Still

Have you read Surviving An Affair?

Any of Dr H's books?

nESRE

In my earlier post I indicated the OM was coming down to visit. I just learned (not 2 minutes ago) from my credit card bill that my wife paid for the hotel. I am PISSED. Even though the OM is currently gone, it still makes me angry. Especially since my wife used our money for her continued affair.

????

I've read "Surviving an Affair". Also, His needs Her Needs and Speaking the 5 love languages (or something like that).
What did my wife read? "When Good People Have Affairs".

You need to stop being an enabler and contact the OM's wife. And of course you should tell your W. AFTERWARDS. There is absolutely no valid reason to not tell the OMW and there is absolutely no valid reason to not tell your wife.

The OMW should have been contacted a long time ago. Why has that not been done?

You should not be honest with your wife. That is ridiculous. She is having an affair. That is like giving a terrorist your battle plan. Your wife is not SAFE so of course you shouldn't worry about being honest. She has no right to demand that you be honest when she is actively working to destroy your marriage behind your back. The PORH is for RECOVERY, not when you are under direct assault.

MelodyLane: Back again to berate me huh? Do you take the time to read my posts in detail or do you skim it so you can berate your next victim. This happened on one of my other posts.If you took the time, you will know I have already spoken with the OM on numerous occasions. She knows. EVERYONE knows. And I'm not playing any stupid FN games by telling my wife afterwards. I'm going to tell her what I am going to do, then I'm doing it. By the way,your empathy skills suck.

Sigh. I am trying to give as much detail as I can. Don't ASSume you know what the **** is going on unless you have some crystal ball. Thing is, you're basing all of your comments through a computer monitor and a bitter past.

Not be honest with my wife? Worst advice on here EVER.

With all due respect, your enabling skills suck. Agreeing to not speak to the OMW just to appease a wayward wife is not going to get you very far.


I have no idea what an "FN game" is so am not sure what this means.

Exactly. It is stupid to be honest with a wayward because it is like giving your battle plan to a terrorist. Do you think that makes any sense at all? Do you think Dr Harley tells people to use the Policy of Radical Honesty in an affair? Seriously?

SW,

What Mel is trying to tell you is that you are NOT obligated to share your plan of action with your wife. You do not have to tell your wife what you are doing to save your marriage, or to share with her that you are talking with OMW. It is none of the WW's business what you are doing behind the scenes to save the marriage.

For example, if you are spying on your WW, it would do you no good to tell her that you are doing that - would it? You need to be able to have some measure of ability to work your plan in order to ensure its successful outcome. If you are telling her your plan all along, then you are shooting yourself in the foot. This does not constitute LYING, it is merely protecting your plan of action from certain sabotage that your WW will perform in order to thwart your efforts. She is NOT herself right now, and will NOT attempt any cooperation with you. Therefore, you must not engage in activities that involve your "trusting" her.

You cannot trust her. So do not offer her information about your activities.


Next, you are not in any type of Plan B by any stretch of the imagination. Not close, not even in the ballpark.

Plan B means that you have done the following:
1. You have established an intermediary for ALL contact between you and your wayward wife.
2. You USE that intermediary (IM) for all communication, regardless of how your WW feels about it. You do not "ask" your wife's permission regarding the use of the IM, you simply establish this as the fact of the situation, and you USE THE IM.
3. You have written a letter called a "Plan B Letter", which is very short. You have delivered this letter to your wife. This PBL established the initiation of the use of the intermediary for all communication. It also established the fact that you will cease any and all contact with your wife, except through the IM, until she meets the terms and conditions YOU LAY FORTH for the reconciliation of the marriage.
4. In the PBL, you have made clear, in point-by-point terms, what your expectations are for your wife to return to the marriage. These usually include her writing a letter of permanent no-contact with the OM; giving you all passwords and open access to all computer and cellphone, bank accounts, etc.; agreement to attend counseling sessions; agreement to openness on whereabouts at all times; and many others ask for following the MB plans to recover the marriage. You may have other demands as well. Some people ask for post-nuptual agreements, such as financial or child-custody papers before reconciliation attempts are made.
5. You then institute your Plan B, where YOU do not see your WW. You do not go where she is. You do not take her phone calls. If she emails you, you forward them to the IM, and the IM responds on your behalf. You do not respond if she calls you. You do not attend family functions if she is there. You do not go and meet her for coffee.

6. In the event that your wife decides that she will return to the marriage and meet your demands, she will relate this information through the IM. At that point, you can decide if you want to try again.


