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During Sunday nights debacle, this exchange sort of had me reeling:
WW: I hate you! You disgust me! I will never love you again! Admit it, you hate me too! All of your changes are phnoy!
Me: No, WW, I still love you. My intentions are to be the best father and husband I can be.
Why doe she think I hate her? Is she TRYINGto get me to hate her with all of this crap she throws at me? Its not working. maybe she is slowly tiring since the crap is coming less often?
WWs are fun...
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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indiegirl, On the eggshells thing, it is hard. I do not do this all the time, but when she is in a bad mood I do. i will have to work on that. Wow, I never realized the seperate beds thing is feeding this wayward fantasy. And she won't allow to to tuck her in or touch her (positive thinking: yet!). Like I wrote earlier today, everyone is telling me just go sleep in our bed, so why not? I'll try it and let you know what happens  She has touched me a few times the last week for the first time since early August: rubbed her hand up and down my back during a party, rubbed my shoulder during a kid function at school when we were sitting close together, on the date day we went to a store to clothes shop and were in the dressing room together trying on clothes and checking to see what fits in our underwear, laughing, etc. (so lots of good sexual tension that day!). I go out of my way to get "casual' touching and am a predator about it (it is one of my love languages) without her realizing it, but she seems receptive until a new shutdown and AO happens and I am the hated ruiner of her life again. Now she wants nothing to do with me after sunday night's tiff. But last night was really calm, she just gave me the cold shoulder all night. It is really hard. I walked over the shells without leaving a trace before everyone on here made me get tougher. You need to show extreme confidence. Dont chuckle at her anger but let it wash over you Like you have such faith in her love that you arent fooled by it. It does tend to make them even angrier and they storm off. Then you cn chuckle. Its a job and a half alright.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Thanks indiegirl for the advice. I guess the US posters are all asleep! I have chuckled a couple of times when she has criticized me with an AO because it was so transparent. I will have to avoid that, it has to be a LB I guess and disrepctful.
I just listened to some radio clips where the Harley's advise a guy to do plan A for up to 2 years, as his wife is still in fog land. That is scary to me that it could take this long. My marriage counselor thinks she is not going anywhere, and wants ME to make the decision to leave, but that my plan A is slowly working and she is slowly tiring. I don't know, maybe so, I am probably too close to see things clearly. I guess a month ago we never would have spent the day together, but we did do that last week.
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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I think I will try and schedule an appointment with Steve Harley. Is this useful at this stage of my situation?
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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During Sunday nights debacle, this exchange sort of had me reeling:
WW: I hate you! You disgust me! I will never love you again! Admit it, you hate me too! All of your changes are phnoy!
Me: No, WW, I still love you. My intentions are to be the best father and husband I can be.
Why doe she think I hate her? Is she TRYINGto get me to hate her with all of this crap she throws at me? Its not working. maybe she is slowly tiring since the crap is coming less often?
WWs are fun... WW is still living in the land of denial. Still justifying her affair. Still believing things would be different only if the OM did not die. WW is keeping her mind closed to your changes to maintain her fantasy world. Longer plan A the better the odds are that you will get through to WW. Though some WW's are of the WAW type and she will never come back. Maybe being from two very different cultures is something she ignored but haunts her now.
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Thanks TheRoad for your post. The two cultures thing was never a devisive issue earlier in our marriage and even one of the things we always liked and that she appreciated, but you are right, not now. She criticizes it. I speak her native language well, but not like a native and never at home, so she complains about this now too and that it makes it hard for us to communicate (her English is almost native). The EA was done almost all by e-mail/messaging and the OM was an old college friend so from her culture, friend group, etc. It was a factor I guess she used to justify the A.
About denial, she did tell me a couple of weeks ago about the affair that alot of it was in her mind, and in her imagination. I think she is in love with being "in love", and felt this flash of being in love with the OM and does not think it can be rekindled between us. She still claims it is not about the A, but me/us not being meant for each other.
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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I just overheard a call to a friend of ours in the US who I have not spoken to in years. She told her she wants a divorce. This person asked why? He's going out on you or something? She said no, he has actually really changed, stays home, into kids, etc. Then this person asked why? WW says she just does. The friend then asked, do you have a lover? She said no, but she wants one, but is not willing to do that living with me (I night have misheard the last part but I think that is what was said).
