the anger about exposure is on honeyandsage thread

but you can find it on lots of threads, because it is a very common reaction.


expose the affair!

Widely, and be kind when you do it.


"My husband and ________ are having an adulterous affair. I want my marriage to survive. I love my husband, and would love nothing more than to have the support and love from my friends and family in this difficult time. Please support marriage, and I ask you to please discourage this affair. As you stood up for us at our wedding, please stand up for us now in our time of need as a couple. We are facing a terrible trial, but with the love and support of everyone, I know we can make it through this. I believe in my husband, I believe in our love, and ask that you join me in the fight for my marriage."

You don't bash him, you don't bash OW. You ask for support for MARRIAGE, and you play on their support for the concept of love and marriage and family.

Nobody can say you were bashing anyone. You are upbeat, yet exposing.

You do not put anyone down, you are asking for help and love and support.


You will get it.


SB

Having an emotional day because I answered the phone when the WS called. He said he is going to get a new job away from OP. He wants our marriage. I said okay let me know when that happens. No AO just said it to the point and hung up.

I know I must just continue on in life until he can come to the table.

A basic question about this site? I see a few spouses who are both on here each having their own posts. Is there a way for both to be on the forum but not be able to read each others posts? I do not see a privacy tab.

Has it been seen that the chances of success in MB increases having both on the forum?

**edit** Sorry you're having a rough day.

I am putting the questions below out there again for an answer. Should I even tell my spouse about this site and encourage involvement?

A basic question about this site? I see a few spouses who are both on here each having their own posts. Is there a way for both to be on the forum but not be able to read each others posts? I do not see a privacy tab.

Has it been seen that the chances of success in MB increases having both spouses on the forum?

It is generally advised that you don't tell the WS about the site until you are sure that the affair(s) are stopped, and that the WS is on board for recovering the marriage. You probably need to keep this site as your safe place for advice and venting for now.

knowing, you don't want to bring a cheating spouse here. It will make it impossible for us to help you.

But you can leave Surviving and Affair lying around the house. The nearer the toilet, the better, and I don't mean that as an editorial comment.

Well today I reread SAA and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed with thought of the actual transformation our current marriage would have to go through to be in a romantic state. It could take years. Maybe I am looking for an excuse to leave the arena! And run!

Then I have the disrespectful judgement: could my WS ever change his personality traits? Especially those that prop open his love bank allowing other women to make a deposit? like flirting?

That's not a DJ, it's a legitimate question.

He would have to show you through lots and lots of consistent actions. If he won't, then you have your answer.

Addictions are something else in how they cloud a persons thought process. My WS called me last night at 1:30am to wake me up, which he has never done before, to say he is sorry for all the hurt and pain he has caused me. That he wants our marriage and he wants to get back together. I asked, do you have a new job? He said no and that he is looking for one with less travel. I said it has to have NO travel.(Not sure if he gets that part.) Then he said he misses me and wants us to work on our relationship. I said that is impossible with the OP still in your life because once our relationship starts to take work you will take the easy road back to the OP. I just said you need to take ACTION, your words are of no value as they were devalued while in the fog.

Question, does a WS stay in a fog of some sort-heavy or light-until they no longer have contact with the OP? Like my WS says his affair is over, is he still in the fog as long as they are contact?

The withdrawl? What personal experience can someone tell me about that? Does the WS need to really look at drugs to get thru it? And is it hard during that time to keep the WS from contacting the OP? Needing that next drink? This withdrawl time seems scary like you would have to be parked on Dr. Harleys backdoor step to keep all intact.

I CAN NOT let myself accept the same situations I have accepted in the past after one of my WS affairs. It all has to be the MB way, this time. I do not want to look back in 3 years saying I should have left, while confronting a new affair. THIS is hard for me to want more for myself and my marriage, I AM NOT USE TO IT! Does that make sense to anyone? Anyone ever had that for themselves? Maybe this has something to do with how I grew up...the last of 4 children.....not expecting much from others for my happiness? Or I have just accepted it as a norm in our marriage not knowing any differently. Thank God I found MB. I want more...I want a great marriage with my WS or not one at all.

This is why you should be writing him a letter.
(Plan B letter)
Spell out exactly what is expected of him.
And let HIM figure it out. Put some responsibility on him.

I see a WH who has latched onto this "fog" idea as a way to be blameless. It wasn't me, it was the fog.
He needs to start taking personal responsibility for his actions. He needs to start repairing the damage he's done.

Not just pacify you with apologies while he CONTINUES the actions that hurt you.

He hasn't done anything special. Calling you in the middle of the night to say he's sorry? Big deal.

Quitting his job. That would be noteworthy.

Look for ACTIONS not WORDS. Words are easy.

Yes, he will be socked in deep fog until NC has been in place for a while. Once NC has been implemented, he will slowly begin to defog if he does not continue to be triggered, like if he had to drive near her home to get to work or something like that.

