SB,

That was EXTREMELY well thought out. Very good reply.

Second to the last paragraph.... Some people cannot be strong like that.... Why? The only answer is it is inherent in our nature. Because if it is LEARNED behavior, everyone can be like that. If I continue your logic, well affairs are inherent in our nature. So they should be OK because we can't help it.

Sorry. Don't buy it. I have been all over the world and seen some pretty rough circumstances. I will never sell a human being short in their ability to overcome. If one is not, my opinion, one just does not want to. Maybe naive, admittedly. But I've been able to do most everything I have put my mind to. And the things I can't, I've learned to live with and not let them get me down.


Aph,

How are you? It has been a LONG time. I brought in the other topics for contrast. To illustrate the fact that we are pretty clear as a society on some issues, but not on others that (at least to me) are the same issue.

If my son died in combat and war protesters were making a ruckus at his funeral, few would think that acceptable. It dishonors the service. Hey, maybe you don't believe in the war, but honor the soldier and show some respect.

But a wayward? No way would they think like that. Why? Affairs are inherently extremely selfish. What wayward wouldn't want to be there to bask in the glory of their kids most beautiful day...... even though they sort of dishonor it.

But were they there when the kid is projectile vomiting, or when the err and you have to go meet the principal, or when it's time to plunk down the cash on the first car.... NOT.

But I like what 'bus said. There is a yin and yang to things.

Courage without the temperance of wisdom can turn into brutality, etc.

One more note to add ...

What gets me today is people do not put Adultery up there with stealing and murder. It is the exact same thing.

If you are getting married would you invite a known murderer to your wedding if they aren't sorry?

If you are getting married would you invite a known thief to your wedding if they aren't sorry?

Adultery is the same sin, it produces the same pain (maybe more), and it is a Commandment.

Society has lessoned the rules on adultery, and I am not sure why? If it is wrong to murder and one goes to jail, then why isn't adultery in the same category.

Adultery destroys the foundation of our society. How much money would the United States save if we didn't have a 50% divorce rate and kids living in two different households?

How different would a wedding be if you knew going into the marriage you would be arrested and thrown in jail if you committed adultery?

My ds11 had this exact conversation with his dad (my WXH) a few weeks ago. I was present for the conversation and it wasn't pretty....but ds was expressing his disgust at XH still being involved with OW and XH said something about forgiving and not judging and ds said, 'you aren't sorry or you wouldn't still be seeing her! What worse thing could you have done Dad? Besides Murder what worse thing could you have done?'

The look on XHs face. Out of the mouths of babes.

Dh and I were discussing a friend of ours whose marriage is blowing up....and we commented on how the marriage contract is a joke. If business contracts were broken in the same manner people would be sued and/or go to jail.

Hey ncw. Yes it has been a loooong time. Good to hear from you too. I go for long periods of time without posting or even reading here. But I seem to be in a paroxysm of posting this past couple of weeks. What, six? Anyway, I need to go away for a while again. This place makes me sad. And often mad.

Interesting thought experiment though. IMO, one reason adultery has almost no legal or societal consequences is because that is what adulterers themselves want. There are so many of them they tend to steer society in directions supporting their desires - from media and entertainment to laws and justice. And they squeal like stuck pigs until they get what they want. No fault divorce itself is an example. It was pushed mostly by male lawyers and politicians for their own continued adulterous benefit.

Oh, and I agree with you. I would not attend the hypothetical wedding either. I would make sure everyone knew why, too. But, I don�t think I would attend even if the adulterer said they are hypothetically sorry. That is almost always theater. Someone like your ex who did so much damage to so many lives and then says, �Well I wish I hadn�t done it.� should get away with it that easily?

Enough hypothetical hyperbole. I am doing great and DS is doing very well in college. I hope you and your children are also doing well and do better and better forever.

ncw,

Just because something is either inherent in our nature or learned behavior does not make it "right" or "wrong".

Being strong enough to stand up for something right, or stand against something wrong takes fortitude. It also takes a belief in your own values, such that you truly know that what you believe simply is a universal truth - and that you trust in this truth such that it would apply to all humans everywhere.

Some people do not have this much belief in their own convictions. Others do not have what it takes to take a stand in public against anything, even when they do believe strongly. What makes someone a Rosa Parks? Did she wake up that one morning an ordinary woman, and then her usual persona threw down the shackles of inhibition, and she just "had enough"? Was she always the kind of woman who took a stand, and did she plan this?

What of MLK? We know he was special, that he took a stand from the start. Abe Lincoln, too. Others were thrust into the position of leadership, and took it on as it was handed to them. Consider the Medal of Honor winners, who woke up as ordinary soldiers one day, and as the sun set found themselves to be heroes because they stood their ground against an enemy. These men never expected this, yet found it in themselves.

Other men, in the same situation, might have yielded to the enemy. Some men as POWs never gave up any information at all. Others cracked under the pressure.

Are those who cracked bad men? No. Just not as strong in the face of fire.


We are made of different mettle. You would not invite the wayward ex to the wedding. My oldest daughter wouldn't either.

In the case of my youngest daughter? She did. Oddly enough, for her husband's family, it actually turned out to be something of a miracle for them. I know that sounds very strange, but to them, it worked in a positive direction.


Goes to show you what hypotheticals are.


We never know what we would really do, or really get in the end.


After all, there are quite a few of us here who said, "If my spouse ever had an affair, I would divorce him/her."

Yeah. Right....