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RisingFromAshes #2564982 11/17/11 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
I wouldn't have done it without his agreement, but since it could be considered a LB I will not bring it up to him. I think I am LB'ing enough with demanding that he post on the forums and the other things that I have told him I need him to do. We have discussed it and I told him that I know that me requiring that to stay in the M is a LB, I know he doesn't like it and I am requiring it anyway. It's calculated on my part, a gamble that I am taking. I am hoping that whatever love he loses for me by doing this I can regain. I think it's worth the risk because to continue on as we have would almost certainly result in the end of our M.

It was a gamble. I can't harsh on you too much, as I had my wife come and post as well. She still occasionally reads, but for the most part the forum just makes her miserable, because it is just a reminder of her transgression that either of us are here.

Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
That would be the list I would give him of things that I required if I was to go into a Plan B, and I am giving him the chance do it now and hopefully avoid the Plan B situation. With two FWS's I think that Plan B would be more than usually stressful, especially since this is a non-A situation.

I tend to agree that since there is not an active A, and that since you two are really working on getting recovery really started here, that Plan B would be a shortcut to Plan D. Working out EN's and LB's are the marathon, RFA. Killing A's is the part you want to sprint.

Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
I am also doing everything I can to regain that lost love. I cant say it's Plan A exactly because I do have a requirement...him posting here...but I am doing everything I can to meet his needs in a huge way and expecting nothing else from him but that daily post. I know we will get to the needs meeting and stuff down the road but posting is the habit we are working on now and I want that one firmly formed before I try to move on to anything else.

I personally advocate regular review of the LBQ and ENQ. Early on, monthly or weekly, and then every 3 months or so, then every 6 and so on as you each learn to meet each others needs and avoid Love Busters. This can be done the same day you each sit down and schedule your UA time.

Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
So far to compensate I have done what he called "the best SF anybody ever had", all planned and instigated by me even though I am usually pretty shy about that kind of thing. He complained about doing the same old thing so we POJA'ed 5 or 6 new things and did them all yesterday, he seemed pleased.

I had a reply here.... and then I remembered a very key term here; you PoJA'd these new things. I certainly hope that you were honestly enthusiastic!

In fact, running a little bit of PoJA experiment in the SF department can be very fulfilling. Just remember, part of that PoJA has to be that any SF activity that you don't enjoy must end so resentment isn't created.

Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
I am making a double layer chocolate cake with gumpaste autumn leaves, branches and a cute pumpkin for his potluck church thing tomorrow, updated my homeschool records, and made him a list of things he has done lately that I find admirable or have deposited love units (gonna do that one daily for him).

Seems like a good way to fill his need for admiration. Admiration can also be expressed when you flirt with your husband, and it can also fulfill affection.

Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
I am seeking every opportunity to show him physical affection, and I am planning on writing him daily love notes in the mornings and following that up with thoughtful and provacative texts throughtout the day.

Good! SF doesn't start in the bedroom. At least, SF with a capital "F."

Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
...if I can get him away from the new COD_MW3 game. If not then I will find some other need meeting thing to do.

Boys and our toys... sigh. I get a little stranged out on this. Not as big of a gamer as I used to be (having a wife that actually pays attention to me now helps!)... but W likes to watch some of the more cinematic ones. I have a hard time believing it... until she gets mad that I quit "just when the story was getting good."

Anyway... UA > COD MW3.



Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
Anyways thanks for catching that DJ for me! And really if there is anything anyone can think of that might help me out some please let me know!

There is!

Now, I don't like to cross threads and all, but he mentioned struggling to meet your need for conversation.

So, I offer the same article to you that I offered to him;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=4&sublink=32&subsublink=302


Hopefully going over that article will help you both develop a conversational style that is mutually enjoyable!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2565378 11/17/11 11:16 PM
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I personally advocate regular review of the LBQ and ENQ. Early on, monthly or weekly, and then every 3 months or so, then every 6 and so on as you each learn to meet each others needs and avoid Love Busters. This can be done the same day you each sit down and schedule your UA time

He only agrees to the LBQ and ENQ when we are really strugging, and he does not schedule UA. I have asked but he rarely agrees to anything routine or preplanned, and if he does he rarely follows through on it.

