Hi,

This is my first time on the site, and I've spent quite a bit of time getting to read over forums, discussion and the Steps to Recover from Fidelity; but I can't help to find someone that hasn't been married and running into pre-marital problems yet. I have to be honest, my fiance (girlfriend now) has her MFT but is working with school districts and low-income housing, so I was brought to this site from her supervisor that suggests we find counseling and begin with the His Needs, Her Needs classes.

Anyways, I have been in the most amazing relationship of my entire life with this girl and everything has been 'picture perfect'-- from the time together, to the engagement at her grandfather's 80th birthday, to the wedding planning, and even the way our families have taken us both in as their own. I know through the classes I will learn what drove me to cheat, but out of nowhere (it seems to me) last week a girl at my work gave me a form of sexual contact, just below having sexual entercourse, that once I got my head grasped around what happened and what as going on, I pulled myself together, went to the bathroom and vommitted. I had to tell my fiance everything because our wedding was set for this October and I want her to know that this isn't who I am. This isn't what I want from my life, and that she is the only thing I want for all eternity.

I guess I posted today because our 2 year relationship has been perfect, and I mean that, up until last week. Now, she is willing to give me a chance it seems, though cancelling the wedding, and I'm up for anything to get through this. I just am scared for us that how high our relationship was, and how important she was to me, is something she won't ever able to have from me because of my infedility. Is there any hope for us now that I have messed up her entire world, and mine (but not as important), and is there any chance she can love me again the way she did if I'm willing to take every action needed to make her happy again? It's killing me that I know she was always the one, and still is the one, that I want for the rest of my life, but she's on the sidelines having to forgive me, while I don't know how to make it better. I'm ashamed of myself and I know it's nothing I will ever be able to put her through again. I discovered my lack of boundaries, my inefficiencies, and now I spend every second trying to tell her how much I love her, miss her, and want her to return to our apartment. Can wedding bells still ring, but not just that, is it possible for her to see me for what I really want to be for her, to make our vows as soul mates despite this cloud that I created?

There is much more to this story than she just gave you sex, isn't there? There is a relationship that has been going on for some time. Can you describe it? Is this girl married? How did you come to be involved with her?

We did not have sex, but yes as I talk with my fiance I realized how my boundaries created this inviting relationship. It starts with me being in the restaurant industry where I met my fiance, and she knew that I flirt a lot, both with girls and stroke egos to guys because it was my way of unprofessionaly "getting along." So what I believe had happened, was looks of flirtation became small casual dialog of flirtation. Yet a few times, this girl would then touch in a flirting way, and then two times she walked by a tight area and rubbed her body along me. So this is the extent of the relationship, no phone calls, no parties, no meet-up times, just what I thought were flirting experiences that I just let the line go further and further. So then last week, I was in the office on the phone, and she came in, rubbed me then pulled it out. There's about two more minutes to this relationship and that's how I got to where I am now.

She is not married, she is not engaged, but has had a boyfriend she has been off and on with for who knows how long. We don't talk about our lives, or talk in general besides work... it was always just flirting and I didn't realize how much the flirting was wrong.

You've shown that if a girl pays you some sexual attention, you'll take it. Your girlfriend should be thankful to know this now, before she married you and had children with you, and mark you down as an "F" on the marital suitability quiz.

Do a search for "Extraordinary Precautions" on this site, and ingrain them into your psyche. I can save you the trouble of figuring out why you cheated: you have poor boundaries. You need to tighten those up, and apply them to the next relationship you have.

You said in your intial post that you had sex:

Maybe there's your problem...

You have much work to do, sir, and be very thankful your GF may even be willing to consider hearing from you after this. There was a situation here just a week or so ago where it was the girl who had cheated on her fiance. It was said that the engagement is the test - a trial run, if you will - and the cheating is an automatic FAIL.

You have much work to do, sir, to come back from that fail. Keep reading.

This is exactly what I have realized about the boundaries myself. I don't disagree with you. I do believe that in some of the material I have been reading that if I can cut myself from that environment, and understand how to tighten my boundaries, then my psyche will develop. You imply the next relationship...does that mean you think I should not be forgiven and I cannot give her the world. That I can't learn from this mistake and apply my new tight boundaries to my relationship with her?

