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#2580924 01/04/12 12:13 AM
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D-day plus 5 months.Found out by reading text messages not deleted to OM on her phone on his birthday. After confronting WW with it she flew back and has since done all the right things. We have been in counseling and all was going well until I asked why and what were you thinking questions. I had convinced myself that WW was seduced by OM and that had seemed to make it not feel as bad. I know, denial! Not the case! WW said it was her idea. She was the one who pursued OM! Now I and my crushed ego,are having trouble with doubt about meeting her SF. How do I address this and not ruin what good things we have gained in every other area.


Me 59 newly married after being a widow
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Ask WW why did she chase the OM?

What have you and your WW done to recover since dday?

How did WW meet the OM, neighbor, work, friend?

How long have you been reading here?

Has the NC letter been written and sent?

What eposure has been done?

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*** LINK *** to Radical Honesty in Basic Concepts

How GREAT ! Your wife was HONEST with you !

Originally Posted By: This site's BASIC CONCEPTS
The Policy of Radical Honesty

Reveal to your spouse as much
information about yourself as you know;
your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes,
dislikes, personal history, daily activities,
and plans for the future.

To help explain this policy, I have broken it down into four parts:

1. EMOTIONAL HONESTY: Reveal your emotional reactions, both positive and negative, to the events of your life, particularly to your spouse's behavior.

2. HISTORICAL HONESTY: Reveal information about your personal history, particularly events that demonstrate personal weakness or failure.

3. CURRENT HONESTY: Reveal information about the events of your day. Provide your spouse with a calendar of your activities, with special emphasis on those that may affect your spouse.

4. FUTURE HONESTY: Reveal your thoughts and plans regarding future activities and objectives.




Quote:

How do I address this and not ruin what good things we have gained in every other area.


Thank her for being honest.
Tell her you are hurt by the facts, and that you will need time to come to grips with the facts.

Then, ask her to hug you.

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Originally Posted By: wle2


WW said it was her idea. She was the one who pursued OM! Now I and my crushed ego,are having trouble with doubt about meeting her SF.



Your WW allowed OM to meet some of her other important ENs prior to sex.
Find out what those were.

Here's the EN list.

Quote:

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration


And, here's the *** LINK *** to the EN part of Basic Concepts.

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Thank you The Road and Pepper band for responding, I'm new at this and am learning on the fly. I am very pleased with WW being honest with me and have told her so.We have read H N/H R filled out our EN Questionnaire. I have read Love Busters and Surviving an Affair. I have read every article on MB site.We have been in counseling for 4 1/2 months. She sent OM a text to end it before I could ask her to or read it.She and I have had some hard discussions about her affair the only feelings she says she has for him now is remorse and guilt. OM was a former co-worker who lives in another state. Only exposure was to my Dad, Best Friend and pastor. In our talks WW said OM meet her EN for Conversation and Admiration. I was hurt on the job 4 years ago and at the age of 46 had both knees replaced and had 2 bulging disks in back. Company fired me after 26 years and told me I was to disabled to work for them. WW said she pursued OM thinking our marriage and me in particular were as good as it would ever be. I had enough invested to retire early and am drawing close to what I was making while working.WW says it is not F N. When I ask what do I still need to do all she says is you are now doing it.


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I feel for you, WLE. The fact is, the truth does hurt but Pepper is right: honesty is VERY important for recovery. Your denial would only just keep you from doing your part to secure a better marriage for the future. Believe me, I know this first hand.

Understand that recovery is not easy, but nothing worthwhile usually is. There IS pain. It's what you do with that pain that's important - not that it's there.

The best way to get through this is to focus on having an exceptional marriage in the future - one that is WAY better than you had before, and WAY better than any affair could ever be. If you keep that in mind as the goal for both of you, it will help you in the down times.

The only way to have that - an exceptional marriage - is to follow a recovery plan. Counseling alone won't do it; nor will just "striving to do better." You both have to be dedicated to doing things differently. Personally, I've found that having a plan is the only way to do so. You and your wife didn't get to this point by doing things right, so you must learn new methods of how to have a great relationship.

Read all you can here - you're in a great place to learn how to rebuild!


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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WLE2,

Be glad you got that kind of honesty so soon, you can't base a recovery on dishonesty any more than you can build a bridge or a a house on inaccurate data.

I've been refused that kind of honesty from WW, I think because she knows I will go after OM if he was the seducer and fears I will divorce her in the other case. Unfortunately from what I know I think she was the active person, which is difficult to take as she was never that way with me.

Another big advantage to what your told you is that she will have less damaging guilt to carry around.

God Bless
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I try to take my wifes remorse and guilt and shame to heart. She can't undo what was done and expressed on every occasion she wants me. Therefore I am learning to not ask things that may bring info I really don't want. Its a swallowing of the need to know that which you don't know.

I found it gets easier.

It sounds like your sitch at home is similar to mine. Remember a remorseful wife is about as good as it gets for us early on.


Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
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WLE2,

Did you try to expose the OM at the workplace? If he was your WW superior there is a good chance you can get him fired. He may have done this before and continue to destroy families as he tried to do with yours.

Is the OM married?

God Bless
Gamma

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Is OM married? Does his wife know? Have you independently confirmed that he no longer works for your wife's company and really IS in another state?

Don't take your wife's word for any of these things.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Wow, thanks guys I can all ready see I am in the right place. marital bliss, the Om not married and I checked and really is in another state. No longer works for company, thanks for the reminder. Sunny din, We are applying the four rules to our marriage recovery that is as much of a plan as we have at this time. We have learned independent behavior was our monster in the closet and both are brain storming this area. Gamma , you are right I am pleased with honesty. Mike Still Smiling that is what I am now learning, wish I had found you guys sooner! Thank you again big help.


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wle, this site is full of great information on keeping your marriage safe. Check out the 'Most Popular Links' on the right side of your screen if you haven't done so already. That's a good place to start. Jump back on your thread if you have any questions on any of the material. (You don't have to start a new thread to ask a question - just stay on this one. We'll find you smile )


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Have not been on here for months because FWW went all in on restoring our marriage and we have been progressing at a rapid pace until...I started triggering again. Date and activity association. Their last rendezvous of the PA, upcoming D-day anniversary and what used to be our favorite RA. I know it has not even been one year but FWW has come back to me so completely and has so much remorse that I am feeling ashamed of my own thoughts. I have not brought up the A in months and honestly did not feel the need to till this week.RH about how I feel is what I know I need to give her and have. I will continue to, just wanted to know how others handled their association triggers. Also how other people handle the tendency to hold back in order not to damage what we have gained to this point.


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Originally Posted By: wle2
Have not been on here for months because FWW went all in on restoring our marriage and we have been progressing at a rapid pace until...I started triggering again. Date and activity association. Their last rendezvous of the PA, upcoming D-day anniversary and what used to be our favorite RA. I know it has not even been one year but FWW has come back to me so completely and has so much remorse that I am feeling ashamed of my own thoughts. I have not brought up the A in months and honestly did not feel the need to till this week.RH about how I feel is what I know I need to give her and have. I will continue to, just wanted to know how others handled their association triggers. Also how other people handle the tendency to hold back in order not to damage what we have gained to this point.


What you are experiencing is NORMAL.

Originally Posted By: You
Also how other people handle the tendency to hold back in order not to damage what we have gained to this point.


Express your feelings.
"I am having a sad day."
Or ....
"I am feeling insecure right now."

ALSO, express what you want your W to do ....
"Please hold me."
Or .....
"Come sit and just listen to me."

Don't ask "Why?" .... Dead end question at your stage.

You are not alone.

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Originally Posted By: wle2
Have not been on here for months because FWW went all in on restoring our marriage and we have been progressing at a rapid pace until...I started triggering again. Date and activity association. Their last rendezvous of the PA, upcoming D-day anniversary and what used to be our favorite RA. I know it has not even been one year but FWW has come back to me so completely and has so much remorse that I am feeling ashamed of my own thoughts. I have not brought up the A in months and honestly did not feel the need to till this week.RH about how I feel is what I know I need to give her and have. I will continue to, just wanted to know how others handled their association triggers. Also how other people handle the tendency to hold back in order not to damage what we have gained to this point.


It's important to know that triggers are going to be there - especially when "anti-versaries" rear their ugly heads. It's normal and you just have to get through them the best you can, utilizing various coping mechanisms: redirecting your mind, turning negatives into positives (i.e. making special plans on a formerly bad date/place), redirecting efforts to making your marriage even better, etc...

It's also important to note that you are NOT supposed to bring up the A, at all. It only brings the past into the present - as we say around here. Dr. Harley is very clear that even with the policy of radical honesty that discussing the affair - or triggers - only reminds you both of the betrayal. It is difficult to grasp how you are supposed to be open with your spouse while not bringing up the trigger, I know. I had a whole discussion on it on my thread.

Of course, this doesn't mean that you don't let your spouse know you are struggling. It means that you don't go into specifics. You tell your spouse that you need some extra TLC or reassurance because you are having a difficult time and need her help to feel better. You don't go into details about the trigger.

I know it may seem unfair. When you have a remorseful spouse, however, they know they are the cause of the pain without having to be told exactly why. It sets back recovery when you talk about the past so you keep everything in the here and now - or in planning for the future. Thus, it is in your best interest to keep the past where it belongs.

A lot of us have used these forums as a place to talk about these things because at times, we do need others to understand our pain and all of us here do. It's better to discuss it here than to bring the A back into your marriage.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Thank you Pepperband for the great info and advice. I need to stay connected! We were "checking in" with each other and asking how the other was feeling but I forgot what I had learned from MB early on and as the triggers started again I jumped into the deep end of the pity pond and went too specific.