Quote
I certainly hope that you were honestly enthusiastic!

No probem doing it, but planning it makes me nervous. He has been dishonest many times in the past about what he does and does not like when it comes to our SF. I worry less about it when he picks (why would he pick something he doesnt like?), but then again he says he doesnt like picking so really doesnt leave me many options for need fulfillment there.

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Admiration can also be expressed when you flirt with your husband, and it can also fulfill affection.

I need to do some searching online for tips on that, never been much of a flirter. Never really flirted much with DH. I have always been the girl guys viewed as a buddy and never learned the art I guess. Our flirting was me calling him a loser and him pulling my hair. On the bright side we still like to play wrestle, he thinks its fun and it usually leads to SF, so I guess it's not all bad.

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Anyway... UA > COD MW3

Normally I enjoy playing with him. It just seem to happen a LOT. I would like to see UA, kids, Domestic Support and THEN COD. What I usually see is COD and then everything else gets where it fits in after that. It really takes up a lot of time.

As for the article on conversation, we do pretty well at most of it.

The only problem I have is that when it comes to us and our M, it doesnt matter how much I investigate, he does not inform. I get lots of answers like he doesnt know, he has no thoughts or preferences, he isnt good at that sort of thing, etc. He is also often dishonest on the answers he does give (he lied on our most recent ENQ for instance). I am flying blind and really dont know how we are doing as a couple. EVER. It's frustrating and frightening.

He also tells me that I am disrespectful to his opinions, but cannot provide me with the specific actions that I engage in that causes him to feel disrespected. I dont know if it's my wording, my facial expressions, my tone...or the simple fact that I sometimes dont agree with him. Need to come up with something I can do to work on that for him.








Last edited by RisingFromAshes; 11/17/11 11:19 PM.

We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2565399 11/18/11 01:43 AM
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It sounds like both of you have some issues with being vulnerable with each other; you when it comes to O&H regarding SF, and him with O&H about himself or his feelings.

That is likely due to a history of Love Busting in those situations. To be able to have intimate conversations, you have to trust that your partner will not AO or DJ you.

I can't remember, but I think it was you to whom I suggested looking at intimacy building?

Well, intimacy is about a whole lot more than the bedroom - it is about having vulnerability with your spouse.

In that regard, the BEST approach is to focus on meeting EN's, and avoiding LB's - most specifically AO and DJ behaviors.

He's here, and he seems to be listening, so have some patience, and hold down the fort, ok?

Remember, you can only control you!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2565410 11/18/11 07:24 AM
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UA time is so important. For my H and me, skipping UA time or not meeting our 15+ hours always makes us feel bad.

A suggestion for POJA. Start with something simple that you pretty much already agree on. Start your discussion with "How would you feel if ..." Then listen for the answer.

It sounds as if there have always been DJs in your relationship. Calling your H a loser sure isn't much of a compliment. One of the things the Harley's said on a recent radio show was that much humor is based on DJs, focuses on faults that men and women have. In our M, we eliminated that kind of humor unless we say it about ourselves. We do joke about the inanimate objects and the dog though. The dog doesn't care if we DJ him.

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2565553 11/18/11 05:07 PM
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It sounds like both of you have some issues with being vulnerable with each other; you when it comes to O&H regarding SF, and him with O&H about himself or his feelings.

He reacted very positively to me planning SF, so I am much more comfortable with the thought now than I was before. I think it was enjoyable for us and telling him what I want is not as intimidating now.

As for him I just need to be patient and prove to him that it safe or him to be open to me about his feelings. Since he cant tell me exactly what I am doing that he feels is disrespectful we may depend on the notebook communication for awhile until we get that figured out.

Quote
UA time is so important. For my H and me, skipping UA time or not meeting our 15+ hours always makes us feel bad.

A suggestion for POJA. Start with something simple that you pretty much already agree on. Start your discussion with "How would you feel if ..." Then listen for the answer.

Ok I will start with that and hopefully be able to work up to POJA on UA time. I think ti is going to take a lot to get him to be really enthusiastic about doing UA before game time.

