A co-worker and I were talking in the company kitchen today about -- you guessed it -- the subject of infidelity. I play my W's affair very close to the vest and haven't told anyone in person what I know except my W and our couples counselor. (And her personal therapist knows too, because she told him about my suspicions in order to deny them and get him to brand me a psycho.) So I wasn't sharing my experiences or suspicions. But my co-worker was telling me about his experience, not as a betrayer himself, but as the friend of a betrayer who also actually helped this betrayer get away with it! I'll tell you their tactic.<P>Apparently the friend was a serious philanderer who had many more affairs than just one, some at the same time. And what my co-worker's philanderer friend would do is get my co-worker to pretend to Philanderer's W that my co-worker was actually the OW's boyfriend. That way, the philanderer could go anywhere he wanted with OW, as long as my co-worker was along too, including to the philanderer's own home. My co-worker said this tactic is called "bearding." He says he was acting as the philanderer's "beard" by pretending to be the boyfriend of philanderer's OWs. My co-worker said that he felt very exploited and sometimes angry about doing this, but did it anyway because of their close friendship.<P>You could have knocked me over with a feather. I thought I'd become something of an expert on the subject, but this was completely new to me. And oh, man, did THIS start me thinking. Because it can work with the sexes reversed too, I suspect. And my W does have a female friend with whom she's arranged to have us get together on numerous occasions when a male friend of W's friend was there too. And I can tell you, he's one slick operator. And once I caught him when it looked like he was starting to kiss my W's ear (we'd switched partners and were dancing -- he backed away just in time when he saw me turn and look). That was enough to put him on my short list, I can tell you!<P>Anyone else have experience with this kind of thing? R & B,<P>--Wex

No, but sounds like she might have.

Wex,<P>That's not a betrayer tactic, that's a <B>SICKO</B> tactic... <P>--andy

TeTell the "friend" to shave his "beard" off!!

Well, being in the rural South, we know a guy who was best buddies with a guy of another race. They would go off "fishing" or "hunting" or drinking together all the time, but that was the extent of their social relationship. Their wives both thought everything was cool because given the racial climate of 30 years ago, they each thought there was no way <B>her</B> H would be with another woman as long as he was with the other guy. What they didn't know was that their Hs would go fishing or hunting for a little while, and then go off with their respective GFs. They would then meet back up with each other, end up rip-roaring drunk and go home where their wives would have to put them to bed--none the wiser. Only, finally, one of the wives found out about it. She sent the OW packing, and the other wife cleaned her H's slate in the divorce.<P>So, I imagine that it goes on quite a bit. I'd have to wonder why anybody would inconvenience themselves to that extent, though, just to help out a "friend". I mean, doesn't your co-worker have a life of his own?<P>I know that I told my H that I did not want to be in the position of "socializing" with some woman who may be sitting there talking to me while thinking about how she's screwed my H. He assured me that I had not ever been put into that position, but I still think that's just another lie.

Sweetpea - That's a great story. Boy, the tactics betrayers will sometimes stoop to to hide their affairs, huh? So now you've got me wondering whether my W does that too when she goes somewhere (usually for most of the day) with one of her girlfriends. I've always suspected something was going on during these outings. (I think one of her GF's broke their friendship off because of this kind of thing.) I guess the only way to find out is to rent a car, put on a disguise and follow my W in her car. I'm actually working on this.<P>TL and andy - Yeah. It is kind of sad. The guy is divorced and his ex-W lives in another state. He's had heart surgery and lives alone, I think, not involved with anyone at present. We sometimes b1tch about our pesonal problems and practically everything else in the known universe over lunch. I think he's got a lot of insecurities around personal relationships, which is why I think he let himself be used this way. But anyway, we'd never really talked about THIS subject before.<P>Janie - My W seems to be an extremely clever betrayer with no real sense of remorse or guilt, I have to say. For over two years after we met, well into the 1st year of our marriage, I kept telling myself I was just being paranoid in suspecting her of an affair. I mean, I really did try and talk myself out of the idea. And I think this was because she was just being so darned clever about concealing it. (I've read somewhere that the majority of betrayed spouses never even suspect their spouse is cheating. No wonder, when so many betrayers are so clever. Of course, my co-worker's philanderer friend's W DID know - and ended up in a mental institution where she died.) The only real thing I had to go by was my gut feeling. Until one day....<P>--Wex <P>

