DG, it is most certainly not too late for your marriage at all. And you don't have to pay for counseling if you are organized and methodical enough to follow this program. We can walk you through it.

Well...I'll start with this counseling session...which will hopefully get us focused on our communication issues. While I wholeheartedly agree with the general concepts of the Love Bank, and EN's....all this stuff is very forward thinking (future).....I DO think we need someone to help us identify our communication issues, which have caused so much strife for us. Hopefully, if we can learn to communicate...and get a committment from her to focus on the marriage....then MB philosophies can take root. In the meantime...I still will try to speak her Love Language..and work on EN's. Not that she has identified them..but I know a couple. AND..by all means...avoid the LB's.

DG, but you have no "communication" issues. That would be a distraction. The problem is that you and your wife have fallen out of love and she is in the beginning phase of an emotional affair. Even the best "communicators" end up divorced.

Nor does "Love Languages" have a plan to save your marriage. Speaking her "LL" is a waste of valuable time that could be spent on saving your marriage.

What you need is a plan to save your marriage. Please don't waste your time with this other psychobabble.

By the way...last night, I lost it again...because I noticed a call she made to a new cell number (on Monday)..for 17 minutes. She NEVER makes cell calls longer than 3-5 minutes. So, I investigated. I couldn't get the name on the phone...but the trace put it RIGHT at the OM's area. I lost it, and called the number. The voicemail sounded like the OMW's voice. Heart beating...I went upstairs and woke her up wanting to know who she talked to on Monday. She said it was OMW.

Me: "Why did you call her"
Her: "she sent me a message asking me to call her."
Me: "why didn't you tell me."
Her: "why would I need to tell you anything?"
Me: "you have to know how sensitive I am about this."
Her: silence
Me: "what did you talk about"
Her: silence
Me: "you show no remorse, what so ever"
Her: "Because I have nothing to be remorseful about."
Me: "you wanted to do something"
Her: "no I didn't"
me: "really??? If not...then why were the first words out of your mouth 'I wouldn't have gone through with it.' And why did you slump completely when I showed you the cell phone."
Her: silence
Me: "you won't say anything?"
Her: "why can't we just talk about this on Saturday?" (counseling session)
Me: "because I don't believe you will try. You never tried last year, when we went to our minister. we were assigned 30 minutes of together time, each day. you couldn't get passed the second day, before you quit that."
Her: silence
Me: "You won't talk to me?"
Her: silence
Me: "what did I ever do to you, so bad?"
Her: "why can't we just talk about this on Saturday?"

I just turned and walked away.

I don't do another move without talking to you guys. It appears there are some texts between that phone, and my wife this morning. I'm assuming because I called the phone. I really feel the OMW didn't get it..and thinks her husband was trying to help. Now...I got the three of them against me. {face palm} So...how do I respond to THAT tonight...assuming she even talks to me?

DG, you are one very lucky guy (although right now you'd not be likely to agree).

1 - It appears you caught your WW just dipping her toes into the "Infidelity Cess Pool" (Most BHs wise up when they find their cheating spouses swimming and diving in unabashedly). I was also so fortunate.

2 - You have found this SITE!!!

3 - You have attracted the attention of ML and MB and others, who are THE BEST at explaining, and coaching the tenets of the MB practices to folks in your situation.

Okay, now you are to leverage the LUCK with INTELLIGENT ACTION. Listen to the folks here. When they say "keylogger" you answer, "Yep". When they advise GPS, or spyware, do it! If they ever have to suggest opening the bag of whirlwinds called "nuclear exposure", believe and follow their counsel.

This will get better, amigo.

Stop this. You're hurting your cause. You should be her Prince Charming right now.

Does your wife have a problem "communicating" with the OM? Did you and your wife have a problem "communicating" when you were madly in love before you got married? The answer to both is probably NO. Your wife is falling in love with the OM and she Is having no "communication" problems, is she? And you probably had no "communication" problems when you were in love.

Even the best "communicators" end up divorced, but people who are IN LOVE don't get divorced. That is why you need to use MB, because it restores the romantic love in your marriage. Love languages with it's "love tank" (gee, wonder where he got that idea? ) has no such plan.

DG, the best way to stop digging yourself into a hole is to put down the shovel.

What is nice about counselors is that they usually SIDE WITH THE WAYWARD against the BS. For example, many support opposite sex friendships and believe spouses should have their own friends. REGARDLESS of how the other spouse feels about it. We have to clean up the bad advice given by counselors on this forum every week.

So what is your plan if the counselor supports her "friendship" with this man? OR worse yet, advocates a "trial separation" so she can get some "space?" Because that is very typical. What will you do if the counselor sides with your W, the OM and the OMW?

Traditional counselors do not understand infidelity and have no idea how to save marriages. So when they endorse bad practices it is even more difficult to save a marriage.

I know...but this shovel has been knocking upside the head for years. All the while me beating myself up over how horrible a person I must be.

When we had Dday....she actually accused me of being so callous that when she told me she needed a break from the kids, sometimes....I responded "you don't need a break." I can't recall ever saying something like that....and it is so counter to what I am at my core...I just can't believe how much she must hate me to make something like that up. The closest I can come to any kind of conversation like this is...we've had this running back-and-forth...because she keeps getting all stressed out over dealing with the kids in the evening. She goes to work early, and picks the kids up at daycare. I drop the kids off, and work later. She keeps going on about how horrible the kids are; and I've been trying to get her to see...they are KIDS......and I have the same issues in the morning (except that I have a deadline ...work...to get them inline, fed, dressed, out the door..and too school...in such time as I can get to work on time.) Many a day, I've been late for work..due to the kids. So...I'm merely trying to point out....she's not the only one dealing with them. Admittedly....I'm not making any love points for that argument. But ....how does she get to "you don't need a break"...in nasty tone? I mean...before she started working....I put our oldest in daycare, two days a week...even though we couldn't afford it....just to take the load off of her. And...I DIDN'T SUPPORT HER???