Wait, wait, wait... Bill, is that you?

Ladies and gentlemen, former President Bill Clinton!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Cheating is cheating, so whether it was sex or not... I did cheat. She performed a sexual contact on me, but there was no sex itself. So yes, I cheated, and if every form of sexual contact is sex, then yes we had sex.

kayleeb,

I believe you are sincere about wanting to fix the issues in your relationship, and that you do love your fiance and want to repair things and see the relationship recover from this affair.

First thing: You had an affair, and what you need to fully and completely understand that whether or not you had "sex" does not diminish the betrayal. Plenty of affairs happen between people which do not involve sexual intercourse, but they are affairs none the less, and they are very destructive. Your affair was IN FACT sexual - consider for a moment whether or not you would call it "sexual" if your fiance gave or received that very same sexual experience with another man. YOU would call it sex, and there is no getting around it.

The lack of "intercourse" does not make this "not sex".

Second thing: There are many "reasons" for having affairs. You need to look at why you would be willing to do "whatever" and "whoever" came along, and do NOTHING to stop yourself. This is essentially what you did here - went along for a nice ride, stopped yourself, and then decided you had to pay consequences for it. Then you realized that your FIANCE would also pay consequences.

Don't you think you did these things in reverse? Shouldn't you have considered that your fiance would pay consequences, then you would pay consequences....and then STOP before anything went further? Because realistically, your mind should always be focused on how the OTHER person in your primary relationship feels - and in this case your mind was not even close to that.

Third thing: You ask "if" this can be saved. Certainly. My question would be, "Why 'should' it be saved?" I would surmise that this is the very question your fiance has rolling around in her head every day. "Why should I continue with this relationship?"

Fourth thing: You do need to read His Needs/Her Needs, then Surviving an Affair. Then, because YOU need to wrap your head around decision-making and understanding your own behavior, I personally recommend a third book, "Leadership and Self-Deception" by The Arbinger Institute. The third one meshes quite well with the Marriage Builders book, and will set you to looking very closely at exactly when and how you made the decision you made. It also will help you figure out what you need to do to change yourself.


Good luck.


Oh, and if I were your fiance, I would definitely wait about two years before I considered setting a new wedding date if I were to think about marrying you. She needs time to SEE your changes, and you definitely need time to make those changes.

Schoolbus

This was a rewarding post to read schoolbus. Thank you. I am sincere and I believe that apart of me and the lack of boundaries I had to not consider my fiance and her feelings (as you said to put her first), was that when the opportunity exposed itself, I hit one of those "everyone wants one last one before they get married, and I never want to cheat on my wife". I learned once that boundary was crossed that I never realized that my fiance and wife were of the same person already and this is what helped me to find the toilet, puke my guts out, and confront her myself immediately. I realize that a lack of boundaries continued to grow to bigger boundaries that originally began with a 'it's a flirt and everything is ok because that's all it is'... so I see that I never considered how this would affect her first and then me.

The one thing that I am not seeing from this thread yet, is the acknowledgement of this affair is a fact and there is a lot of chance for this relationship to grow. I understand completely that there is a lot of time and energy that will need to be placed on my own issues, but I am here to take counseling, invest time, and 'fix' myself. I just haven't really seen anyone take a side yet that encourages me to believe that I she and I both can work together and re-establish our relationship... that plenty of people have violated their trust or returned to grow from their affairs. So, that is why I'm here. I'm looking for some hope, otherwise it is sounding like a consesus that not just am I messed up, but I'm a loser to think we can work us out despite acknowledging that I have to fix myself first. Does that make sense? I basically feel like the only option now is to fix me and let her go... where I thought this thread about surviving affairs would have some support on how to fix me and repair the relationship as well.

That is sex. Allowing a woman to grab you is SEX. Unless you screamed and ran from the room and called the police, it was SEX. And unless you are Bill Clinton.

kayleeb,

Read my post again. I told you that I believe you are sincere, and I also said that YES the relationship can be repaired.