Not every WS needs drugs to cope with the withdrawal, though it is always hard for them. They have to be committed to get past it.

GOOD FOR YOU for no longer being willing to accept what you had. You're worth it!

Spoke with some family members tonight to expose about the affair. They think I am crazy to stay with the WS. They say they could never see forgiving such an act. I explain the just compensation idea and Dr. Harley plan to restore a marriage.

I know some of you have recovered with the plan so it is good to talk to you for support. Because my family looks at me like I am in a crazy state of mind.

Go easy on them. Until you've been through it, you just can't understand until you see the end results.

As I remain in Plan B I am starting to question "Is my WS a man who is capable of becoming a faithful husband in a trusting marriage relationship?" Or is he a "bad" man behaving badly who inheritantly will always remain to do so. (Just read a book on this topic.) It is the multiple offenses-affairs-deception- that makes me look at this.

I am sure this is a normal feeling. Has any of you felt this and what helped you to look past multiple affairs in order to consider doing the marriage plan with Dr. Harley? Where do I get the confidence to give our marriage/him another opportunity? Being vulnerable again is scary? Is it not my doing? Must I just wait for my WS to create the safety I need? But again, how do I determine if he is just a "bad" apple? Please help me with this struggle.

knowing,

You ask if your WS can change.

People can change. Of course they can. The basis of change is built into our brains, from the standpoint of neurological structure. We learn, therefore, we change. Each thing you learn is brought into the brain, and the brain uses the information to form new ideas, new links, and based on those, new behaviors emerge. We just cannot avoid change.

John Knowles said it in French, in the book "A Separate Peace": "Nothing endures, not a tree, not love, not even a death by violence."

What he was talking about was that very concept of change. Whether it is change through physical growth (the tree growing, aging, and then dying), or change in the way we carry our emotions and relationships (how love begins, matures, becomes settled in our lives, has its ups and downs), or even how the most tragic events change over time in our minds and memories (for example, the process of initial shock, then our denial, then anger, then ultimately, acceptance, and perhaps over time how we may become more able to look back at process the event with slightly less pain as time begins to erode that initial shock).

So change occurs. Your question is more about whether your husband will make the changes necessary to save the marriage; will he stop the affair behavior; will he make the fundamental changes to himself that keep resulting in his choices to have affairs; WILL HE CHOOSE TO CHANGE?


Frame the question to him that way.


Because the fact is, he will change - one way or the other. He may continue to be a serial cheater, and change so that he is more difficult to catch. He may change to better meet your needs, but continue to have the mindset that he was "entitled" to his affairs, and still blame you for his affair choices.

The best outcome is what you have said, "I want a great marriage with my WS or not one at all."

You can have that. Your WS has to become a FWS, has to learn the concepts, take them in as his way of life, understand the idea that he must protect his marriage from future affairs, own his affairs as 100% his....you know this. The hardest part for you is that you know it, and you can lead him to the water but can't get him to drink!


ARGH

So you are stuck and possibly looking at a Plan B, if your WS is stuck at the revolving door eating cake.

Withdrawal is hard, and if you can hang in there, be consistent, you can come out fine. Stay consistent in your message, which you have been doing.

He can change.

You can save the marriage. And you are also right - it will take a couple of years, once he is on board.


It is worth it.


SB

Schoolbus,

It is worth it!? You say?

Does anyone have a post on what a couple has experienced in their marriage after reaching the goal of a Mr. Harley based marriage? Jon and Sue in SAA do not give their final account. Some inspiration like that would help me! I am holding onto hope so tightly.

My WS needs to change his current career path- the only one he has ever known- in order to remove himself from exposure to OP and to make a recovery possible (no traveling, home every night).

With WS in the fog. I even question his capability to reason with himself to make such a milestone change in his career path. What will bring him to that point of decision?

To think, he was willing to throw everything (marriage,career, family and friends) away for the A. Just crazy! Irrational like Harley states.

Hi Knowing,
Sorry, I have not read your entire thread. Just wanted to share some hope. There are quite a lot of threads where couples have successfully survived an affair TOGETHER using MB principles. Schoolbus herself is one of them I believe, although I have not read her thread in its entirety. Check out princessmeggy's (more then one affair from memory and she admits her response was not conducted on MB principals initially), sexymamabear (and her FWH herpapabear), Mr and Mrs Wondering, Neak, just to name a few (and sorry for others who I have overlooked, feel free to chime in).

One thing I would suggest is to look at the bigger MB picture. Jon and Sue do not give their "final account"... because MB principles should be practiced for life in order to affair-proof a marriage and keep the romantic love alive. It is not a matter of simply surviving an affair, but ensuring it NEVER happens again.

Knowing, I just read your thread... your WH is quite the cake-eater from the sounds of it!

Have you sent the Plan B letter? How long have you been in Plan B?

Plan C needs to be taken off the table.