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I am now divorced and my life has moved on. I still love my ex-husband (Stuffless) very much. He still loves me. He is uncertain of what he wants, and says he's not happy. Both of us miss being together.

I've changed a lot. I look at things differently. I've come to learn why I acted in certain ways and to take ownership for it.

There's not a day that goes by that I don't miss my ex dearly. Nothing seems right anymore.
I don't really fight any more, with anyone. Even my parents, who can be difficult. I have no doubt everything would be different if Stuffless and I tried again. However, I don't know how to make that happen. He says he doesn't know what he wants to whether he would want to be with me.

All I can do is live my life the best I can.
My life has a lot of deep grief.

Sometimes I have dreams where my ex is with me, and it's me and him again, happy, goofy, without a care. It's him and me again, nothing else matters. Life isn't perfect, but we're together.

I wish he would come back.


"Jesus looked at them intently and said, 'Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.'" Matthew 19:26
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Hi HH,

Have you dated other people? That might take your mind off of your X-husband. We have many folks here are happily remarried,[Seekingwife is one - she posted to you] using all the new skills they learned on Marriage Builders.

Harley suggests dating ALOT of people and marrying the one who does the best job of meeting your needs. I seem to remember that your XH did a very poor job of meeting your needs. That can probably be avoided in your next marriage if you carefully select a spouse who does the BEST job of meeting your needs.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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HH,

It appears from reading some of your old tread that you never exposed the OM to his parents, school, church etc. Did your BH feel any hostility towards the guy, especially since OM got away undamaged?

God Bless
Gamma

Last edited by Gamma; 02/22/12 09:34 PM.
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Hi MelodyLane,
I've dated... I know what you mean by selecting a spouse who does a fantastic job of meeting your needs. Stuffless did an amazing job of meeting my needs and that's why I fell in love with him and married him.

Hi Gamma, I didn't need to. OM confessed his A himself to the appropriate people at school and church.


"Jesus looked at them intently and said, 'Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.'" Matthew 19:26
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Originally Posted by HopingHeart
Hi MelodyLane,
I've dated... I know what you mean by selecting a spouse who does a fantastic job of meeting your needs. Stuffless did an amazing job of meeting my needs and that's why I fell in love with him and married him.

Am I remembering wrong? I seem to remember he did a terrible job of meeting your needs according to your posts. Maybe my memory is off..


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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What you are not remembering are the guidelines for dealing with waywards. Remember, just because a wayward says something, doesn't mean it's true.

Just because a wayward says her spouse didn't meet her needs, that doesn't mean it's true.

It could be, she now sees how he was meeting her needs and misses what she had and didn't even know it.

Who knows?

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by HopingHeart
Hi MelodyLane,
I've dated... I know what you mean by selecting a spouse who does a fantastic job of meeting your needs. Stuffless did an amazing job of meeting my needs and that's why I fell in love with him and married him.

Am I remembering wrong? I seem to remember he did a terrible job of meeting your needs according to your posts. Maybe my memory is off..

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by HopingHeart
Hi MelodyLane,
I've dated... I know what you mean by selecting a spouse who does a fantastic job of meeting your needs. Stuffless did an amazing job of meeting my needs and that's why I fell in love with him and married him.

Am I remembering wrong? I seem to remember he did a terrible job of meeting your needs according to your posts. Maybe my memory is off..

MelodyLane, there were times where he did, and times where he did not so well. Prior to him leaving me, our time together did diminish. Looking back, we also had quite a few external pressures, other than just in-law stressors. Our business was under a great deal of stressors and my dog was dying.

That's not to say he didn't meet my EN's. I think he may have been at a point where he was struggling with his desire to be in the marriage, considering that both of us didn't know how to handle conflict well, which is understandable. Certainly, by the time he left, he had to have considered leaving, despite disliking it as an option. Leaving is a contrary option to committing to meeting a spouse's EN's, so it makes sense his focus there likely diminished, which is why I was experiencing higher anxiety about the marriage. I didn't really know how to handle my anxiety, unfortunately.

