If you want to move this to SAA (Lots more traffic on there and advice on how to beat this)
Click notify below and ask the moderators to move it....

Gail,

My WSTBXH claimed all along that OW was after him. I asked if he loved her and he said "no." And that he didn't find her attractive - that she was infatuated with him. My ego let me believe this - I couldn't believe that my H (very attractive man) would be attracted to her (dumpy, bad dresser, uneducated, socially inept and immature - the opposite of me). But what she did REALLY WELL was boost my H's ego - emails/texts I saw were always (you are the greatest, you're awesome, you're so smart, I'm so lucky, blah blah blah).

He eventually fell in love with her. Hard not to when it's all sex in hotel rooms and you're awesome - at home it's do the dishes, put the cranky kid to bed and how you like my flannel pjs?

The reality is this - any woman who gets involved with a married man has a screw loose. I was single and worked in a very male dominated business. The only time I went to lunch with any married men was to discuss business - NEVER AS FRIENDS. And usually, we had company. We never discussed relationship issues. But I have healthy boundaries with men.

The whole time he was cheating...he made me feel ugly, inadequate, crazy, incompetent. He sulked big time after I caught him the first time with the text messages and because I didn't act - they continued working together and he and I did not address the issues (he,too, has a need to please everyone around him by being the hero) in our marriage with him, his entitlement and desire grew and he began to rationalize doing the cruelest things to me.

You have a real chance if you act now and call Dr Harley to give you a plan.

I have notified the mods to move this to SAA. I wasn't sure how to do that previously, and kept forgetting to ask! Thank you for the heads up indiegirl.

Money is tight, so I don't think calling for counseling is an option. I will try to send an email like last time to Dr. Harley, but they no longer broadcast the MB program here and I have no headphones at work to listen to the response. Unless it is replayed? I'll start trying to sum all of this up in an email tonight.

Lunch went okay. When we first met he was upset over a coworker asking him for help right as he was on his way out the door. He ranted a bit about that, and then we started walking and looking for a restaurant. We found an outdoor one and sat and the conversation went alright. He did a lot of the talking, and I asked questions to show interest (even though honestly it wasn't stuff I particularly care about) I laughed at his jokes, and threw in some input as well. He seemed to be fairly happy as we were leaving and kissed me several times before he walked back to his building.

I feel better he stopped with the stonewalling. One thing I absolutely cannot stand is being given the silent treatment, or him acting icily towards me. I'd rather have a heated argument than do the other. He knows this too, I have told him it makes me feel nuts when communication is cut off.

I expect he will switch off and on as he has the past week. Going from being agreeable and loving, to icy or arguing with me and calling me insecure. He is obviously emotional about this, because he has an emotional attachment (as you guys said, he wouldn't feel this upset if it were Bob) to her and it is being threatened by me. He doesn't like being in this position of having to choose, he wants to keep eating his cake I realize.

He absolutely will have to choose though, because another lunch with her means plan B from me. In the meantime I will continue to watch, and be as pleasant as I can be while refusing to back down on this EA.

So far the past two days there have been no texts or phonecalls from his phone to her. Although, they can always talk at work or on work phones and computers so it's not much of a comfort.

That behavior causes me to go absolutely NUTS. I cannot stand to be shutdown, ignored or worse he pretends to go to sleep! Grrrr... it is abusive behavior IMHO.

faithful follower: I could not agree more. I think it is abusive too, it's his way of punishing me I feel and I have done absolutely nothing wrong which makes me feel even more crazy!

I can see if someone is just really upset and doesn't want conflict, and want to collect themselves before having a conversation. In that case he could say to me, "I love you, but I am upset right now and want to talk to you in a bit when I have collected my thoughts a bit" -- if he said that I would understand. But that isn't what his icy attitude is about I don't think, it is about the punishment and trying to get me to back down.

That is exactly what it is about. I KNOW my H is trying to not be that person any more. He once not long ago apologized to me and said he still did that purposefully knowing what my response would be long after his affair was over just because it was a "habit". HUH? I called him on it as abusive and hurtful.