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SunnyDinTX, I have been clubbing myself like a baby seal for bring up the A this week! This is why hard heads like me need to stay on MB. Thank you for the life line of good advice! I need all the help I can get to keep from messing up what the FWW and I have regained. Seeing those tears streaming down her face and hearing her whisper, "I am so sorry" and about D-day " I don't think of it as the day you caught me, but as the day you saved me!" Made me realize I had screwed up royally and that did not know how to handle my thoughts and feelings with out causing unnecessary LB withdrawals . At least I knew enough to come back here!


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Originally Posted By: wle2
SunnyDinTX, I have been clubbing myself like a baby seal for bring up the A this week! This is why hard heads like me need to stay on MB. Thank you for the life line of good advice! I need all the help I can get to keep from messing up what the FWW and I have regained. Seeing those tears streaming down her face and hearing her whisper, "I am so sorry" and about D-day " I don't think of it as the day you caught me, but as the day you saved me!" Made me realize I had screwed up royally and that did not know how to handle my thoughts and feelings with out causing unnecessary LB withdrawals . At least I knew enough to come back here!


Well, it's tough to know how to get the help you need and being O&H without bringing the past into it. I think sometimes the advice (to not talk about the A or triggers) is misconstrued as the BS is supposed to just suck it up and deal with it - or stuff it. That's not the intent at all. It's about finding a way to get the help you need to move past the trigger without staying stuck on the details of the A.

Like anything else, it's all a balance. I can tell my H that I don't want to see a specific movie, for instance, without telling him that the lead character reminds me too much of OW. If he presses for a reason I don't want to see the movie, I can simply tell him it is not a movie that would put me in a good place mentally. I'm still being honest without beating him over the head with the past.

Another thought about not bringing up the A or triggers - who among us FBSs wants to further remind our FWSs of their APs??? Not me!

Don't feel too bad about your mistake - we all make them. I doubt there is a FBS among us who has been perfect on this matter. It seems to be one of the most difficult aspects of MB for the recovering BS. On one hand, it makes us feel better to "remind" our spouses of the hurt they caused and how lucky they are we took them back after such pain. It makes us feel "sure" they aren't forgetting about how they betrayed us and how we still hurt. BUT...at what cost? The "feeling better" about reminding them is fleeting - momentary at best. It does more damage than good to the state of our marriage when we succumb to the urge of bringing the past into the present.

It is far more healing to tell your spouse what you need from them and have them meet that need. It is through this action that they are demonstrating the necessary remorse. Don't we say "actions speak louder than words?" What, then, is better for your marriage: having your spouse actively meet your needs in moments of insecurity and sorrow - or seeing the downtrodden look on his/her face or tears in his/her eyes - feeling hopeless because they can't change the past?

I don't know. I think sometimes we (as FBSs) feel a bit better when we see our spouse feel bad. Part of us wants them to hurt because they hurt us. Them hurting isn't going to restore our marriages, however. Them changing along with us - creating better behaviors IS.

It's all about seeing the big picture rather than going for the immediate gratification of wanting to hit back.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Originally Posted By: wle2
SunnyDinTX, I have been clubbing myself like a baby seal for bring up the A this week!


Not necessary. Indeed this would be "over-kill". (pun intended)


Quote:
This is why hard heads like me need to stay on MB.


I don't consider myself a hard head, but I frequently learn new MB pearls. smile

Quote:
Seeing those tears streaming down her face and hearing her whisper, "I am so sorry" and about D-day " I don't think of it as the day you caught me, but as the day you saved me!"


WoW ... pretty powerful indeed!

Quote:
Made me realize I had screwed up royally and that did not know how to handle my thoughts and feelings with out causing unnecessary LB withdrawals . At least I knew enough to come back here!


Progress, not perfection.

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Originally Posted By: SunnyDinTX
Don't feel too bad about your mistake - we all make them. I doubt there is a FBS among us who has been perfect on this matter. It seems to be one of the most difficult aspects of MB for the recovering BS. On one hand, it makes us feel better to "remind" our spouses of the hurt they caused and how lucky they are we took them back after such pain. It makes us feel "sure" they aren't forgetting about how they betrayed us and how we still hurt. BUT...at what cost? The "feeling better" about reminding them is fleeting - momentary at best. It does more damage than good to the state of our marriage when we succumb to the urge of bringing the past into the present.

It is far more healing to tell your spouse what you need from them and have them meet that need. It is through this action that they are demonstrating the necessary remorse. Don't we say "actions speak louder than words?" What, then, is better for your marriage: having your spouse actively meet your needs in moments of insecurity and sorrow - or seeing the downtrodden look on his/her face or tears in his/her eyes - feeling hopeless because they can't change the past?

I don't know. I think sometimes we (as FBSs) feel a bit better when we see our spouse feel bad. Part of us wants them to hurt becatuse they hurt us. Them hurting isn't going to restore our marriages, however. Them changing along with us - creating better behaviors IS.

It's all about seeing the big picture rather than going for the immediate gratification of wanting to hit back.

hurray


What a wonderful explanation!



[/quote]

Last edited by Prisca; 07/27/12 01:50 PM.

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