Great news, buddy! Glad to hear it!

Its something. My LB$ is extremely low and that commodity is what's keeping the marriage going.

She had her call with Steve. She sat and re-read a lot of the Love Busters book last night and we engaged in, what seemed to me, to be positive discussion this morning prior to her call.

After the call, we have not yet discussed. She just told me on the phone, "I am spinning a little bit."

So we will discuss tonight.

I have Steve myself tomorrow morning. I like how he gives advice. Actually "GIVES ADVICE." A therapist who "SAYS SOMETHING PRESCRIPTIVE." I filled up pages of notes. My experience with therapists is they sit there and listen, and listen and listen. Try to tell you what you want to hear... spoonfeed you in tiny tidbits and keep you coming back.

1 session with Steve = $225.

9 sessions of copays at $25 each with anyone else = $225.

Got more out of 1 session with Steve than 9 sessions elsewhere.

You got it stretch

"Faithful is he who is called, and shall also do it", seems the key is his advice.

Submitting to that authority, is something we can understand as strength, and when we do, we also are strong.

Nobody does it alone, nobody

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=9&sublink=177

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb.cfm/9/64

Hmmm...

She wasnt too thrilled after her call. She is pissed. I am so confused.

On another thread, I just offered (edited for consideration):

...the average "counselor" has one salient thought in mind when conducting
sessions: The viability of his business depends on getting the current client
happy enough with the service that she recommend it to others! Given that
dynamic, how likely would it be that a counselor would truthfully inform
a client that she was acting like a (cheater)? So, every and any impulse or
cockeyed imagining such a client would raise at a session would instead be
provided validation by the counselor, assuaging the client - "I'm not a
(cheater), the counsellor said I just had unfulfilled needs!"- and giving her
the warm-and-fuzzies which produce the necessary recommendations
to acquaintances.

Given the liklihood that "warm-and-fuzzies" were not what Steve provided, instead offering an objective third-party appraisal of what are demonstrably her immature and injurious feelings and actions, it would be highly likely that she would not welcome being told the unvarnished truth.

What will be critical is if she still, after the initial "shock" has faded, has the quality to accept Steve's counsel on its own merits, being able to separate her own resentment of receiving unpleasant information from the value of the information itself. A cancer patient does himself no good "resenting" the diagnosis from the doctor, and is much better advised to act on it rationally and promptly.

Well said.

She was shocked that he went into "lecture" mode. She said, "I did not ask for this! I told you to stop trying to convince me Stretch! My mind is made up. And now here is one more man just making his point and lecturing me."

That being said, I spoke to Steve for another 90mins today myself. My wife did do the next two surveys (EN and LBs) and we will have a session together soon. So... one little step at a time. She is not willing to enter Recovery. We are just putting a presentation down that suggest, there is a happiness that is possible. And its possible to get there with a plan. Just getting her to believe and want the possibility and try to research it.

She also said, "Everything they write makes sense. Everything he said makes sense. I cannot believe we need to learn this from professionals. Its just common sense. I already know all this."

You see... in my wife's mind, I think she sees herself as in pretty good shape. I am the emotionally stunted one that has to be taught all this stuff -- so obvious to her from the beginning of our M. And dragging dumb hubby along is just too hard.

But if she knows the MB principles so well... then why in her primary relationship is her husband's LB empty? Why are his ENs so unmet?

I want NO accolades for this, but I will say this - I knew this would happen: you WW will NOT be receptive to a strange man (or anyone else) to give her advice. I suspected that she agreed to talk to Steve on your dime only so she could dismiss him.

Stretch, she's mentally outta there.

GO TO PLAN B. Get her out of the house and GO TO PLAN B. She is NOT going to buy into Steve's plan right now. She is TOO WAYWARD.

I know you - you'll want to be a nice guy til the last second. This will do you NO FAVORS. Get her moved out and go to PLAN B NOW.

On the other hand, will she talk to him again? A few bucks for that vs lord knows how much for a divorce and two electric bills forever..

Keep talking for now, pull the plug anytime once you give it a chance.

Not this wife. She's had too long too start a new life, with Stretch underwriting it. He's given her a soft landing. To the detriment of his marriage.

Stretch, no one will ever be able to call you a bad guy.

But that's what has always bothered me about Stretch's wife...her "thing" was as some kind of groupie thing with a washed out Willie Nelson-type bar singer who didn't really want much to do with her.