You need to read about Plan B. There is a lot you are missing, and you have not tried it at all. You are in full drama contact with this wayward wife, and she has NOT responded to what you are doing


because you are NOT in Plan B.


Move to Plan B. Read up on it. Make a Plan. Get an intermediary in place who will be a firm person, and YOU get ready to grow a pair - because you will need both firmly in place to not respond to what this WW is about to try in order to drag you into drama lane.



If you want to save your marriage, you have this one last ace in the hole, and you haven't even played it.


You said you are losing your love for her. Do Plan B before its gone. Plan B - is for YOU> not for your WW. Get it going before it is too late.

SB

Here's the G-rated version. I'm no longer into playing mind games. Yeah, I enabled way too long with some bad advice.But you still think I haven't contacted the OMW. You're convinced the affair is still going on. How do you know for sure? You don't. It's as much a shot in the dark that could wind up back firing. I don't know why you're comments are always bent on the negative and it seems like you're allowing a lot of your old emotions and biases to well up from within. Sounds like you could use as much help as I do.

Hey School Bus. You're right about Plan B. And I am going to start work on it tonight. As for the honesty part, it's a hard one. I understand what you're trying to say. But I'm not confident that my wife would, even if and when the fog lifts. But I do agree I need to do it for me. I appreciate you taking the time to detail what I can do. That's helpful. Melody- Please don't come across like you're attacking. I've had enough terrorism from my wife and that loser. I don't need another terrorist, even if they have good intentions.

Stillwater, I haven't posted to your thread before, but I think you may be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

MelodyLane has been on this site for a long time. She has recovered her own marriage and has helped innumerable people (including me) with her tireless efforts.

She doesn't have time to coddle people. Have you seen her post count? She's a Texas straight-shooter. You may find her approach abrasive, but she has a way of cutting through the bull5h!+

There's nothing you or I can say or do that MelodyLane hasn't seen or heard already. You can choose to ignore her, but to ignore her advice is to put recovery of your marriage in great peril.

Okay, MelodyLane doesn't need me to be her cheerleader. My suggestion to you would be to either heed to the good advice she's giving, or do it Stillwater's way.

If the latter, why are you here, then?

And it sounds to me like your emotions are very raw and angry, which is understandable. Sorry you are having such a rough time.

There's a difference between being blunt and being a blunt ***edit***. The most effective way to counsel or help someone is to use empathy along with great advice. Melody may have all the great advice in the world, but if you come across as a jerk, it'll fall on deaf ears. I got good advice yesterday from other posters who took the time to explain and were sympathetic. Melody's advice may work for some, but it isn't very helpful to me.

Please take it from a former reluctant follower:

Listen to Mel, Marital, Pep, NG, Susie, HHH, Nesre, markos, etc.

follow their advice.

It works, really.

FN = effing, which equals the F word.

Still, my friend, you are not thinking clearly and Melody�s advice is intended to shake you out of your own fog. She�s normally dead on with what she�s telling you. As far as not being honest to your wife goes: You don�t understand that you�re not dealing with your wife. Your wife is a wayward, which is a fogged out alien. There is no �being honest� with an alien. You don�t telegraph your moves in war. You don�t tell the other side what you�re going to do.

Cutting off contact with OMW is a BAD idea.

You want custody of your kids? You want to save this marriage? Then lower the guard, start listening, and start implementing. You�re flailing about and we simply wish to help. What you�re doing isn�t going to work.

Right now she�s going through withdrawal, but the affair could quickly and easily resume, especially if you allow her to control you by getting you to agree to things on her terms. SHE is the one that must act on YOUR terms. Doing this requires that you grow a set, listen, and put a plan in motion. It starts by listening to Melody, who has your best interests at heart.

I am starting my Plan B today. Since we have few if any friends nearby, I have talked to and will receive help of my father-in-law to be the intermediary. He has been neutral during this whole ordeal and agrees the affair is BS. Next is the PBL which I will start this morning. If you guys think it's ok, I may post my draft here to see what you think? I realize that what I have tried has not been effective. Also, here's a big question. Tomorrow is our anniversary. Last year was our 10th anniversary and I created a slideshow of us (photos) going back to when we were dating. She had nothing to give to me in return. It hurt. How do I handle tomorrow's anniversary?

And I'm not saying I don't want Melody's advice. I'm sure she's very experienced with this. I am trying to be as open as possible to all suggestions. All I'm asking is some helpful suggestions and tone down the beratement and sarcasm. Thanks.