My H hates conflict. So he used passive/aggressive behavior to shut me down. I now call him on it. But, he is not wayward anymore and I could NOT call him on it when he truly had something he needed to hide. You are going to need to learn to step out of the dance when he starts to do this. It is HARD but you can do it. I am extremely reactive so it plays perfectly into my angry, chasing, pleading behaviors. I had to change MY behavior to stop this ugly pattern.

It does rile me up, and there have been times I've exploded because I am tired of being ignored and shut out. I have been better about it as the years have gone on. So far I have not become angry once during this whole thing (well, not in front of him anyway) and have stayed fairly calm and firm. Which honestly surprises me that I've been able to do this, but I am certain coming here and getting the advice I have, and reading others stories has been invaluable and has made a huge difference in my responses.

I have to admit to something that I know is ugly. The OW is half asian and I've seen her pics. Everytime I see an Asian woman now I get these feelings of anger and jealousy now.

Also, I have been feeling so disgusting and this is really taking a toll on my self esteem. I know this goes far deeper than physical appearances, and my husband is having emotional needs met by this woman. But I know she is a lot thinner than I am and I feel like a cow lately.

I have PCOS and have always struggled with my weight. I lost 25lbs to get down to 150 (I am 5'7")and have maintained that for a while but I never got to my goal of 130.

I need to start working out, starting tonight. I know I shouldn't let it make me feel bad, but it does. I don't want to be out of shape or chubby. The fact she is thinner and my weight has been a life long struggle really hits me where it hurts.

She's a size 4, and that is about what the last woman he had an EA with was as well. I haven't been a size 4 since elementary school and that is not a joke.

Well, get this, I am size 4 and half-Asian (supposedly the "type" my H is has always been attracted to) and my H has had several affairs on me!

My H has a strong EN for physical attractiveness particulary when it comes to weight so over the last three years I have worked hard on getting in great shape and when I looked at OW3's FB photos, I was shocked, she is NOT thin!

It's everything to do with boundaries and nothing to do with looks...

I know it's easier said than done but try not to get down on yourself. However, I do encourage you to exercise, it's natural destresser/antidepressant.

Hang in there

I agree with susie q, lots of people shocked my hub chose the OW to have an affair with

Shes chunky and old looking. The thing is she knows how to flutter her eyelashes and be oh so grateful for every little thing he does.

Plus its fantasyvile. They show up with their lies and stories and moaning and just say whatever the other one wants to hear.

By the way you h reacted to your admiration and laughing at jokes, id say thats the need shes meeting.

And btw, she could be a supermodel, but if she having an EA with your h, she's damaged goods willing to take scraps and look up to a MARRIED man who is flirting with her.

That doesnt sound like much of a catch to me.

I know this sounds good...but for some reason it makes me deeply uneasy. He's been pouting so much that suddenly he's falling in line with your demands? I'm worried he's just becoming even more secretive now, especially if he knows you're watching his phone. And that's a really bad sign.....

I know it's hard to leave a job in this economy. But.....is he at least willing to start looking? And leave if the opportunity arises?

"I have to admit to something that I know is ugly. The OW is half asian and I've seen her pics. Everytime I see an Asian woman now I get these feelings of anger and jealousy now. "

Gail,

This is no more ugly than a BS seeing a wooden bridge where a WS had a moment with an A partner. It's a trigger. Do you hate all bridges? No. Do you hate the trigger that every wooden bridge gives you? Yes. Your thoughts and triggers are 100% justified, and at the same time folks here will help you deal with them. Don't worry about getting all politically correct here. Unless you are worried that MB folks will think you are an anti-wooden-bridge-tite.

Triggers are triggers, whether in a person or a hair color or a rock in a pond. There is nothing ugly about your particular trigger except the defintion, which sucks.

Agree with other posters here. Your H is having an emotional need met and it's probably admiration.

Your looks probably don't have a lot to do with it, although working out will make you feel better about yourself and make you feel more attractive. When you feel better about yourself, you'll be able to meet his needs and think clearly. I have found some of the clearest moments during Plan A and Plan B on an elliptical trainer...while listening to CeeLo's "F*** You" of course.

