Also, all the home study courses now include the online seminar! This is a NEW addition! I believe MB no longer does the get aways. I can 100% recommend the Family Life Weekend to Remember. Extremely effective supplement to your MB program and would certainly have a HUGE impact on a wayward. It changed our life and available througout the US. Google it. I wouldn't hesitate to attend with a wayward, or in the beginning of recovery or just as a refresher in good marriages. Of course MB must be implemented asap, but this is a great way to recommit!

We signed up for the Online Seminar Accountability Program in June. It uses same materials as the home study course, but we were assigned a coach who keeps us on track with the lessons and answers any questions that arise. Also we can post questions on the private forum.

The seminar that you can see online whether you sign up for the accountability program or the home study courses is taken from the "old" weekend seminars. Better, though, because you don't have to fly there or get a hotel. And you can watch them over and over in the privacy of your home.

The courses, taken either way, are the absolute best marriage program out there, hands down, in our opinion. It's based on logic and research. If followed, it really can lead to a great marriage. It's all solid, no soft squishy stuff like we've seen in other books and programs. Better than any marriage counselor we've ever had the misfortune to hire.

Just a rant.....as the Holiday Season begins.....is it normal ( I am hoping ) to see everything as the first since D Day? My logical mind tells me, first Thanksgiving since DDay, first one without OM in her phone and on her mind.... The bad side says, this could be the last one.....I hope not.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

What you're experiencing is perfectly normal. Horrible, disturbing, but normal. If your marriage continues on a path to recovery, next year should be better, from what I read.

This was our first year since...then...too. I've had all those thoughts, too.

Thanks 51,

I was afraid someone would say that......

"Feeling normal now feels so abnormal..!!!!"

Help in findind "Just Compensation" information. I need to touch up on these concepts before I proceed. The list of my EP didn't go over well, and I'm sure this will not either. But I want to stay on plan.

I searched under SAA in the Q&A but didn't find anything. If you have the link, I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

Texas, here's a link about Just Compensation entitled Can't We Just Forgive & Forget.

Your W may not be enthusiastic about the EPs right now, but she still must abide by them. My H wasn't real thrilled at first either, but it was the only way I would agree to stay. EPs help make a marriage safe. He's become used to them as they become more of a habit.

Recovery takes two to five years, Dr. Harley advises. We're a year out from D-Day (thank GOD the first year is past us; it was horrible in many ways.) Now my H is so far out of the fog and into our marriage that he likes MB the most out of any other marriage book/program we have seen. As you can see from my signature line, we signed up for the Online Course, which has been very helpful in getting us on track to a great marriage.

In time, if your W agrees to use the program, she will find that she is happier, too. Who wouldn't be, when one's most important emotional needs are being met and love busters are eliminated. It goes both ways, of course. You should be able to look back in a couple of years and see that your marriage is better than it was pre-A.

EPs are to be provided by your wife, to you for approval, at which point you add anything you may feel is appropriate. They are NOT subject to PoJA.

The only exception may be making them stronger. EPs provided here sum it up pretty well.

For myself, I defined subjects of conversation which were a no-go, as they were superficial IC.

Tex, hope you don't mind me tj-ing your thread... I wanted to answer your question here rather than on sh's.

"CV,

Tell me again why you are not behind a pulpit? Your words are divinely delivered and it's timing is more than coincidence."

First of all, thanks. It's a loooong complicated story. The short and skinny is that my denom has ultra strict requirements for ordination. I am supposed to have a bachelor's and my MDiv on order to be ordained. I *may* get an exception, but it is at our regional level's discretion. Our original licensing committee was ok with me not having a bachelor's, so I tested out and got into a master's program. I finished one masters in 09, and am 6 classes away from my MDiv (3 classes are electives, one class is only requiring me to write a paper, so I only have 2 core classes to go).

The new committee isn't thrilled with this idea (me not having a bachelor's)even though I preach fairly regularly in out denominational churches in our area and am well received by all the churches I preach at.

So... I am in limbo regarding our book of church order. Some of the pastor's want to make the exception, other's do not for fear of setting a precedent. I am a test case for them...

The wheels turn slowly for us...

Ah well... We are looking at other possibilities... Sister denominations and such.

Thanks for letting me jack your thread.

CV

CV,

You are welcome here any time. Good luck with your denom. I know and understand how the politics inside the churches can be a hurdle. I like to ask, Did Paul, Peter, James, John have a degree or did they have the HS? Only one is needed to spread "the word".

BTW.... Low spot here in recovery. I've started a thread on Sexual Aversion for so e advice. Check it out if you have a minute.

I checked it and posted some thoughts. As for the future... I'm looking at other denoms (or non-denoms)...

Your questions got me thinking. I have the day off tomorrow and want to post some more. May take some time though. Let me ask.. Is W still a professing believer after all this?

cv

Yesterday was another tough day. We went to our councilor. My WW ( not going to give a F until she comes out of fog and starts working program ) went in thinking she would convence MC that my EP were out of line. My WW does like to be told or feel someone else is "controlling" her. She was going to make the argument that she should still be able to have "her" privacy.

