If he is in her head still, then this is definitely not what is normal, from what I know of the usual amount of time a ww needs to withdraw from an om WITHOUT continued contact of any kind.

Agree completly, He should not be an issue, as now it should be recognised as a fantasy, and not a real need. The man is not special, as a matter of fact he is pretty creepy, to pursue a married woman, regardless of how he was painted out to be in her imagination.

But if there is continued contact, or confusion as to where she belongs and her loyalties belong, she will stay in that limbo of insecurity that seems/feels the right place to go in her head.

The best way for me to say it is from the scriptures, because there can be only one way to think to go in any good direction, and she is thinking all over the place it seems. Sorry if I sound preachy, but she needs to pick a direction
_________________________
James 1:8
A double minded man/(woman), is unstable in all his/(her) ways

_________________________

Matthew 6:23-25
King James Version (KJV)


23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

_____________________

I know I know this covers a multitude of things, but the point is, is this is more than the details of life, and the past does not really matter, if we focus on the now and the future.

She needs to grab onto something tangible, as Fred says ,"When your going through Hell,just keep going, don't stop and look around". You are suppling the tangible reality that you will work on your marriage till death do you part, and yourself if that becomes nessesary, with total O&H and Enthusiatic agreement in POJA. Remain focused on that, so she knows it, because that is he best hope to restore intimacy for both of you.

I don't like unions in general, because the last thing I need between me and my Boss is someone else explaining what I want and need. I would rather have a dialog with my Boss, and a relationship, and not someone to be in the way of that. But that intimacy is not possible without O&H, or a fear of it either, and the union divides instaed of making it nessesary to develop it for communication. To many chiefs and not enough indians so to speak. (Good thing Jimmy Hoffa isnt around to find me Lol). Im not saying Unions are not needed sometimes, or that all Bosses are even able to deal with others properly. Its just in this situation with your soulmate, it is more nessesary to connect.

So all her counselors, along with her own mind, are dividing you guys from your common goals, which are to care for each other in an intimate relationship second to none other,(nobody else), in this life. I might be re-stating the obviuos here, but she needs to decide she is going to work with you with the guidance from someone who knows about transformation and metamorphisis into a new life by taking the actions of faith and control of her thoughts. All these counselors are like too many Chiefs, and restoring love is possible if you follow one coach and are obediant to him. We are not so diffrent in that we all need help, but following the right teaching is crucial, and its interesting that even Dr H is following the lead from above, which is why it works. He doesnt even know why just that it does, and he knows how to get us all there. Is it Gods design maybe?

I hope this helps in some way, and encourages you not to give up. Stay strong and patient, and give it all you have, because yes she is worth it, as are you.

Simple question;

Is she taking her meds regularly and as prescribed?

This is the FIRST thing that needs to be assessed.

If she is not taking her meds, the rest is pretty nil to look at.

Yes. She is.

Her zoloft has increased. But we are considering a review with a new physician. There are more options today. She tried Wellbutrin for a few years and zoloft the past two.

From personal experience, she needs to have one psychiatrist looking at these meds and not be switching doses without some time (3-4 weeks?) passing to allow adjustment to the dose.

Getting the meds figured out will help, but, at some point, she's going to have to put her big girl pants on and make a decision.

Or you make the decision for her. Mine boiled down to "If you want a divorce, you're going to have to go file for one tomorrow because I'm not living like this anymore."

Like the others said, you need a third party to run interference for you with this IC that she's seeing.

Looking back at old posts. This from NG back in May.
Yes, it does feel like an endurance run,

Trouble deciding if I am doing the right thing.

Just wishing for her to come out of her depression and fall back in love with me. DOing what I can to show her that love. And feeling rejected.

All my family and friends and my counselor applaud me for the devotion and commitment. Consensus seems to be that everyone else would have given up on her by now. You know, sometimes if the other person just doesn't love you, doesn't try, has an agenda to get out of the marriage.....

I am working on a recovery and she is not. She just isn't trying. And it hurts.

