I would say that between his past behavior and his current behavior, he is exhibiting a pattern of unfaithfulness. Just know that this is unacceptable and the most loving thing to do is leave him so he understands that this is not allowed. Anyways, just know that your outrage is justified. A man should step up for his family and lead when it comes to productivity. He does not have to be the primary wage earner, but his example should be one of discipline, prudence, and discernment.

Have you considered calling the radio show for Dr Harley's support? The link for the radio is Here

Another suggestion is to set up a couple of Marriage Builder counseling sessions. It may seem a little pricey, but you will receive direct, totally MB advice. MB Counseling Link

There are a number of posters here I absolutely trust, and there are others, well.....I take with a grain of salt. When a person is pretty new to the boards, it can be hard to tell which ones should be listened to.

If you don't hear back from the Harleys in a few days, click the Notify button and let the moderators know you sent an email to the Harleys and haven't heard back.

51CD30,

A session with Dr. Harley might be a very good idea. I�ll look into it.

I agree about the pattern of unfaithfulness. I view his being glued to the computer and games as a form of unfaithfulness. It�s putting his attentions completely on something that is destructive to our relationship.

For a long time I monitored his computer use with a keystroke recorder. But once I let up and then a few months later checked again he was online with the chat stuff again. He supposedly stopped. Then about 4 months ago I checked one morning when he had forgotten to lock his computer screen and he was at it again. On the one account I found he�d been on there are 2 years. I did read his emails; he did not seem to be involved in anything sexual. But he was in a flirtation relationship that was going on for some time. The group he was involved with were doing an online fund raiser.. a pretty successful one. And they were building virtual �homes� and selling them to others in the virtual world. That is how he paid for his membership. He had made a few hundred dollars that way.

I do believe that the emails I exchanged with his flirtation friend completely ended that relationship. It was apparently a daily thing to hang out with this person online while I was at work, or at night when I was asleep.

Since that last find he has supposedly stopped all online stuff. I don�t believe him. I don�t trust him. I really think he�s more comfortable with the online relationships because he can be anyone he wants, he really has no responsibly to the person. It�s just like having an ongoing romance novel where he gets to play center stage. It�s apparently hard for a real live person and real life demands to compete with that.

I took the time after reading this post yesterday to think about your questions. So far I have not been able to come up with anything specific except to be here for me. It�s not easy for me to ask for anything. I�m a care taker by nature� probably why I�m in this mess to start with. So I seldom ask for anything for myself.

I know I need a place where I can talk about things. One of my brothers lives in California. He�s going through a divorce and some hard health issues. We talk daily on the phone. I�ve tried talking to him about this � until recently he�s the only person that I�ve talked to about some of this. When I do he starts with the throw the bum out rant... and yes there is validity to that.

One thing that just came to mind is that talking to people who understand MB principles is helpful as I really do believe that they are important, even if I cannot save my marriage I still want to behave in a manner consistent with them. It�s all too easy to just fall into behaviors that are destructive when things are tough.

No problem with the sidetrack. It happens to the best of us.

I will definitely take your reading suggestion.
An exit plan� Yes I do think I need one. I don�t know why this is so hard for me. Maybe because he�s not physically abusive, never yells, etc. I do consider his behavior mean and abusive� but very passive. Maybe because his behavior is so passive it�s hard taking a tough stance.

I am concerned about talking about some things in the open forum because H noticed that I am on MB. Don�t know if he will care enough to try to find my posts here. I hope not.

Good points. I agree about using the MB principles even now. This is one of the reasons I came back here.


Yes we did have it working while we were both working together on it. In the long run MB does take both people. But over the long haul we did not keep it going. I�ll take my part of the blame for that. But it takes 2.


After reading the MB material years ago I do use a lot of it in other relationships. Yep, truth/honesty and no LB.

Your children are younger so it�s harder for them. My son and H�s children would not be bothered at all if we divorced. They have all told me as much.