That didn't work. Our MC is very MB friendly. She thinks we should work the program and ask my WW what was more important. It got heated, there was crying.... At one point WW would say things like "I just want to go back to the way it was before I made my mistake" ... To that I responded " how did that work out for us".

She was under the notion that we could go in for an hour a week, do nothing different at home and things would get better. I made a wise a55 remark... "that's like saying just bc you go to church one hour a week you are a strong Christian, it doesn't work that way. You have to read, study on your own, ask questions, join groups ect.... Church is just a part of that, but will not give you all you need". She knew this, bc we have discussed it in the past.

Needless to say, it was a rude awakening for her. She swears she will never join this forum, even tried to say I spend too much time on here. That I'm addictive to this forum.

So, I left early. MC wanted to discuss anger issues and wanted WW to open up more. MC told WW to give this a try, said what could it hurt. MC told her she had to let go of control, that she could not recover without a plan and that if she didn't have one to find one we could both agree to. So I am going today to find books on CD. WW hates to read. Says she will listen.

Here are my questions,
How many of the books are on CD or MP3 for download? Are there more video's I could download? Can the radio show's be a pod cast she could subscribe to or download?

Sorry for the length, but I am going to limit my time here to 15 min segments, and only when I am alone. No more posting when WW is around, it is a LB for her.

I hope this is a step forward out of the fog for her.

Maybe in time she will be more open to this forum and understand the purpose to save and rebuild marriages in trouble, a great plan that gives you a chance......
For now your plan is a good one, one day at a time, little by little she will get back to normal thinking and decision making...........
CD's are a good option, she at least is willing not all waywards are.........

CV,

Yes, WW still believes. She has let go of some ( the ones she wanted to let go of ) of the strict requirements of the CoC, but not to the belief of the effects.

ie) she will have a wine or cocktail, but believes them to be wrong and against what the bible teaches.

She and I know she was a victim of the enemy. Problem is, she knew that when she was in PA. She says she had huge amount of guilt, thinks she may go to he77 for this.

I have coucilled her and she know about grace and forgiveness. It is tough for her now I think bc of her fog. She still has feelings for OM and she see's that as a constant sin.

You know you will be led if that is your calling. The HS will find you, and find a place for you. It could be here, or it could be behind a pulpit. Trust and prayers will give you the discernment you need. God bless.

If you buy either the Home Study course or go with the Online Course, you will have access forever to the videos of the MB Weekend Seminar.

Each of the above options has a set of CDs. They very closely follow the books HNHN and LB. Very worthwhile purchase, because you can listen in the car, download to iPod, whatever.

You can listen to the radio shows one at a time via the radio archives at no cost. Radio Archive This is a really nice part of MB. If you want them as a download, there is a small fee. We bought the privilege of unlimited downloads for one month for $19.99 I think it was. You can purchase in larger segments as well.

We read the books together aloud at night, which really helped prod discussion of each topic.

bump so I can answer after dinner!

Tex,

Guilt can be good, but a morbid self introspection can cause despair. My advice to you (this worked with Grace) is to reemphasize grace to her over and over again. It is possible that a large part of her aversion may be due to guilt and self-loathing as a result of what she did.

One of the things I did with Grace in the months following Dday was that I read the Bible to her. We'd get up early together, or just go sit on the front porch and I would the Scriptures to her in a very personal way. For instance:


Rom 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation for (you Grace) who are in Christ Jesus. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. (3) For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, (4) in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled (FOR YOU Grace), who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

I would read it tenderly to her, with very little exposition (unless she asked) and just read passage after passage like that that for her. Heard a pastor once say that you get more flowers from a gentle rain than from a deluge.

Remind her of the Scriptures that speak to this in a gentle way.

1Co 6:15-20 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! (16) Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, "The two will become one flesh." (17) But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. (18) Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. (19) Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, (20) for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Let her know that she has been bought back with a price.

One of the biggest revelations a believer can have is that their sin is more an offense to God that it ever is to us, the one sinned against.

That's why David writes in Psalm 51:

Psa 51:4 Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.


Writing about his sin with Bathsheba. He had killed her Husband after sleeping with his wife, lied to cover it and yet he recognizes that the BIG sin is against God.

In seminary terms we say it is a theocentric view of God and man rather than an anthropocentric view. In broad evangelical terms, it is keeping your eyes on Christ and not man.

All sin is worthy of hell, but Christ is rich in mercy and grace and there is NO sin that is too great that Christ cannot overcome it. In fact, he already has.

I've rambled too long already and the threads aren't set up for long discourse so I'll stop here.

Anyway, I think you get the point...

CV

All,

Got a call from OM today,Voice Mail. He asked if I would call him.

I know... NC. But I did. He wanted to say he was sorry for everything. OM and OMW are working on their marriage. He came completely clean to her. It wasn't a long talk, but I felt better knowing he is not going to contact my WW.

Strangely, I feel relieved.

Vets.....

I don't think I should tell WW. Thoughts? Does this violate honesty agreement or is this more of a EP?

I don't want to trigger her with any feelings for him.

Not a vet but I don't think you should mention anything about his contacting you.