Quote
It sounds as if there have always been DJs in your relationship. Calling your H a loser sure isn't much of a compliment. One of the things the Harley's said on a recent radio show was that much humor is based on DJs, focuses on faults that men and women have. In our M, we eliminated that kind of humor unless we say it about ourselves. We do joke about the inanimate objects and the dog though. The dog doesn't care if we DJ him

Never really thought of it like that, we both come from families where that kind of teasing is common so it seems normal enough to us I guess. I dont think either of us has ever been hurt by or taken it seriously. I will talk to him about it, but I dont know what he will say, we enjoy teasing and playing around together and do it often. I do think we would enjoy some more sensual flirting, but I have doubts that he would want it to totally replace our current dynamic.





We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2567864 11/23/11 11:00 PM
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Happy Thanksgiving to all of you! This place is definately something that I am thankful for, and I hope everyone has a great day.

Wanted to post a quick update that things are going pretty well here. We have seen some improvements here that I am very happy about. Mainly in the the way things have been going with the kids, especially DS. We were able to identify and work on some things that H was doing that were absolutely driving me NUTS and come to an agreement for him to try and do things a little differently for a bit and see how he feels about it. So far I think things are going very well, and DS seems so much happier! It was a little bit of a rocky start, even though we mostly agree on the kids, and it was the thing I thought we would have the easiest POJA on. It worked much better when I just wrote down what my goals were, asked him if he would write down his, then we compared. It didnt take us long after that to come to a solution. I think it would be best for us to keep that up, at least for now, when we try POJA on an issue that is any more complicated than picking what we are having for dinner. Well, anything that we may feel emotional about anyway.

Even with a bit of a bumpy start, it still met my need for Conversation, because he did end up telling me quite a bit about his thoughts and feelings about the kids and the things that he thinks it is important for them to learn. He was also willing to POJA with me, and work on an issue that had really been bothering me. It was a happy day here for me.

I think we have also started to work out an issue we were having about Recreation, so hopefully he will be willing to sit down and POJA that with me soon.

UA time is still not what I would like, but I am using that time to clean or try to do some other thing to meet his needs. I have also let him know that I am hurt by the lack of time. Hoping it will improve soon. I used that time last night to make him a little black bag filled with pieces of paper that have suggestions on it for SF. Now when he wants something new or different, he can get ideas from me without putting me on the spot to pick something. If he doesnt like the one he picked he can throw it away and pick again. He seemed happy, and I am way more enthusiastic about it this way.

Then today I made him a list of things that he can do that I find admirable, broken down into the specific need that they meet. I am still keeping him a list going in my notebook of the things he did that day that I liked, but hopefully this will give him a little more guidance on what really makes me feel proudest of him. He has complained about not getting enough admiration, so I wanted to make it as easy as possible for him to know what he can do it get the most of it from me. I want to be able to give him admiration that is really genuine and heartfelt, and not just pick some fluff stuff to put on a list.

Anyways, it's been mostly nice the last few days. And thanks to everyone who has been helping us. We are very thankful to you all this year, and hope you have a great Thanksgiving.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2568042 11/24/11 11:33 PM
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I know my H is posting about all the thanksgiving and family drama, and i am totally at a loss on what to do.

My mom is paying for everything right now, food bills etc. She bought the turkey and cooked it. Idk how to do it since we have always done holidays at my grandmas, and didn't go this year because H didnt want to. After my H got on webcam and his mom annouced to the entire kitchen that my mom wqs cooking her turkey wrong, my mom let my little brother pose for a picture of him acting like he was cutting the turkey to send to my dad who is deployed. This left a scratch in the top of the turkey about half an inch long. I then asked H to come actually carve it, he refused and told me it was tainted and we were trying to replace him as the man of his own house and no one respects him.

I have been crying all day, idk what to do. I know he is upset but mom bought the food and she is paying for all our stuff. I am afraid that telling her she was wrong to do this with food she paid for in a house she is paying the rent on will cause her to leave and we will have no food for our kids and no place to live. He just keeps telling me we disrespected him and i dont know what to do about it.