She wears the ring now.... EP's show no signs of OM. But depression is bad. She has gained a lot of weight. Bad eating. Bad sleeping. No exercise. Hard time finishing any projects. And SF has disappeared for two months.

She is going to regret throwing this man away.

But my counselor today said, "I am confident Stretch will be okay. You are going to be great. I am sad for you Stretch. Its a shame. You want a deeper love and lifelong commitment to someone."

Stretch,

Again; her depression has to be addressed. Right med, right dose, right interval.

Without that, you are just banging your head against the wall.

Stretch - sorry to read your last post. Hang in there as long as you can. I agree with HHH - but at the same time, I wouldn't fault you, if you walked away. You've been here and trying for a long time. So, if that's the case, you need to care of the kids and yourself. That way your (f)WW can work on herself. Hopefully the doctors will find the right dosage and interval for the meds - and then see what happens. The depression appears to be serious, the way you describe it. FWIW - my still WW looks hagard, tired and she's also gained weight, but she shows no sign of letting up on anything. (I see her at handoffs).

Just from my own experience, I'd guess that she isn't mentally able to put forth the effort required and, getting frustrated, just falls back to the "easy" solution. You could always ask, but realize that she probably doesn't see "hope" anywhere in her mind because, well, that's just the way the chemicals are treating her these days.

A depressed person cannot fix themselves, or they would. They do not chose to feel hopeless, but it's just where they are. Your job is not to try to fix anything, but to be supportive and NOT treat her like a mental case or follow her around with a straight-jacket.

Again, you need at third party (parents, siblings, counselor) to encourage her to talk to her psychiatrist about her medication. Hopefully, she's seeing someone other than a general practitioner. And that's no offense intended to any medical personnel reading, just that sometimes a specialist is warranted.


That's a good thing, right?


Buddy, I promise you she didn't wake up one day and decide to be like this. But she needs to know that you know that and your actions/behavior will drive that impression home to her. Make sense?

Of those things, you can take the lead on the meals and activities that encourage family exercise. Exercise is really important to the depressed mind, I'd encourage you to get creative here as your wife likely isn't going to be able to do it on her own. But don't be obvious and let her know it's for her benefit, just say let's take a walk as you (stretch) could use the exercise.


Been there, buddy. And I've got a broken dashboard in my truck to prove it. It's the most effed-up thing or loss that I've ever dealt with, and that's putting it pretty mildly.

But it's just an unfortunate side-effect of most anti-depressants and, generally, her emotional state of mind at the moment. Ease the depression and you'll likely see the other issues fade away as well. But the depression has to be treated first. Sorry, no easy way about it.



Yes, she probably would. But have you honestly done everything you can? You've got kids here, I'd encourage you to dig deeper on this. I'm a bit on the other end of this, but lived through that crap that ravaged my wife's mind and our family and came through it better than ever. Look, 2010 and a good bit of 2011 just aren't worth remembering for me, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel there, it's just you cannot see it and your wife doesn't even think it exists.

In terms of filling my Emotion Needs, she has said, "I can't do any more than I am right now. Based on how I feel. I won't fake it."

She told our MC basically, "I am only able to do the bare minimum."

What's acceptable? Acceptable to me?

That is Open and Honest at least. I'll accept that. But I have the right to be open and honest back: "That hurts. I don't want to be married to a partner that admits : 'I can only do the minimum.'" "To me, its rather selfish right now. What if either of us said the same thing abour parenting? Or our work? Or taking care of our bodies and minds?"

But, evidently, to so many "professionals" its okay to say: "I can only do the minimum to care for my life partner right now." Substitute our children into that sentance and watch societies pitchforks come out!

Meanwhile, I am working harder every day to take care of her ENs. And my children. And myself. And my work. Meanwhile, she is not doing her best to take care of me, or our children or herself or her work.

Sorry Stretch, if it helps you recovery is hard even when everyone is healthy. I still have lots of days where I want to throw in the towel, and she does too.

You don't make it by quitting...just keep fighting.