It wasn't, as I understand it, a full-blown EA or PA with two active waywards like so many posters. I'd bet this OM would actually have to think for a minute as to just who Stretch's wife was.

Unless she found another OM?

Or is she just plain broken?

Or is Stretch just doing something (LB) really lousy and is completely clueless about it?

It just doesn't "fit" if that makes any sense. Of course, Stretch is probably saying the same thing.

Or is she just plain broken?

I have long posited that this lady's emotional disability was the spur behind her EA, not the other way around. Sadly, I don't know that this site has the wherewithal to be the primary vehicle to help Stretch, or her.

Yes, but we are three weeks from his self imposed January deadline. So shes got at least three weeks - right?

Couple of sessions to see if he is happy with the progress won't kill him. Plus I have been to regular counselling, and those people are useless. Whatever shes talked about so far has nothing to do with actually taking action to save the marriage.

I say keep on keeping on until at least January. If you want to evaluate at that point, I got nothing but respect if he calls it then.

Theres four kids here!

She is talking to him again. Joint session Monday. She did both EN and LB surveys. Took them seriously. She told her friends, "This 'Save your marriage guy' makes a lot of sense. I just don't know if my heart is in it."

@NW ... I am positive that I am guilty of LB's. I am not perfect. But indeed she is broken in some way.

@NG ... I don't know what kind of help she needs. She is rejecting relationship and intimacy right now. I have learned through this what my ENs are and what I want for a lifelong intimate, romantically loving relationship. I don't think my wife has figured out what makes her "feel good" and "feel bad". She just sees short term, in the moment "feel bad" and is into escaping and fantasy.

@Reynolds .... Jan for sure. If we stop with Steve I am tapped out of energy. LB too low. She wants to start D process in Jan. So be it.

@MB .... I will seek and expect Plan B type of separation during the process. No soft landing. No niceties, invites, the occasional roll in the hay, caring for each other as we process the mediation and D. I already told her, we shall meet in the driveway every Sunday afternoon. Its too hard on me. I am rejected. It hurts. I need to protect myself and move on. That includes withdrawing my heart through total, complete, dark separation.

My therapist told me today, "You are the suffering romantic."

Stretch, I look at the positive until it no longer exists. If she gets on board with MB I would be so thrilled for you!

But please, PLEASE go to Plan B when she moves out! Do NOT be her safe landing zone for her new life.

I agree with Bliss on that. Cut all ties, black B.

Stretch if you get to January and you quit, I promise brother you'll never hear a disrespectful word from me.

BTW if she can't make it work with you, it won't work with anyone else either. Thats her future.

Great things and great happiness await Stretch in his life. I dont know which path. But both have happiness written all over them.

Is SH aware of her moving plans?

I tend to agree with the "Plan B if she moves out" crowd, however, since you are working with SH, my belief is his plan for you take precedence.

It's my impression that she imagines a soft landing. I saw that she mentioned to someone, "Hopefully Stretch will move with us into the smaller house as we downsize...."

What?? I would not help the one who rejected me and broke up our family into a new house. Time to be a big girl and take care of that herself.

I gotta believe like NG that there is something sad and broken. This is the marriage I have and I intend to do my best to keep it.

Does Steve understand the timeline? Yes, I am certain we discussed it. She wants to call it quits in Janaury. Meaning, Divorce proceedings begin. I guess... not really sure what she imagines. But it has been mentioned here often that she likely foresees me doing a lot of the work and helping her out through it all. Making a soft landing.

She wants to call it quits in Janaury...Divorce proceedings

Said the Zen Master: "We'll see!"

Seriously, Stretch, what would she be waiting for? One last New Year's Eve bash? Do you jointly have financial instruments that mature then? Waiting to celebrate Elvis' 76th birthday? (Don't even try to slip past the, "We'll have one last Christmas together," crap!)

I would propose that to WW, "January" means "someday", and the fact that "someday" exists as a promise/threat justifies her not investing any effort in working on the marriage.

So if this is correct (you probably have the same suspicion), what should you be doing to use this to your advantage?

I would suggest pressing WW hard now to agree to things (MB efforts, etc) if the January dates come and go without dissolution actions being initiated. Obviously, if she (in her own mind) is convinced of her intention to pull the pin there can be no reason that she could NOT promise you something like that.

If she pushes back, you will at least have demonstrated to her that you are fully aware of how full of "used food" she really is.