Ouch, that kills me. How do I take this? Should I contact this friend and try to solicit support? I am not sure if this person will support and anyway, it may give away that I was eavesdropping.
Ideas? Suggestions?
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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I went ahead and scheduled a session with Steve tomorrow to get help on the plan.
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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I speak her native language well, but not like a native and never at home, so she complains about this now too and that it makes it hard for us to communicate (her English is almost native). I think if my wife spoke another language natively, I would try to immerse myself in it and speak it almost all the time in order to reach her emotionally. That has to be a deep need. I want want to strive for 100% bilingualism in our family.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Our kids speak both and she/we has been very stict with me speaking only English and her the native language in the home so the kids are fully ni-lingual. We have lived in a number of countries including the US, and English has just become the normal language we communicate in. I could go full tilt in her native language, but she gets mad because of the kid thing.
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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I'm really confused. She doesn't want you to speak her native language to her? She's complaining about you not speaking the native language at home, but she doesn't want you to speak it at home?
Anyway, regardless of my confusion, my point is that I think this is a complaint you can and should address.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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And I agree. I think this guy was able to meet her needs through language and I am not able to do that as well. Her English is native level too though, but I get your point all too well having read poetry and literature in her native language and not getting it as well as she does.
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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She wants me to speak only English at home for the kids. But to her she is ok if I speak her native language if kids not around. But her English is much better than my command of her native language although I have general fluency (I work fully in this language).
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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I went ahead and scheduled a session with Steve tomorrow to get help on the plan. Good job! BEFORE your session with Steve, email him a brief summary of your situation with a timeline so you don't have to waste precious (expensive) phone time. That way he already has an idea about what you need to hear and what plan will work.
Dday- Feb 1998
Recovered!!
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I just overheard a call to a friend of ours in the US who I have not spoken to in years. She told her she wants a divorce. This person asked why? He's going out on you or something? She said no, he has actually really changed, stays home, into kids, etc. Then this person asked why? WW says she just does. The friend then asked, do you have a lover? She said no, but she wants one, but is not willing to do that living with me (I night have misheard the last part but I think that is what was said). I'm going to be blunt - from her comments above, it's apparent your WW has decided at this point that she wants to be with anyone *but* you. Trying to "appease" her is likely going to put you into the dreaded "friend" territory. Standing up for yourself is going to likely have her get even more annoyed because she'll lose that feeling that she is in control of the situation. As I suggested, she sounds very much like a "Walkaway wife", and my previous advice to you on the matter still stands. Set a timetable for Plan A and stick to it (yes, it's possible that a good Plan A could lead to your WW changing her mind about her relationship with you, but it's important that your Plan A makes you look like a desireable spouse, not just a good friend). And protect your finances. Make sure you take the lead, in either recovering your M, or recovering from it.
Last edited by ManInMotion; 11/15/11 08:30 PM.
ManInMotion
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(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
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ManInMotion,
Can you help me understand more your comment of looking like a desirable spouse versus a friend? What exactly should I do differently?
My focus in my plan A the last 6 weeks since the OM died has been to meet as many ENs as possible that she would let me. This has mainly been domestic support and loads and loads of family and kid time (SuperDad), with conversation thrown in if we can get past the A talks or her wanting to negotiate moving out (this is harder but there has been some progress and I deflect/avoid these 2 issues well). She would have run weeks ago if I had enabled her with any financial support and agreed to this 2 apartments idea she has, but the job she took once she decided to run off to the OM's city before he died (to live as a single mom with our two kids since OM was not leaving HIS wife) pays little and she does not have enough financial resources, or any really, to do this w/o my help. I am giving no help but she thinks I will eventually from her words. She was actually talking to this friend to see if she could help her find work, but from what I heard it is unrealistic (like a lot of her expectations and visions the last few months!).
Is the WD from the A a big part of these feelings?
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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I feel like I understand alot more of what is going on after the call with S.H. Even though it had the positive impact that it killed the A., the OM death seems to have made this way harder than usual, and made the OM a martyr and put WW into extreme fog-ville.
He recommended an approach I never would have thought of. I now understand how MB is plan-oriented!
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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What was Steve's suggestion for breaking the fog since OM is dead?
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Blackhawk,
So glad you are understanding the benefit of having MB, it gives you hope and it is logical and doable.........good luck
BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
Working on Recovery
Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
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jessitaylor,
Thanks for your good luck wishes. And yes, those are exactly my thoughts, logical and doable.
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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