He has always complained about my family, from the way they raise their kids to the way they spend money and he acts really angry and there is nothing i can do to control those things. I cant do anything about it, but i hear about it all several times a week. I mean really if i could fix those things and make everyone do things exactly the way he says they should then i would, but what does he want me to DO about it? I feel really hurt by the way he always puts my family down, and i have told him that so many times and then he just tells me i am biased and blind and i need to open my eyes to their faults and how they are all out to disrespect him.

Sorry for typos i am posting from my phone and i cant stop crying today.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2568055 11/25/11 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
I know my H is posting about all the thanksgiving and family drama, and i am totally at a loss on what to do.

My mom is paying for everything right now, food bills etc. She bought the turkey and cooked it. Idk how to do it since we have always done holidays at my grandmas, and didn't go this year because H didnt want to. After my H got on webcam and his mom annouced to the entire kitchen that my mom wqs cooking her turkey wrong, my mom let my little brother pose for a picture of him acting like he was cutting the turkey to send to my dad who is deployed. This left a scratch in the top of the turkey about half an inch long. I then asked H to come actually carve it, he refused and told me it was tainted and we were trying to replace him as the man of his own house and no one respects him.

I have been crying all day, idk what to do. I know he is upset but mom bought the food and she is paying for all our stuff. I am afraid that telling her she was wrong to do this with food she paid for in a house she is paying the rent on will cause her to leave and we will have no food for our kids and no place to live. He just keeps telling me we disrespected him and i dont know what to do about it.

He has always complained about my family, from the way they raise their kids to the way they spend money and he acts really angry and there is nothing i can do to control those things. I cant do anything about it, but i hear about it all several times a week. I mean really if i could fix those things and make everyone do things exactly the way he says they should then i would, but what does he want me to DO about it? I feel really hurt by the way he always puts my family down, and i have told him that so many times and then he just tells me i am biased and blind and i need to open my eyes to their faults and how they are all out to disrespect him.

Sorry for typos i am posting from my phone and i cant stop crying today.

You guys need to talk. It is really important for him to step up to the plate right now. Instead of arguing with him try something like this:

"Honey, I know this was important for you, I want to understand better, so can you please explain to me how we can handle our difficult situation because I feel trapped between a rock and a hard place with my family helping us right now."

There was an important EN hidden in there that he didn't get fulfilled tonight and you need to find out what it was.

He may feel that he's not providing for the family the way he wants to right now. He will need affirmation and admiration I think.

CV




Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
celticvoyager #2568075 11/25/11 07:40 AM
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Rising,

Was there much drinking involved on Thanksgiving? Much of what you have written seems like irrational behavior to me.

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2568081 11/25/11 08:58 AM
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No AM, there is no drinking allowed in our house, my H is a recovering alcoholic and drug addict, we dont even keep wine to cook with, nothing alcoholic comes in the door.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2568124 11/25/11 12:50 PM
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Rising,

I am glad to hear you have an alcohol free home. So, something else was going on. Did you and your H POJA your family coming to stay with you? Did you know your H's hopes for Thanksgiving and how he had it pictured in his head? Did you know about your H's vision about carving the turkey with his own family in his own home? It sounds as if your H has not been expressing his feelings and hopes for the future (It is really hard to get to that openness after a military separation and even harder after all the stuff that was happening when your H was in the military).

I suggested on your H's thread that you two look at the chapter about families in the "Lovebuster" book.

I am sorry the holiday was so unpleasent.

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2626223 05/16/12 04:38 PM
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I haven't come around here in ages, but curiosity finally got the best of me and I had to come check on everyone's stories. It's good to see that most of those that are familiar to me are doing well in recovery.

I am still with my H, and we are approaching the 2 year anti-versary of our last dday. He has a new job, we bought a cute little fixer upper house, we homeschool. Life is pretty normal. MB prinicipals are always there in our minds, but we have given up following it exactly all the time. We give ourselves room for human failings. Crankiness happens and being busy, so sometimes LBs happen or needs don't get met for a bit. But we come through it, and forgive each other. It feels more real and intimate to us that way, where we can be our real selves instead of perfect all the time. So its mostly MB, we are just more relaxed about it now.

I am not in love with him, but I am much closer than I was the last time I posted. Time does heal, and staying away from the boards and the triggers helps too.

I am sending prayers for everyone's recovery journey.



We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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