These are the kinds of things (when she DOES tell me anything) that I have to counter. I don't remember the episodes she has so firmly engrained in her head....but have to defend myself. <=== what to look forward to at the counselor. So...I KNOW I need to just hear her out (if she even opens up to the counselor). Do I even respond??

I'm NOT leaving the house. IF that is what is suggested....that'll be our last session. After that..the only thing I can say is we CAN'T afford to separate. WE have two children who are desperate for us to be a couple...we NEED to try for their sake. My poor youngest tried so hard to get us to hug this morning. They see it! Just two years ago, I wouldn't ever dream of not giving my wife a hug when I got home, or left. Both kids would immediately jump up..."Group Hug...Group Hug!!"...and come running over to join. They haven't seen that in nearly two years.

Besides...after I found out about the emails..but before Dday.....I approached my wife about us needing to work on our marriage. She responded that she thought we needed a little space (she wanted a space of her own.) I asked her if she meant separation....to which she said "I don't think that is possible." She wanted to setup the spare bedroom as her own bedroom. I told her...i don't see that as a step forward. I've not slept in our bedroom for two years.....why on Earth would you need your own bedroom....you HAVE ours. She said she just needed a place of her own (I have my mancave)...she wanted a room. I told her I would be fine creating an office for her, in that room. She wasn't happy with that. I also told her...I've been soooo busy over the past year..I can't IMAGINE she didn't have enough space, during that time. And nothing positive happened from it. We needed to spend MORE time together.

A wise man once said, "Anger is a choice."

You will blow up when...you choose.
You will lash out at your wife when...you choose.
You will blow your hard work to smithereens when...you choose.

Conversely,

You will show your willingness to meet your wife's EN's when...you choose.
You will avoid all lovebusters when...you choose.
You will stick with a workable plan when...you choose.

I'm beginning to see a pattern.

Only on days ending in "y".

STOP countering this kind of stuff. What has happened is that she is sinking deep into an emotional affair and she is telling herself and the OM this kind of stuff in order to justify her affair. You can't reason with her because she is in a FOG. The solution is to STOP trying to defend yourself and just say, I have not been as supportive as I could have been, but I intend to change that now. Leave it at that!

In the meantime, I would get chill out and sneak some spyware on her phone. [eblaster is good becuaes it has a GPS in it] It will record her text messages. You cant listen to her calls, but you could listen to calls if she uses a landline. Does she ever use the landline?


This will be a disaster because a) the counselor does not understand the fog, and b) listening to your wife bash you for an hour will infuriate you and do nothing to help your marriage. This is why responsible counselors do not counsel couples in conflict together.

I wish you the best.

Let me translate for you, as a wife who has had somewhat the same conversations:

Wife: I'm struggling. I need help.

Husband: What is wrong with you? I can do this with my hands tied behind my back. I'm a better person than you.

Wife: I'm struggling. I need help, and a soft place to fall.

Husband: I don't want to hear about your problems. I'm superman. You suck, and you're also stupid.

I'm sure you are probably right in how it was perceived. It wasn't the way it was intended. And here is MY translation of what I was hearing:

Her: Kids keep driving me crazy...I'm so stressed....you have to do more!
Me: Well...I work 5-10 more hours/week than you, help out with them every weekend. Have them in the morning just as long as you have them (by yourself) in the evening......REALLY?
Her: Well...my evenings are so much worse than your mornings...so ....do more!
Me: {sigh}

Isn't communication grand??!!

So...what was her translation of my putting our oldest into a daycare, to help her out (thereby taking on more financial stress, myself)?

DG,

I've been there, done that and can tell you that as long as there is a third-party in your marriage, all the communication skills in the world won't help you. It's a waste of time and you'll drive yourself nuts wondering why she won't listen to reason.

End the affair and THEN you can really start on what got you guys here to begin with. Until then, most of your efforts will be for nothing as you'll be constantly compared to OM and you'll never measure up.

Did you get the keylogger for the computer and the spyware for the cell phone?

Some cellphone spyware companies support voice recording to certain numbers on certain phones (Blackberry in particular).

DG, CWMI is right. You are expressing a disrespectful judgment toward your wife. And you are probably completely missing it.

Don't try to point out stuff to your wife. That won't help her feel better. It's an attempt to educate her, and it's a disrespectful judgment.

Don't try to argue that you have been supporting your wife. Again, that's arguing with her feelings. It's a disrespectful judgment.

Listen, empathize, agree with your wife's feelings, offer to help, and seek to become a part of the solution to her problems. Even if she blames you for them, even if she blames you unjustly. Involve yourself emotionally in the problems she is bringing to you, without passing judgment on whether they should be problems or not.

It doesn't matter because no matter what you say, you'll be wrong in her eyes.

You can tell her the sky is blue and she'll swear up and down that it's green and that you're the worst husband ever, the worst father in history and are the cause for all of the world's problems--including global warming.

Save your breath and try not to get dragged into these arguments. Consider her as you would a toddler having a tantrum and you'll do a little better.

Your job is to get OM out of the picture. Get the evidence.