You have to make some decisions on what you want for this marriage. Can you negotiate a good deal for her to find a new job? Try and discuss solutions on how she plans to do 20+ hours of UA time.

Can you set an every week date night with her in the beginning?

Another thing I am struggling with is that I want to talk about the affair.

I keep feeling like we are far enough removed from it and able to talk about it like adults. I also feel like issues should be discussed and addressed instead of ignored and swept under the rug.

I think the discussion can be had without withdrawing love units on either side.

Your MB Plan is all off. The affair should have been discussed months ago.

Please write into the radio to discuss your plan. You really need a precise plan to start recovery. The plan you are in doesn't seem to be working, and the EN's for you and your wife are going unmet.

Talking about the affair today doesn't get you farther into recovery. It is going to set you back to day one because you have not had Radical Honesty with your WW.

What else is she hiding today? You have shown her radical honesty isn't necessary in the marriage!!!!

In the meantime I would sit WW down and have Dr. Harley's plan for recovery in front of her.

I would say to her we have 30 days to implement this or our marriage is over. I will file for divorce based on adultery, I will gain custoy of our children, and you and I will not be friends.

Now is the time to get it all out on the table with radical honesty from both of you, otherwise your mental state it going to keep deteriorating, and you may end up with a nervous breakdown.

Get a Plan set-up today, and it must include 20 hours of UA time with her. If that cannot happen without a change in jobs, then you let her know the job has to be negotiated because the 20 hours are nonnegotiable.

Tough

The affair was discussed months ago but I thought the plan was to avoid discussing it or bringing it up because every conversation about it withdrew love units.

I think we have been radically honest as well and I don't think she is hiding anything.

A big part of our problem is that we have 6 kids ages 10,9,4,2,2,1. That's alot of kids in diapers and twin toddlers are quite extreme bythemselves let alone with all the other kids. It makes it difficult to get that 20 hours and date night seems to happen about every other week on average. We both work full time as well. It puts alot of stress on a marriage but there isn't much we can do about it. We hope it gets easier as the kids get older but the stress is also a big factor in what led to the affair.

I am not interested in giving her ultimatums and I have some hope I am going to see some improvement as I foresee more time for SF and she I expect her to pick up some relationship advice books now too.

Maybe part of the problem too was the radical honesty in that I know so much about the affair that I am comparing it to our relationship and am jealous. I want to have what they had and while we are doing ok we are not even close to having that yet and it seems to me the stresses of our life situation are not going to allow us to get there.

The only time we have for UA is after the kids go to bed and before we do. Even if we do a date night it is usually an evening thing where we get a couple of extra hours. We have potential of about 12-14 hours of UA a week. Does watching TV together count?

No watching TV together does NOT count.

And, please, rethink wanting to "have what they had"

What they had was NOT reality. It wasn't paying bills, changing diapers, etc.

You need to find the UA time for your MARRIAGE.

And when the children get older, it doesn't get much easier. You need to cart kids off here, and there. I had a friend who told me, when I felt guilty about leaving my 6 month old to go back to work, that young children don't really care who is taking care of their needs. It's OLDER children that need their parents the most. Their problems are BIGGER.

I want her to miss me and have admiration for me and stroke my ego. I want her to talk me with that tone. I want to be her lover and not just her husband.

Is that barfy? I think they are emotional needs of admiration and affection. Maybe I am wrong.

Watching TV doesn't count but having sex does right?

UA time is spent meeting the four ENs of Conversation, Rec Comp, Affection and Sexual Fulfillment, so yes, sex counts. I don't know that 20+hours of SF would be possible, especially with 6 small children.

If you and your wife achieve a romantic marriage, she WILL miss you. You WILL get ALL of your ENs met. That's the point with MB. And it will be BETTER than what "they had" because it will be REAL.

Yeah a romantic marriage is definitely what I want.

The one need of hers I can't seem to meet is physical attractiveness. I am not unattractive and weight is not so much the issue. I just have no way to really exercise with the demands on my time. She likes a bit more muscles (like OM). Anyway when I ask her though she says I am doing a good job meeting her EN, she has no complaints.

I feel SF and admiration being better met by her would help me feel more romantic towards her. I don't think she gets the admiration part, it's something she did naturally with him and she fails even when I give her opportunities. SF I think we will be OK in after her recent trip to the dr. to help there ( her menstrual cycle was getting in the way alot).

I guess with our schedules we basically wouldn't be able to watch any tv or movies because it takes away from the limited opportunity for UA.

How about some of your UA time spent working out at home together after the kids go to bed?

Its been nearly a year since D-day so I am not sure if I should start a thread in recovery or just continue here....

She got invited to to a bar with some girl friends on Friday night and asked me how I felt about it.

I told her I wasn't comfortable with her going out to bars without me. Am I justified in this? She turned in to this thing where she says she hates that she feels she has to ask permission like she is my teenage daughter instead of my adult wife.

Your wife should have either declined or said you would be joining her, its for her to realise and act to protect the marriage boundaries.

Yes you are correct in your comments to her, she is testing you.