FWIW...My H has repeatedly said to me that I am the most beautiful and sexy woman he has ever been with. When I met his friends, they were all shocked he got me to date him:) Even after I discovered the affair, he commented on how good I look.

Never stopped him from still hooking up with the loser OW or ruining our lives..the loser OW who looks like an oompa loompa hooker with bad teeth.

I hear you on being triggered. The OW is of a different nationality and when I hear her language or see someone that looks like her, I want to punch them in the face!!!

Gail, you can click on my thread link in my siggy and see where I began when I came here almost 2 years ago. I will tell you that your story sounds so much like mine, that I could only read page 1 before I had to post to you. HE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR. There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind, as there is none in yours, which is why you chose to come back. I apologize if you answered any of the following questions and comments I will make in this or future posts, I had a VERY hard time reading what I deem as myself 2 years ago. I shudder to think about what you are on the brink of, and what you are about to go through.

A little short form of my own story. My WH and I started dating when I was 16 and he was 18. I was his first GF, and he was my first SF. We were mostly happy. Most people described us as a perfect fit, he and I were like ying and yang. His strengths covered my weaknesses and my strengths covered his.

He always had weak boundaries around women, but he would just say, "I already have you, so I am just comfortable around women now, since there is no pressure." before we were married, he was most likely an OM in a L/D EA. This caused a HUGE rift, but we got through it. He had female friends at work, always. I was always invited to go out with them, etc. He even had 2 different women who he would go to lunch and breaks with who I referred to as his "work wives." It was all innocent fun. he would tell me about the pranks they would all pull on each other, etc. All the funny things they would do. Sometimes, I would laff along, and others, I thought they just weren't funny.


Then, the fateful date of Nov 9th, 2007 at 119pm(this rocked my world, so I remember it clearly), I received an anonymous phone call from a co-worker of his. Apparently, he was spending a lot of time with a female co-worker, and this anonymous source wanted to let me know. I was SHOCKED. I was devastated. I was lost, I didn't have MB. I didn't know what to do, and I believed what he said. I believed them BOTH. They lied to me. And OW, she had a BF at the time. Not anymore. Now her BF, is MY WH( ). There were MANY times that I should have demanded that he leave his job, and stay NC with her FOR LIFE. WHo knows, things may have been different if I had the benefit of MB back then, but it sure is helping me now.

You caught this now, and you have the benefit I never got, use it. USE MB ALL THE WAY.

I agree he has probably become more secretive. I wish I could trust him, but I don't. I've been looking at getting a phone tracker and I think I am going to put a voice activated recorder in his vehicle for those days he does drive to work.

As for the job, I don't think he would. I think things would come to a separation before he would leave. Not because of her, because he loves where he works and has high hopes for advancement. He was in a deep depression when he was staying at home and unemployed. He also did have a difficult time finding this job.

One good thing, maybe, that I had forgot is that by January he might be transferred to a different location. They are breaking up the one central location into five locations spread out. The bad thing is she could possibly be transferred to his location. They work in different departments so it's unlikely, but it could happen I suppose.

You're right. It is a trigger. When we were at lunch yesterday an attractive Asian lady was sitting next to our table and it brought me instantly back to what has been happening.

I am sorry, but this description is hilarious.

I agree Admiration is a biggie for my husband. I am going to try to giggle at his jokes, compliment him, ask him questions on things I know he likes to talk about and so forth.

We've been together nearly 12 years now, and married nine-years. I have come to a point where I blow him off a lot of the time when he's talking. I can see that now. I tend to shake my head at him when he says things too. I act a lot differently than I did when we were in the beginning of our relationship.

Another thing, and I hate even saying this but it is true is that we've been isolated for a long time. Our oldest son who is autistic has had several behavioral problems and often when he's around other children there is an issue, and out in public he's used to have large outbursts where everyone stopped to look. Over the years we just began isolating ourselves more and more to where we hardly ever leave the house anymore and don't have a lot of friends. I am bored, and I know he is bored too. I think having an affair would bring a lot of excitement to a rather dull life.

I told him last night we need to bring out children out of the house more often. Our oldest son is a lot better now, part of it is he is getting older, and he has also been in various therapies since he was three.

