You okay NW? How are things with the new ring and All?
your thread is so jacked right now i need you to come over here to find out how you're doing

Stretch - Hope you continue to have a great weekend! That is all. LOL.

Hey stretch, doing pretty good--hope the same for you.

Yeah, not sure what happened to my thread, but I'm sure Reynolds is to blame.

We are talking about fish pate, organic cheese and pale ales and stout beer over on your thread for cryin out loud!

I live in Minnesota so I am always willing to blame the Canucks.

Great Walleye fishing in Manitoba by the way.

Well these are deep thoughts y'all are having so (at least) it's educational, I guess. I'm not quite sure what a fish pate is, nor could I say what makes cheese either organic or not.

Oh, and I've never met a Canadian, either. Do they talk funny?

NW - just watch the Rick Moranis movie The Adventures of Bob and Doug McKenzie: Strange Brew. It's a Canadian, cultural classic. Take off, eh!

We're all hoping your "Monday" response shows some rationality by your WW, Stretch!

Good Luck!

Its going to be a great day.

My entire state of mind and response is not dependant upon her. My outlook on our future, my life, my family is not linked entirely to guessing at and waiting for her reaction and decisions.

Either GOOD or BAD.

But there is no UGLY. Ugly is not in my color wheel any longer. Thank you NG.

Good to hear, stretch!

+1,000,000 to NW!

Somewhat difficult and frustrating. It took the MC and I the better part of the hour to break down the fog and tap dancing. But we have NC.

"As long as we are in this relationship and working on our M I will not contact OM nor put my attention on other men."

I felt firm and confident and clear headed. Able to decipher fogbabble finally. She is the one doing all the crying now. I am not happy about that. I want her to recover and control her own life. But I am going to be okay

She told me later she feels so much shame. Has been blaming me. Very scared to face herself more than anyone else.

"As long as we are in this relationship and working on our M I will not contact OM nor put my attention on other men."

Some historian (A.J.P. Taylor?) referred to the years 1918 - 1939 as the the longest truce WITHIN one war in history.

I can't shake the feeling that your WW's commitment to NC "as long as...." has about as much validity and commitment as that felt by the signatories to the Versailles accord after "the big one" - deep down they knew "a bigger one" was coming. You should have the same level of watchfulness.

Sounds productive (did you get the same impression?) and the shame is a good thing. So, do you think is this a "new" new start or too soon to tell?

It does sound conditional, almost like a final grasp for control or something. That's why I was wondering what your impression was during the session.

Uneasy guys. I am uneasy.

Lots of stories about how she feels controlled. But she says, "there is noise in my head and I don't know how to sort it out."

We aren't in recovery. But when she tosses into the conversation, "can I see my friends? What do we Eat? Where do we Live? Why did we Relocate? Who decides things about the Kids? " etc etc. I just stick to, " that's all noise and unrelated. I am just requesting one thing in our marriage: faithfulness"

She says, " I know its not controlling to ask for commitment to vows. I know my stories have filters. I am just explaining the noise in my head."

Got to keep the conversation or marital argument on one topic at a time. Too much junk gets thrown in.

Stretch - Sounds like you're looking at this with your head and not your heart. Good! IMVHO - from your (and the MCs) perspective, this is crisis management of sorts. You need to prioritize and focus on one thing at a time - exactly what you're doing. If you step back and get too broad a view, it can get too overwhelming. Keep the junk out! If needed, you might want to make a list of topics/things that will need to be addressed. Then prioritize the list. The purpose of the list is to make sure you focus on the right thing at the right time - in other words, make sure she doesn't look at the whole thing and throw up her hands.

Early morning in Seattle? Thx for getting up and checking in.

Try to be careful to ensure that she doesn't think that you are dismissing her other thoughts/concerns. Make sense?

But I agree not to let too much crap crowd out what really needs to be talked about.

Did your wife change her email address from the one she emailed OM with?

NW - yup, all her other thoughts and concerns are very valid. I am addressing all of them. I've made a hundred life changes for myself (and for her and the family.)

Her heart closed off -- so maybe its too late.

I believe that is what she is exploring inside herself. As well as coming to understand her depression and her own responsibility for coping with her depression.

But... perhaps she won't fix this and make a commitment to the M. I am so much more at ease with that possibility now. When she feels sad (which is a practically non-stop way of being with depression) then she ruminates about all the bad stuff, closes her heart to the good stuff, and thinks about quitting and running. I can't fight her or logically or convince her or force an opinion. I am learning that. I can just be the best person I can be for myself, for her, for the kids. And pray.

I am noticing her try to manage her own depression. Set some small tasks each day... diet... get out to see and talk with other women... speak kindly around the house to the family... smile and laugh at little happy things (silly TV show, kids art from school, the puppy playing)... no exercise plan yet but hopefully that comes next...

I am strong and stable enough to just be still in my Plan A and watch. Its frustratingly slow. She ought to have killed the fantasy by now and it tears at my heart.

It might be occurring to her that she MIGHT LOSE ME! I am starting to think practically. Should I investigate lawyers? Should I simply ask her to leave the house and go out on her own for awhile -- I can manage my job and the kids (my boss is behind me.) Am I confident enough for the big D? Would I be all right dating? That one used to scare me and make me cry... now I believe I could do it...

But, I believe in "for better or worse." It finally dawns on me that my wife has depression. She is sick indeed. Sure I am remorseful for not really getting it and being there all these years (combined with the thoughtless, neglectful typical bad husband stuff.) But I am working on all that - big time! I am making major changes in myself and happy about me. So I won't blame myself any longer. I am here now. I am a great guy. I can fulfill her fantasy and lead our family through a great, great life. I have learned a lot from my little sister who really understands her depression and really knows how to cope and manage. So I really do commit to finishing our life together. We have a good foundation with our family (our kids and extended family and friends.)

I watch and wait. Don't push. I have a timeline in mind.

Coping with depression is a lot easier when you don't have things to dwell on and feed the depression.

Your W gave herself a big, hulking load of crap to be depressed over.

Now, I'm sure that you have had some bouts of depression yourself, Stretch. I want you to think about what your mind does when you are depressed; you examine, disassemble, turn over, dissect every single thing about a problem or problems in your life.

The physiology of depression can be a chemical imbalance, but the thought process of depression - it's adaptive purpose - is problem solving.

You are right to say her thoughts and concerns are valid, and they need to be addressed.

Allow her to tell you her thoughts and feelings, and only offer input if she asks. Offer her goals or solutions, and then allow her time to process. Continue your Plan A activity.

Has she mentioned getting AD's?