My thoughts regarding "should" it be repaired was to help you understand exactly what your FIANCE is thinking.

I do not go around saying anything nice and rosy just so someone feels better. That is counter-productive when it is not true.

Fact is, you came here to understand things, what went wrong, and "how" to fix it.

You cannot fix anything unless you are very clear on what is wrong. Understanding your fiance's feelings and reactions to your affair is almost the essence of the entire thing. So when I speak of "should" you repair it, that is meant to get you to look at it. When I speak of the fact that you need to change, again, it is to help you widen your scope - to really explore what your fiance now sees and believes of you, and how you need to also see those things clearly as well.

She will need, as Obama put it, "Change she can believe in."

If you can do that, you have a better chance to recover the relationship.

It is one thing to be remorseful, and you do show that. It is another to grasp the depth of your actions, to understand yourself, and to work toward those repairs

because

it is very hard to see your own self clearly.


Something that is learned over time, and is quite a skill to have.

You want hope - there is hope.

Oddly enough, YOU CONTROL THE ENTIRE THING.


Ask me how.


SB

Hope you are getting STD testing...

Kayleeb, the reason we are not treating it the same as a marriage is because it is not a marriage. You are not married. You are dating. Dating is a job interview for marriage and in most cases, when one flunks the interview, they don't get the job. If I were your GF's parents, I would strongly advise her to cut her losses and move on. To find a better candidate. That is because someone who cheats before marriage is very likely to do it after marriage.

And she may or may not decide to do that. If she does decide to stay with you, she really needs to put off your wedding date and give you a chance to demonstrate that you have stopped flirting and can demonstrate more maturity at work. The fact that you behave this way, especially at work, should be very, very alarming to her. If you were married to her now, you would have to leave that job and cut off all contact with the OW in order to recover. [and she should insist you leave if she does stay with you] So you see, your behavior goes beyond a risk to your relationship but it constitutes a risk to your career and source of income.

What would she do if you were married and she was a SAHM and you behaved so unprofessionally and recklessly AT WORK? You would have to leave the job to save the marriage and how would you support your family? Workplace cheaters are a DISASTER in a marriage. They are loose cannons that cause massive destruction in their path.

So the reason you don't see us treating this the same as a marriage is because you are not married. And many would agree that your GF would be better off finding a more suitable marriage partner.

Like I said, why "should" she remain with you?

You need to do something that gets that question answered.


Here's the "how":


YOU control everything YOU do.

Recognize that you FAILED to control yourself. (As Mel says, at WORK no less. Sheesh. )

Look at the Extraordinary Precautions information on this website.

PUT THE EP'S INTO PLACE. TODAY, AND DO NOT DELAY ANOTHER MOMENT.


Then, go and confess your affair to her parents, your parents, and anyone else you can think of. BECAUSE - you need others to help support you in not repeating this stupid behavior. This will only happen if everyone else knows you have this tendency, and they can help you. Go humbly, ask for HELP, and apologize for being so terribly irresponsible.

YOU make a plan for recovery. Include a plan for your DEPARTURE from your job, because you are obviously in an environment that is incompatible with your planned marital relationship. This should happen REGARDLESS of any perceived impact on your finances and life and plans and whatever. GET ANOTHER JOB asap.

(Besides, if you think about it, whether or not you repair your marriage, you have defiled your own sandbox at work. Leave now.)

Include also a letter to the OW, stating that your behavior was wrong, that you are committed to restoring your primary relationship with your fiance, and that you and she are to never have contact again. For life.



I know exposing this affair to your family and friends will not be easy. However, it is probably the strongest step you will ever take in your life toward making you a man - and a better man at that.

Take the chance that your humility and shame can offer you more growth than you have ever considered.


Then, get your fiance and yourself an appointment with the Harleys. Because THAT will help you more than anything else. You need a pro involved, and you need to show your fiance that you MEAN BUSINESS.


So yeah, YOU control this situation. TAKE CHARGE OF THE HEAVY LIFTING. Because the last thing you want is for your fiance to see you "feel guilty" and


DO NOTHING.