If she doesn't care or want to know how you feel, then why does she ask? Apparently she doesnt care about your feelings. And of course she doesn't have to ask your "permission." That is ridiculous. Tell her you are not her poppa daddy and she is not a teenager. She doesn't need your "permission" to act thoughtlessly and cruel.

You have a serious problem in your marriage. But I suspect you know that.

W and WW do not go out to bars without there husbands.

Her response shows that she does not understand boundaries or she does and refuses to put them in place because they interfere with her going out and doing things that a wife should not be doing.

I went back to your first post on this thread. With WW current attitude and past history of you knowing about two affairs I have to say that it is safe to assume she is a serial WW with more then two OM.

Here behavior makes me say it is time for a mandatory DNA paternity test.

I looked in to paternity tests and they are too expensive. I am nearly certain all the kids are mine and don't really see anything to gain from them even if I found out otherwise.

We had it out last night. I sent her an email a couple of days ago asking her how she felt if we were making any progress. The main emotional need of mine she is not meeting is SF and I told her that even when we do it it is not depositing love units like it should because it is so obvious it is a chore to her. I also said in the email that it felt to me like she still regretted the affair ending and that she did not regret having it.

So last night I asked her if she was going to reply to my email and she says that conversation scares her. She then denies me SF and says that it is a chore and she doesn't feel like it. I bring up that we need to do something to change this, but that I feel like there is no effort from her and that she takes me for granted. It comes up that it was so great for her during the affair to actually want sex again. I think this is out of line, I don't think she should be telling me how much she wanted to have sex with some other guy and how repulsive the idea of sex with me is. I get the I love you but it's not romantic so it makes sex hard.

Am I wrong to get upset at being told how great the affair was and how I am dog sheet to her? I felt it's a violation of the rule of protection and that she is completely ignoring the rule of care. There is no effort by her to deposit love units (to which she says she is too busy busting her [censored] with six kids and a full time job). I just feel taken for granted and mistreated and that I don't deserve this.

I have suggested we start the marriage builders online program but she hasn't agreed saying where would we get the money. I think her real problem is that she doesn't want to put forth any effort.

I just don't know what to do. I slept on the couch and am ready to just stop doing all the crap I do for her since she doesn't do anything for me. I guess that means I am ready to go in to withdrawal. I just hope that maybe she will miss the attention and love I have been giving her and she will stop taking me for granted and actually make some effort to try and get me back. I am sick and tired of being the only one who is trying and being rewarded by being emasculated on how undesirable it is to have sex with me. It hurts me that sex with me is such a horrible thing to her. How am I supposed to keep loving someone who treats me like that?

I am so upset about her attitude towards sex with me (that its a chore that she is pressured in to) that I have been sleeping on the couch. I am hoping that her seeing how much it hurts me will make her want to extend an olive branch.

We did sign up for the marriage builders online program.

Blaze - Dr. Harley suggests two years post d-day in Plan A.

The issue concerning paternity may be a double edge sword. I strongly encourage you to email Dr. Harley, mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and have both your wife and him speak to determine if not knowing will forever harm your romantic love building.

If you are no longer able to Plan A, then I encourage you to Plan B until your WW is willing to meet your needs.

Are you 100% making sure you have no lovebusters?
Are you 100% certain you have her needs mastered?

Try to figure out if there is any tweaking and/or lovebusters that are hampering recovery efforts.

Tough~

If she is still wayward this won't bother her one bit ... get back to your bed ...

If she is still wayward I am 100% sure it's not physical. It's just not possible as I know where she is every minute of the day.

The only way is if she still makes calls or emails at work that I have no way of knowing about. I guess I have my suspicions about this, but on the other hand I am pretty sure with out the physical aspect the OM would have lost interest unless he is doing the minimum to keep the option of rekindling the affair in the future. If there is any of this type of contact I would guess it's minimal. It might be whats damaging our relationship but there is nothing I can do about it so I try not to imagine the worst and assume there is no contact.

I had been trying to meet EN and avoid lovebusters and when I ask for feedback I get no complaints. She just constantly says she has too much on her plate with her job and the 6 kids. She says she is depressed and overwhelmed.

Hire her help ... six kids and a full time job are exhausting ... are you getting at least 20+ hours of UA time in per week?

I would suggest dramatically changing your domestic support EN ... she needs help ... meet that need for her and do it in mass quantities ... hire help or swap out babysitting with friends.

Parenting small kids is very stressful ... do what you can to make sure to ease some of that burden so you can up your UA time together.

There is no way I can conceive of that we could afford to hire her help. The only thing that might help is pre-school but I am not sure if we can afford that either. Our budget is tight with a new mortgage. The bigger house we were hoping would help relieve her stresses some and while it probably did it also creates new ones.

I thought our goal was 15 hours of UA.....we don't really get it. When the kids go to bed we mostly watch TV and I can't seem to convince her that we should be putting that time to better use by meeting each others needs. In her mind it's another burden that would take away the only free time she has. I try to give her affection and some conversation during these times. All my suggestions of what else we should do with our time is shot down by her.