Well that was quick. Late sleep today, a walk together, a very nice dinner we cooked together. At one point during the walk she stopped me on the street, mid-sentence to tell me she loves me. We talked about our shared passion, music. It's amazing to see our connection catch fire when both our eyes are shining with our passion for the subject! And she initiated SF after dinner. It was wonderful, tearful, and passionate. Very happy with how things are going.


Of course she's right: my heart wants so badly to believe that withdrawal is over, but I know it isn't, yet. Maybe this was a good day, or maybe she pushed herself for me. Maybe she was crying out of love and remorse, or maybe she [censored] crying because she wanted the OM. I don't know and I'm pushing those thoughts out of my head. I'm just trusting that this course.of behavior together WILL get her through withdrawal and back to feeling enough affection for me to do the rest of the MB steps together. Sometimes you just gotta have faith.

This is very good, lost. Very encouraging. Yes, she's still in withdrawal, but it sounds very promising. Just be aware that there will be downslopes on this rollercoaster. Know that, and ride them out when they occur.

Recovery's tough, and it's not for sissies I think you have what it takes.

Agh yeah I had a big downslope yesterday night. We talked about sex and what he gave her sexually that I didn't (or hadn't for years in her foggy telling). Of course I know that the WS is crazy about the OP, and that leads to fantastic sex, with an added boost to the new person chemistry that would be there in any circumstance. But knowing that consciously doesn't make the anger go away, and it doesn't stop the mind movies. It gave me a tremendous alpha urge... to go beat my chest and possess her like an object. Real primal gorilla stuff.

Of course, right now any of that is just frightening to her. For now at least, I have to be ultimate beta to support her through this. So it's a zero sum train of thought.

I'll be honest: I'm scared. She and I both want to be passionate about each other again... wet-at-the-thought kind of passionate, as well as mistaken-for-newlyweds kind of passionate. But I don't know if that's possible in a long term relationship. We both felt tired of working to feel sexual with each other. Does that get better?

Deep breath. We're making great progress. Every day is its own struggle but one foot in front of the other, right? Sometimes I wish I could just walk away go bury my head in the rush of a new affection. This is a hard struggle.

To give you some hope:

That your wife also wants a passionate relationship with you is a very good start. Many waywards don't get there for a long while.

The mind movies are torture for both genders. They start to fade in time, if recovery is going well and you are each filling each others love banks with lots of deposits and making no withdrawals. Time really helps.

As to passion, others will be along to tell you their stories, but in short, yes, you can have a wonderful passion even in a long-term relationship. As a very monogamous woman, instead of saying "even in a long-term relationship," I say "especially" in a long-term relationship. He and I have a deep understanding of what we each like and know our responses and feel completely at ease with each other in the bedroom.

It IS different from when we first married and the passion was very new, but people often tell us we are like newlyweds, because we hold hands when we walk and are warmly courteous when speaking with each other in public.

At home, throughout this year, my H has a newly-discovered drive for SF. At first, we did the hysterical bonding, but we really don't think it's HB anymore. We have a very passionate love life, now that we both understand how to implement the behavioral changes that make it easier to be passionate, which basically comes down to meeting each others ENs and avoiding LBs. Making sure we make the time is important, too.

For now, my suggestion would be NOT to work hard at feeling sexual with each other. You and your W should spend about 20 hours of UA time a week together and make these the most enjoyable times of your week. Talk, be affectionate, go on dates. The rest will happen as you each fall in love with the other again.

Thank you for the hope longway. I need it right now! We're definitely on a positive track... I'd say about 10% of our day is spent in a funk or discussion, and the rest is basically positive. By the end of every day since Xmas, we have both been in a very affectionate, cuddly place. Tomorrow is our 5 year wedding anniversary. We're going to get dressed up to the nines, and go to the opera (a favorite activity for both of us). I'm working on a plan for drinks afterwards.

I am still thinking about her comments about sex. Thankfully the mind movies are fading and I can push them aside when I want to. But I'm not used to being "just ok" in the sack. I was always frustrated by my wife's reticence to talk about her sexual needs and wants - IMO that's the only way to become truly fantastic for each other in bed - and the way she alluded to "certain skills" really bothers me. When she's comfortable talking about sex with each other again (I guess right now it conjures images of the OM or her guilt, but she is very direct about not being comfortable with it), I think the approach has to be not "what did OM do so well," but rather "what can I improve?" She comments that sexual compatibility is just automatic and you can't learn "certain skills"... which sounds like hurtful fog to me.

Anyway, thanks for the support and encouragement. I'm gonna keep on trucking in the current track to try and find some stability.

She believes that the "great sex" she enjoyed with OM is because of his bedroom skills. In actuality, she probably enjoyed the sex with him because she felt emotionally close to him. (Sorry, I know....) As she begins to feel that closeness with you, she will be able to share more with you. It is incumbent on every woman to learn what makes her feel great in bed and then share that info with her husband.


My H pretty easy to please in bed. I can count on doing this and that, and he's thrilled. For me, and likely for other women as well, the feelings change from one time to the next. This time, I may want him to touch one way, and the next time another. This place, or that place. He makes a good solid guess and then I have to let him know. It's my orgasm not his, so it's my responsibility to help him help me get there.

Sexual compatibility is not automatic, not at all. It is built on learning what makes the other happy in bed and, for women, on emotional closeness.

Anyone can learn the skills; it's not some kind of magical mystical "gift" bestowed a few lucky people.

She will likely feel better about SF once she feels very close to you again.

