." I also don't remember my husband saying that. What we said was, "til death." So I have to disagree with you. An affair is not the end of the marriage, no moreso than cursing at your spouse, refusing to support your spouse or even hitting your spouse. There are several things included in wedding vows, and respect is one of them. So, I completely disagree with you.<P>TheStudent's husband should have given the marriage another chance. IMO, in not doing so, he committed the ultimate breach of the marriage covenant because now there is no marriage at all.

Podperson,<P>you said:<BR>"TheStudent's husband should have given the marriage another chance. IMO, in not doing so, he committed<BR> the ultimate breach of the marriage covenant because now there is no marriage at all."<P>My thoughts exactly. <P>

wex you should find this interesting--i betrayed w and ow is pregnant and when i "came clean" told w it was only sexual not emotional...until ow sent w 3 months later package with all the details...w is more crushed now than when i first told her...upon reading details she filed for divorce and we are now deciding what to do...i hope for reconciliation...she is very confused amongst other things...i guess all situations are different...trying hard<BR>