I also am going to continue to try and arrange one date night a week for just him and I, and want to try to do new things on these dates. In addition to the date night, I want to still do the lunches with him on a weekly basis. We haven't been meeting our UA needs in a long time and this whole thing has also opened my eyes to that.

It's strange how you can let things slide so much and don't notice it until something like this happens and then suddenly the issues are all so clear.

Scotland: Before I made this thread I searched for emotional affairs and your thread is the one I ended up reading. I stayed up for several hours and read almost the entire thing.

I was so impressed by the way you handled things, and how well you are doing now. I hope if things ever do come to the point they did in your marriage I can be as strong as you have been.

Reading your thread made me realize even if I don't prevent this from turning into a full on affair, or the next woman down the road, I would be okay in any case.

gail, this is going to be the key here, but it will take much more than just one date night. In order to create romantic love a couple needs 20+ hours of undivided attention time meeting these top 4 emotional needs: conversation, affection, rec companionship and sexual fulfillment. It takes 15 hours per week to MAINTAIN the romantic love. This is time that should be spent ALONE, without children and without friends around. I would focus more on doing with him ALONE than doing things with other children.

If you can get 2-3 date nights and a weekend afternoon together, you could easily make up the rest of the time at home when the kids are asleep. The BEST UA time, however, will be when you are OUT and away from the kids. And the reason for that is one has a completely different mindset when they have dressed up and are out versus sitting at home on the couch in your jogging pants late at night. Going out is exciting and fun and adds a whole fresh, fun dimension to your marriage.

This one step is so important that Harley says his program WON'T WORK without it. When he was in active practice he would not even counsel a couple who would not commit to the weekly UA time. So, that is where I would start, because I suspect you have not been spending 15 hours of UA time a week together and that has made your marriage vulnerable.

15-20 hours a week with no kids? We probably don't even get 5 hours.

This past week I've been making an effort and we spent maybe an hour and a half going to dinner the other night, one hour going to lunch yesterday and some conversations that have maybe added up to a couple of hours. That is maybe 4.5 hours - with me trying to to get us more alone time. Normally there wouldn't have been the dinner, there wouldn't have been the lunch and throughout the week we would have talked about our kids, bills, etc. and maybe hung out and watched a tv show or two together.

Up until two weeks ago, our last date was in February.

Finding a sitter just once a week has been difficult, more than that unfortunately won't work out most of the time. So I need to be creative to get those hours in. I can make it two trips a week down to his office for lunch. I'd love to go daily, but it would end up being too expensive with the parking and meals. Also I never go to lunch, I've always eaten at my desk and worked through lunch. It's hard to get all of my work done when I am gone 1-2 hours during the day. But two days should be doable, and that will give us two hours a week of UA we weren't doing before.

One date night a week should total up to a few extra hours, so we'd be at five hours. Wow, this is tough.

We'd have to spend two hours each night after the kids go to bed to come close to the 20 hours. But we are usually in bed one hour after our kids, and in that time are prepping things for the next day.

How on earth do people do this?

From the time my husband walks in the door from work, til the time we go to bed is four hours. In that time there is dinner, cleaning up after dinner, getting kids to bed, taking care of our dog, getting things ready for the next day, etc.

Gail, I would work REAL HARD on getting in quality UA time, because it will make the biggest impact on your marriage. If you can get more nights out by hiring babysitters, I would do it. Look for creative ways to put less important things aside. There is NOTHING more important than your marriage. Your kids safety and security depends on your solid, intact marriage. And this is even more important to you because you have an autistic son. A divorce would be a DISASTER.

Will you read this and come back and give me your thoughts? The Policy of Undivided Attention

And here is Dr Harley's quote from more from Effective Marriage Counseling:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When I see a couple for the first time, I let them know that my program will require a minimum of fifteen hours a week of their time. If they can't dedicate that much time while I'm counseling them, I suggest they find another counselor because my plan won't work without it."

The way they do it is to push aside all those less important things and have a BABYSITTER get the kids to bed and take care of the dog. You could order a pizza or something for the kids. When your H hits the door, he changes clothes and you go OUT for the evening.

NONE of the above tasks are as important as your marriage.