She is happy and fun tonight. I would just like some positive attention and affection. Some effort

Well, I'll play devil's advocate for a spell...

You're assuming that she's deliberately acting like this. It's your call on what degree is deliberate versus what is spawned by the depression. You're essentially telling her to "just get over it" or "look on the bright side" which, I guarantee you, is pissing her off.

It's like telling an alcoholic or cancer victim to just "get over it". They would if they could.


No, they're not saying that but they're being realistic in what someone with severe depression can and cannot do. And, Stretch, reminding someone of what they're doing wrong isn't going to make them turn around.


I know, man, you didn't sign up for all this but are having to carry the load for everyone. But it's what you've got. Your wife needs to know that you understand (or, are trying to understand) this depression. Empathy.

There was a post a few pages back by brokenvase:


I think brokenvase was dead on or, at least, could have been my wife writing that. If this depression is the root of this mess (and not an OM in the wings), then I'd be inclined to edit the above and read it to your wife--say you were reading about depression and ran across a letter someone wrote and wondered if that is what it was like for your wife.

I bet you can pull through this, but it's going to take some work on your end while getting nothing in return. Besides, you know, deep down, that you don't want pity sex or for your wife to fake any emotion.

So ends my soapbox speech. All this, of course, is null and void if this depression is a front to an OM or overly toxic friend causing noise.

Good, now do whatever you did again.

Did she crash today?

Null and void for those reasons yes, also for any other fantasies
I'm depressed, but consider it my problem really

I am seeing the shrink Monday, and telling him to give me whatever it takes to shut up my mind, and get me to work paying bills and working, so I can leave this place at least owing nobody nothing, and my kids to have something when I go

Is that prideful? I'm sure it is, I'm sure that would make sense, examining my situation and the fact that I am human

I am sure nobody else will forgive me for that either, besides God, and so I find myself alone in that, unless I belong to some other group, organization, or specific religion.

The "drug" therapy, will only be part of the journey. My biggest challenge and relief, along with accomplishment, will be to accept reality and deal with it, not hide from it as I am medicated

I am not willing to accept that drugs are an answer, only part of a crutch I need on the way to healing.

Or else I might as well start looking for magic wands

Of course in my stubborn traditional way of thinking: I DID SIGN UP FOR ALL THIS! I did when I took those vows and made that commitment.

stretch, this is "the good and the bad" glad you are sticking to your word........
hang in there,
jessi

We had a great weekend. She told me in bed Sunday night, "Great weekend. You are a really good guy."

Some affection. Some hugs. Good kisses. Touching in bed. I thought she wanted to go further. But didn't.

What did I do? Attentive to kids and her. Pleasant man.

I took oldest son to Def Leppard Friday.
Took wife on a date Saturday. Paddleboarding on the Lake. Rooftop cocktails afterward.
Made lunch for the kids while she napped.
Helped oldest son with boy scout uniform.
Took them all on bikeride to Dairy Queen.
Adjusted DD new bike seat.
Got them outside cutting trees and pulling weeds.
Encouraged wife's writing.
Dishes and laundry.

Most of those efforts above are not earth shaterring new things. Just doing a little more than in the past. I've always been about all those things. That's not new Stretch 2.0. That's just extra effort.

What she probably notices the most is my efforts to listen more patiently, and communicate mpore. Less lecture and talk, talk, talk... (this is what Stretch thinks and must tell you).

Her depression is focused on other things right now:
--A spat with her older sister
--How difficult different parts of her childhood were.
--Why she is a SAHM. Why her husband made a big bonus and she is thinking about picking up shifts as a waitress or working at a pet store. (On this last one I take care to point out that my big earnings are something we achieved together. She helps)

Thanks. Still not a full marriage. Still not a full recovery commitment. I am swallowing a lot of hurt and rejection. Taking it elsewhere. Family, my counselor, my exercise, this forum.

Just been a decent couple of weeks. We have MC in a few hours. Last session, we were talking a lot about separation.