H�s kids and their problems have been a huge distraction. In the past I spent a lot of energy and even money getting them counseling, into drug rehab, etc. But in the last year I decided that they are now adults and have only gone through the motions for the help I have tried to give them. So I told them both to leave. They were living here at home still. It�s time for me to take care of myself. They are adults and can mess up or fix their lives on their own now. I�ve done for them all that I can do.



I do worry about my son in all of this. We have talked about tall of this a lot. He�s not aware of all of the infidelity. Though he did tell me that he noticed H doing some strange things on the computer. So he�s aware of some things. He is very upset about H sitting at a computer all do and doing nothing productive. As my son says, he�s working so hard to get his degree. I have a very demanding job with a lot of overtime. (Thank goodness I get to work my over time at home. My employer provided a laptop for this.) So the two of us are working and productive. And then my son watches H just playing computer games all day. He�s not happy about it. And I do need to pay attention to his needs. He does still live at home.

There is one part of me that says, nope, no more work I�m ready to move on. And another that says that if there�s a way to fix this I would still go for that. I know from experience that divorce is a hard, destructive thing. And yes a person can come out of it in a very good place. But I�ve also seen people divorce someone who was obviously bad for them and the person actually do worse after the divorce. It�s weird but I�ve seen it.

I read somewhere once that people pick a marriage partner who has emotional health that fit theirs like a glove. I�d say that describes my husband and me.

So what are my problems that got me into this mess and that keep me here???? Something to ponder.


Agreed. Even before he lost his job and fell into the state he�s in now it was now easy. He could not be trusted to be honest. He�s a very good liar.. though I�ve learned to read him pretty well now.


Intellectually I know this. I have a problem though with how to get him out of here. I cannot just throw him out. He has no job. I doubt he can get one at this point. He�s applied to hundreds of places over the years. He has a great resume. He�s had a lot of interviews. No one every hires him. I�m sure he�s doing something in the interviews that is turning people off. Now that he�s been out of work for ions no one will even look at him. Even Home Depot and Walmart did not give him a second look.


I am depleted. I need to come up with things that I can do to get myself into better shape mentally and physically. That�s a lot of it I think.

This has always been a point of interest for me on these forums. I remember having fear that my WW-at-the-time was going to "discover" my thread. I think marriages deteriorate so much that we feel we have to be secretive towards each other in order to HELP the situation. ::
I also wondered to myself how much of my time spent on the forums -trying to find ways to fix my marriage- was actually IB and possibly destructive to the situation. I guess it's all affected by the fact that my ww at the time was wayward and there was not much talking to her; not sure how this applies to other situations.
I'm not rying to be critical gabby and I'm really not sure where I'm going with it honestly. You were nice enough to respond to everyone individually so perhaps you would be interested in the point.

Anyway, I don't think you have anything to hide. You are speaking your true feelings. Have you spoken directly with him about any of the concerns brought up here??? In retrospect, I suppose I could have been more diligent about that during my time of trying to fight the affair - it was all just so confusing and overwhleming.

I also would welcome your H here, maybe not on this thread as that has proven to be ineffective for people, as I understand it. However, since he's on line a lot anyway, maybe he could start a thread here and learn about a new way to approach relationships; regardless of the condition or fate of your marriage.
\

opt

Hi Gabby I see that you are in agony because he is ill. I'm guessing that the failure of his children to launch on top of the job situation have triggered this. As depression is a remapping by the brain of the known world, he should be recovering by now. If he is not recovering, could he be addicted to something?

Are you ok with the economics of a divorce? The house is marital and you may additionally have to continue to support him for a few years. If you can afford to buy him out, you will be able to keep the house but then will be faced with the problem of having to ask him to leave once the divorce is final.

Personally, I knew I was ready to file when I could stare at my worst case scenario (wiped out financially and single for the rest of my life) and absolutely definitely know that it was a better situation than the one I was in. I don't sense you have arrived at that point yet.