Congratulations on your wedding anniversary. If we had found MB in our fifth year of marriage, we would have been so much better off. Happy night at the opera.

Ok, I think I officially have to move my thread into the "In Recovery" section. Today my wife told me that for the last couple of days she's felt like the fog has lifted, and she can see her real priorities again. Obviously there are layers of fog to get through, and she's got a ways to go before she can see the OM as the pig I see... but all the same I asked her what she meant.

In a nutshell... she feels like her heart is in the effort now. She has bug plans for our anniversary, and she really wants to move forward with recovering and building our relationship into something incredible. That doesn't mean.that she doesn't have slumps anymore, and it doesn't mean that she isn't still on a powder keg of emotion in some ways. But it means that shereally feels that she wants to rebuild, body and soul.

Thank you MB types for supporting me and helping me get this far! I'm looking forward to consolidating our gains with another week of concentrated affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfilment.... (we've been scheduling daily UA activities, and plan to continue it for the next several weeks at least). Then I look forward to diving into active recovery as a team.

The best Christmas present ever.

Did she write the NC letter? Did you approve of it and mail it yourself?

Has she agreed to become completely transparent?

What EP's have you both put in place to affair proof your M?

MB only works if you take all the steps.

She agreed to NC the day of disclosure. We had to improve the EP a couple of times since then, but this last one (a week ago) SHE was suggesting triggers to eliminate.

There is no way to contact the om without actually going to his home... and I'm not sure that he still lives there anyway. His FB is blocked, all photos are deleted, his phone number and email address, and all messages to/from him are deleted. The secret email account she used to communicate with him is deleted. We've moved, and both changed jobs. She was off the continent for a month. We have both been on vacation at home together for the 3 weeks since the time away, so she's had no opportunity to contact him even if she could. I have a keylogger and phone records to make sure no contact does happen.

As for affair proofing the marriage going forward... no more male friendships (apart from one very gay friend), no drinking beyond one glass when we're out. No outings with an odd non-coupled person. She's reporting her texts, phone calls, and daily activities to me. We've killed a couple of big love busters, and are going to do a more thorough job of hunting them down in the new year. We've identified a couple of big emotional needs, and we'll also hunt down more of those in the new year. For the time being, we're committed to going out and sharing a recreational activity together once a day, and we're clear on what defines UA as opposed to just time together. Actually we have a ton of UA built into our lives at the moment anyway, but having dedicated time is wonderful. We have established policies of total honesty, with boundaries around the A, and a POJA with negotiation strategies. For now the PORH and POJA are rudimentary, but they are there. We're both feeling the glow of constant deposits, and it's wonderful. There's still work to do, but we're on a solid track.

We just celebrated our 5 year wedding anniversary, and re-took our vows to each other. We're both excited to start more concentrated work on making our relationship deposit faster, and on what we call "titanium armor plating" the marriage so this cannot happen again.

So yeah, I'm looking forward to a structured recovery, and to continuing to build our affection for each other.

An update, much later. We're at 6 months since initial D-Day, and things are greatly greatly improved. We're checking in on our ENs every couple of months, and really working to build affection. Life has started to catch up with us, and lately it's been a bit of a challenge making time and energy for real UA time together, but basically we've been on a good path.

We have a lingering problem around sex, though. We were trying to have sex 2-3 times a week, based on our matching needs on the EN questionnaire. Sometimes it was good, emotionally connected sex, and sometimes my wife or I were totally disconnected, which is a huge LB for us. After a couple of weeks where we were really busy and had zero energy for each other, I was feeling really bad. SF is #2 on my EN sheet, and not receiving that form of affection has a big effect on me. I was building resentment up and it was not good. But every time I brought up sex with my wife, I got a big explosion. It's been a hot button issue for us in the past, and recent history only made that worse.

Basically, though my wife professes to be attracted to me, it never translates into sexual excitement. She never initiates, and when I make a comment inviting sex, she shuts down. For my part, I can't help connecting this to the affair, and how she managed to be sexually excited about this piece of trash... but she doesn't feel that way about me. It drives me up the wall, and it's big trigger that sends me into old, angry memories. Now we're at a place where sex is getting negatively loaded, sometimes it feels like I just want nothing to do with it anymore.

Our sex life was great before the affair. Our issues were around frequency, not enjoyment or connection or anything like that. But now, she never seems to want it, and when she does, it's unsatisfying. She can always use a vibrator to reach orgasm, but basically anything I do doesn't seem to connect. And disconnected sex hurts worse than no sex. I know Dr. Harley says that no matter what it was like before an affair, sex after an affair is lousy. He also says that it takes about 6 months for good sex to return.

Any advice? How have others turned the corner from lousy post-affair sex to good, connected sex again?

It is absolutely essential to schedule at least 20 hours of UA time each week. Fifteen is the minimum for a marriage that's not in trouble. Then keep those appointments with each other.

Those 20 hours of UA time should be the most enjoyable hours of the week for both of you. It should be spent meeting each other's emotional needs. Have fun together, be affectionate, talk about your days. Dr. H. says to even schedule SF for the time of day when both are energetic.

If your wife has the EN of affection, and many women do, this is essential in creating the environment of the marriage. Affection should not be given solely in the context of SF. It should be frequently displayed in the ways your W loves. Check on this every couple of weeks to make sure you are meeting that need in the way she likes.

Once she is in love with you, she will enjoy SF with you again.

If you are need some guided help, I suggest the Online Program. We signed up last year, and it really helped us stay on track.