I also failed to meet his EN's the way I should have. frown

I handle stressors differently now, and wish I had the tools back then. I miss my H. I invite him to hang out, each time he says the day/time won't work for him. I know he's working a lot, not sure if maybe he doesn't really want to hang. We also have different schedules (I work evenings), and that makes it harder. He seems to be happy to hear from me, but it's conflicted happiness. He says it's hard for him, that a lot of the old stress emotions come back.


"Jesus looked at them intently and said, 'Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.'" Matthew 19:26
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Originally Posted by HopingHeart
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by HopingHeart
Stuffless did an amazing job of meeting my needs

Am I remembering wrong? I seem to remember he did a terrible job of meeting your needs according to your posts. Maybe my memory is off..

MelodyLane, there were times where he did, and times where he did not so well.

HH, at the beginning of this thread you said that Stuffless was abusive, narcissistic, has avoidant personality disorder, and that he never attempted to meet your emotional needs.


Me: BS 51
Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy."
Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors.
Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage
Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11
MC told me that he probably has a personality disorder
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HopingHeart,

Hi Gamma, I didn't need to. OM confessed his A himself to the appropriate people at school and church.

I know that's what you thought, but what did your H feel about your not doing anything to expose OM. He may also be lying to you about the extent of self-exposure btw.

The way you write that it almost sounds like you are saying that he was a good guy for exposing himself. Somewhat like the esteem my W still holds for OM2.

From your H's perspective "exposing himself to the appropriate people at school and church" might have included everyone. If he is still seducing women at some church you haven't done your job.

God Bless
Gamma

Last edited by Gamma; 03/05/12 07:48 PM.
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Originally Posted by Gamma
HopingHeart,

Hi Gamma, I didn't need to. OM confessed his A himself to the appropriate people at school and church.

I know that's what you thought, but what did your H feel about your not doing anything to expose OM. He may also be lying to you about the extent of self-exposure btw.

The way you write that it almost sounds like you are saying that he was a good guy for exposing himself. Somewhat like the esteem my W still holds for OM2.

From your H's perspective "exposing himself to the appropriate people at school and church" might have included everyone. If he is still seducing women at some church you haven't done your job.

God Bless
Gamma

Wow, Gamma, I don't know what I say... I feel sideswiped. Actually, I feel uncomfortable. You're projecting some weird stuff onto me that's not mine, and I don't really wish to pick it up as my job to answer it, because it's not. You said you're detecting some esteem I hold for the OM? Are you kidding? That's not me at all and I feel really uncomfortable with you putting that on me.

I might suggest though that if it's an issue for you (that your FWS doesn't completely denigrate the OM) that there might be some bitterness issues still lingering. As a woman who had my own spouse walk out on me and have another relationship with another woman while married to me, I feel I can talk about bitterness because I understand it quite well. You can't repair a marriage and hold onto bitterness. I don't know if you are, but the fact you projected issues onto me suggests something's there.

Additionally, I don't wish evil or bad on anyone. Exposure seeks to end an illicit relationship, not as some kind of cruel punishment to ruin someone's life. Exposure is not about vindication. Exposure is also not about trying to set someone straight, because I can't control what another person chooses to do. What I can control is they're not doing it with me. (Do you really think anyone can control another person's free will? How convoluted this conversation would get if someone insisted on trying to "control" another...)

I haven't talked to the OM for 7 years, when the A ended. I don't think dialogue about the OM is in line with my recent posts at all and feel lost and frustrated as to why OM is being brought up at this point.
I don't mean to be insensitive to anyone out there, but it doesn't feel sensitive to my post and what I'm sharing to mention something this off.

I feel frustrated about even having I have this conversation. I feel unheard, like my post wasn't even read.

I think I already shared numerous times that the A was not why Ex-H left. He left because we were fighting (LB's).

I was in a prayer group two years ago with ladies whose husbands had walked out on them. We would come together to pray for our marriages. I had a particularly awakening experience there. One girl who claimed to want her husband back spoke of him with the cruelest words. She almost smirked and seethed with contempt and the animosity she had for him was amazing. So much anger. And when she talked with him (she recounted the conversations), she spoke with a disrespectful tone, disrespectful words... Would anyone want to come home to that?

Why would any WS ever want to come back to a marriage where they were going to get treated like that?