Last week went down hill at work when on Tuesday I was told that I had an audit by one of my customers for the rest of the week. So it was an intense week. Today I slept until 2pm... just needed the sleep after a few rough days at work.

But now I'm baaack!

I agree that the issues with his children and the job situation were big catalysts that led to his current problems.

At this point I do feel that there is no way that he will get hired by anyone even if he wanted a job. A guy his age who has not worked for years is basically unemployable. I think I�d be happy if he would just do the things that need to be done around the house and yard. These are things that I would do if I were home and not working. I would love to come home to a clean house, a mowed yard and a good dinner. What a concept!!


In my state I will not have to pay any support. We have not been married long enough for that. I was married to my ex for 15 years. He�s a physician. I had put him through medical school. In California he would have had owed me for that. Plus his income was higher so he would have had to pay spousal support . But in New Mexico he only had to pay child support.

I am talking to H�s psychologist about whether or not he�s ill enough to be classified as disabled. He could get SSD (Social Security Disability). His income was in the six figure range before the layoff so he would at least have that and Medicare. He�d basically be getting social security a bit early.


It can take some time to get there I guess.

My husband really does know almost everything I�ve said here in that I speak to him about how I feel, what I need, etc etc. I have mentioned that I think about divorce sometimes. Just not that I�m at the point I am at.

Mostly I want a place to think and talk that is not just in my head. Where I get some feedback.
I am very interested in your point and it is a good point. I�ve been thinking about it a lot since I first read this post.
Yes I have spoken to him about everything I�ve said here. He listens, says he will work on the marriage with me. Then goes back to his computer and into his little world. He would be very upset about what I�ve said about a divorce here. Though I don�t know why he�d be surprised. I think I�ve been more than reasonable all these years. I just don�t think he believes I have a breaking point.

Does say that I am not being fair because he has changed some things. He is cooking several nights a week. He is doing the shopping. And the kitchen was even clean this week. (I feel like a nagging spouse)

He saw his doc today and found a magazine with a wonderful recipe. So he went shopping on the way home and got the ingredients. Some kind of baked chicken with cabbage dish. And Pana Cotta with poached pears for dessert. Sounds wonderful. So now I feel like a jerk for complaining, right? Lol

Thanks, it might happen, we�ll see. I think that he has forgotten everything we learned doing MB back when we were doing it.

well, no because actions speak louder than words but you need consistent actions too; so one week is not enough to undue the extended months of you're feeling neglected in that area. I would guess that the positive reinforcement he'll get from you will be inspiring for him to repeat and maybe develop some habits. [behaviors repeated beget habits, habits repeated beget character-- that philosophy helped me get rid of a lot of my LoveBusters]

So where's the radical honesty?
As I've read in some other threads lately, 'humans can't read minds.'


--Not trying to bust on you gabby. This is some feedback.

opt

If it is depression then you would expect to see a recovery as he will by now be coming to terms with himself as a person who is no longer a breadwinner.

But more important is the lack of trust. The POJA is awesome for that. Find a major issue that needs resolving and POJA it with him following the rules very carefully. Then see if he sticks to his side of the bargain. I have found the POJA to be the most revealing of all MB techniques.

Gabby, I think I can relate to your situation, even though it is quite different from mine. I "hear" in your writing (correct me if I'm wrong) that you are miserable and that part of you knows your marriage is over and your husband is not going to change enough to make it work. That's the way I felt. The problem, for me, was that it took me many years to get to the point that was so well-stated by Living Well:

"Personally, I knew I was ready to file when I could stare at my worst case scenario (wiped out financially and single for the rest of my life) and absolutely definitely know that it was a better situation than the one I was in."

If your experience is like mine, it is NOT going to get better, because your husband is either unable or unwilling (or both) to do his part. However, until you get to the point stated above, you're going to continue to suffer. At least, I did.

I now feel like a million pounds of iron has been lifted off me, just because I've finally reached the point of being DONE.

Now, if I could just get him outta here. . . (separate post for advice about that).

Good luck, Gabby. I wish you the best.