SB

I can't disagree with what you are saying by any means. I can only tell you that I am willing to do everything that treated like this relationship was a marriage. What wasn't a marriage about it--the piece of paper? We've been living together, we've made purchases together, invested together, grown together, and worked on having a family and home. I don't think we are at all that I didn't get the job as you say, I had the job. I wish I could comment on the GF's parents, but I'll leave at it this: I called her father myself after telling my fiance. I told him the entire truth and apologized. I owed it to him, to her, to myself. We have been in a near-marriage like relationship for over a year, the only difference is that we have not signed a piece of paper and had a ceromony in vegas or elsewhere that says we're married. I committed to her and I failed. We aren't "dating."

So I guess her parents understand that people test themselves and get second chances. That someone that runs from what happened, immediately is honest, shows integrity and mans up to how far he was letting his boundaries go, is something they can still respect and encourage for us to work out. Of course her parents what the best for her, but that is still me. We weren't simply dating. Many people mess up, but the majority keep secrets, avoid it or run from their problems. I am the problem, and I accept that. But I am honest and true to that, so that's got to count for something when it comes time to rebuilding trust between her and I. That whether you're married or not does not entitle anyone more or less to revive their relationship and build together. Maybe that's a problem in it's own...that people are seeing this as our relationship was less special because we weren't married yet...we still loved the same.

Thank you schoolbus. Again, this is what I came here for. This is why I posted, because I want to do EVERYTHING! Everything it takes and more. In response I will say a few things: I called her father the day after I broke it to her, and I told him the whole truth. While I haven't had a bite to eat in days, he texts me when I'm down and says to breathe, give her space, and that he believes in us---now he could be in her ear saying something completely different, but I agree that he is a support system. I called my bestman and my father. She has also informed her mother. She stayed with her friend for a few days, but last night she let me come over and lay with her for the night. She cried, we talked, but when we went to bed...she slept. Something she hasn't done since I broke it to her. She also woke up for the first time not sick to her stomach, but I know none of this means it is over or she forgave me. It is just signs that she may be willing to make this work.

I will jump in to the Eps as you suggest.

I have contacted the OW and let her know that I had come clean and I need to do right be me and my life. There is no relationship there or contact in general, so this didn't involve any fighting, arguing, or harsh words. Just truth and closure...but not enough- you'll see in the next paragraph.

I then agree that I have to find a new job, leave the one I am at in best terms as possible, but more importantly I can't continue to show up to work at the same place this girl does...it isn't right despite if we never talk again- we still see eachother (that would officially create closure). But living in California and being in the restaurant business, I don't know where to go. I pulled out my resume today, and will do my best to find a job, but it's an issue of it's own with where to go in respect to I should stay out of the restaurant business all together since it is still the same environment that I am in now...

Everything I am doing, I believe is to rebuild. I think you are the first person that is acknowelding that rebuilding and restructuring this relationship is possible, and I thank you for that because that is what I want most. I am not concerned what job I find, but since my job does play a role in this is there anything else I can do until a new job is found?

When you say get an appointment with the Harleys... what do you mean? I found this site by way of trying to find the courses her and I can attend in regards to the his needs, her needs- per her suggestion. Harley Jr. does write the book, and I saw the different online and home options... but I want to contact the Harleys- I want to attend actual classes with her. I just don't know how to put that in motion- where to go.

Its sad you consider marriage a piece of paper or on par with what people do in Vegas. Obviously, you have much maturing to do. I would highly suggest your gf leave you because everything screams "low" commitment with you.

I'm saying quite the opposite. That sometimes people mistake that piece of paper or what people do in vegas with something more than what love is. What our relationship is. Marriage means everything to me...because it will be the two of us accepting every vow we bring, BUT when people talk like because we aren't married we aren't entilted to the same structures or chances to rebuild...tells me that they don't value the love and connectedness, because that is the exact reason I want to marry her. The exact reason why I value marriage. It is the exact reason I came to her so that she can see every weakness inside me and help me to become our fullest potential when we are ABLE to take eachother for who we are and what we've been. I mean no disrespect to marriage at all- it's all I want with her... but my verbage is directed at people who think we don't have enough invested in eachother now ONLY because we're not married. That's rediculous.