The thought of BS justifying their anger makes me think of that. I am a BS too, I've had to deal with anger on a real level, but it has no place in marriage restoration...


"Jesus looked at them intently and said, 'Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.'" Matthew 19:26
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Originally Posted by Kirby
Originally Posted by HopingHeart
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by HopingHeart
Stuffless did an amazing job of meeting my needs

Am I remembering wrong? I seem to remember he did a terrible job of meeting your needs according to your posts. Maybe my memory is off..

MelodyLane, there were times where he did, and times where he did not so well.

HH, at the beginning of this thread you said that Stuffless was abusive, narcissistic, has avoidant personality disorder, and that he never attempted to meet your emotional needs.

Kirby, not sure if you are reading my posts? Have you read Dr. Harley's books?
I feel frustrated. Your response to me feels... grainy... contentious... What is your goal? To be combative? To understand? I don't feel heard or understood by your response. frown

Being "abusive" means LB's. So can narcissistic personality traits and avoidant personality disorder can have its own effects. Personality is something that can change. It is not fixed any more than a person who has a pattern of continuous LB's is fixed to be that way for life. We can change how we see things, understand things, react to things, and LB patterns can be dismantled and extinguished.

I know that when a bunch of shrinks got together and created the first DSM and then came up with all sorts of diagnostic labels, that those labels get treated as never changing realities of a person. I don't agree at all that personality disorders are fixed. Personality disorders are defense mechanism disorders--- meaning, learning healthier defense patterns and coping mechanisms enables a person to respond to their environment differently, which is in effect a personality change. That is the summit of all of Dr. Harley's work--- real life transformation through foundational growth of the person.

Like Harley says, couples fall in love because they meet each others' EN's. My Ex-H and I fell in love and we met each others EN's. At one point LBs entered the picture and we stopped meeting each others ENs.


"Jesus looked at them intently and said, 'Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.'" Matthew 19:26
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Originally Posted by HopingHeart
Your response to me feels... grainy... contentious... What is your goal? To be combative? To understand? I don't feel heard or understood by your response. frown

I was pointing out the fact that you are being inconsistent. You have stated that Stuffless did an amazing job meeting your needs and also that he never attempted to meet your needs. Those cannot both be true.


Me: BS 51
Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy."
Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors.
Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage
Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11
MC told me that he probably has a personality disorder
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Originally Posted by HopingHeart
[
Kirby, not sure if you are reading my posts? Have you read Dr. Harley's books?
I feel frustrated. Your response to me feels... grainy... contentious... What is your goal? To be combative? To understand? I don't feel heard or understood by your response.

Her response is accurate. She is only posting the truth. I had the same reaction when I went back and read your posts. You wrote endless, VERY LONG posts about what a poor job he did of meeting your needs. How many posts do you think you made about what a poor husband he was? I dunno.

Maybe you need to go back and read your posts?

My suggestion would be to find someone new who does a good job of meeting your needs. Dr Harley recommends dating at least 30 people and marrying the one who does the best job of meeting your needs.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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HH,

I was just trying to give you some perspective from a BH, this may or may not apply to you. I get the impression from your posts that you never really understood your BH's perspective on the affair or what WW affairs do to BH's in general.

And yes people on this forum do not really know you, but can only form an image of you from your words, and the limited number of posts your ExH made.

God Bless
Gamma

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Former married couples can and do get back together; some shouldnt but many can.
Here is a link to articles Dr. Harley wrote on this subject: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5035_qa.html

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However, Dr. Harley also says that persons with emotional disorders are usually unable to follow the POJA and usually end up divorced because they cant maintain a mutually caring relationship.

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Wow, HDW, that link was so enlightening, especially the second page! I hadn't seen it yet, even though I've perused this site extensively. Another good reason to "lurk" in other people's threads...there is so much wisdom here, both through Dr. Harley and through the many experienced posters. smile


Me, BS: 35
WxH: 36 "HAM" Hearts a mess
6yo DS (with WxH), 9 and 12yo DDs from first marriage
Discovered DH's affair in June, 2011
"I'm not having an affair, you're crazy." major gaslighting
Served with divorce papers on 2/3/12
Divorce final 7/29/2013
Living day by day, counting my blessings, loving my children
Personal Recovery well underway!
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