Wex-<P>I thought I heard everything. It hasn't happened to me, and thank God I read your post so I'm going to be aware of this.<P>Just disgusting!<P>--Kathy

WOW!! THE B*lls on the 3 of them. Good info to tuck away. The OM and friend are REAL REAL losers aren't they? <P> SICK!! Satan at his VERY best!! My prayers. Frank<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Frank - Truly, Satan gets off on this stuff.<P>Kathy, Frank - When I get time (don't have any right now), I think I'll start a thread on betrayers' tactics. (If someone else wants to, go ahead. We're in crunch time here at work, so I may not get a chance to post much for a while.) I guess collecting these tactics is kind of a hobby of mine. If, like my W, your betraying spouse isn't about to confess to their affair, then you're forced to snoop to find out the truth. And in order to snoop effectively, you need to know the kinds of tricks the betrayer might be up to. I got my start by reading the "hints and tips" page of Philanderers Forum (not so I could use them, obviously, but so I'd know what to watch for). And at various times on MBF, both betrayeds and betrayers when telling their stories have revealed a lot of this too. R & B,<P>--Wex<P>

My H did something along those lines. All but one of his friends were lesbians. What harm could he come to with lesbians, I thought. Well, all the times he went out with his friends, he was with one lesbian couple. Apparently they were having relationship trouble and my H spent a lot of time talking with one of the woman. He supported her emotionally and vice versa. Now they are together. Can't trust anything these days

well here is another tactic my H used, he claimed he was talking to a woman on the net as a friend, supposedly she lived in another town and had a 1-800 phone # so it wouldnt cost to call her long distance. Her name was different of course from her real name. <BR>This woman lives in the same town and goes to my church. <P>------------------<BR>joanne<BR>

Nothing like a shot between the eys with reality. Some people are always ready to help out and be a part of the most immoral acts. My mother in law went far and wide to help my W and did everything she could to keep the deception going even after discovery. And one of her best friends that stood at the altar with us was involved deeply as well. It was these two dirtbags that that helped with my self deception. I figured if anything was going on, they would have to be part of it. Since they wouldn't stoop so low, there was nothing going on and I was insane. <BR>Once I figured out they were part of it everything fell into place. Now they will never be a part of my life and W can't understand why. <BR>Most affairs require a helper so if you are suspicious, see who they are hanging with....

Everyone - Sorry I went so long without responding to latest posts. I just didn't have a chance to get online till now.<P>fighter - I wrote a response to you yesterday that somehow got lost in web server snafus. I'll try again. I think my W does use friends and relatives to hide her tracks. She sometimes takes all day excursions with friends that I always suspect are covering for her hooking up with OM. I think she really does go where she says she's going with these friends, but then manages to meet OM and off they go. Nights, she sometimes manages to find "women's events" to go to with friends. Also suspect that she even uses her daughters for this when she goes on trips out of town and they travel with her. I know that one time, she and a daughter were traveling together and supposedly staying in the same motel room. But phone log shows that she called from that room once and from ANOTHER room at the same motel once! I can maybe see getting friends to help you out (think she broke up with one over this issue though) but family!!? Anyway, thanks for the input. I am going to do a thread on betrayers' tactics when I get the time.<P>joanne - So you're saying your H would talk on the phone to the OW and you'd overhear him and he'd tell you it was someone other than the person he was really talking to? I know there've been times when I've overheard my W's end of a phone conversation and suspected she wasn't really talking to the person she said she was talking to, because when she knew I was listening, she started talking a little too loudly, and started saying the phony person's name over and over (like at the end of every sentence) also too loudly!<P>Kate - That's a good one! If you think about it, the possibilities for deception around "sexual preference" are great. Yeah. If you're a betrayer, just tell your spouse that the OP she suspects you of an affair with is a homosexual. (W hasn't tried THAT one me yet, I don't THINK!) The real trouble is, many of us betrayeds tend to believe what someone we love tells us. Maybe that's why we get betrayed.<P>Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex<P>