Thats too bad. Is there any way she can go with you and leave the kids with her parents?

Has she ended all contact with the OM? Does the OM live anywhere close?

I think there is a point where I can see her half way through it. Yes she could potentially leave the kids with her parents, and they're totally willing and planning on helping out in that dept A LOT, even if it kills them, lol.

All contact has ended with OM and He lives in another state now.

HH, have you asked your WW to take a polygraph to confirm her version of events? Have you tested your children to confirm that they are actually your children? (You need to test both.)

Your WW is having a hard time coming back to the marriage because she is afraid that you're not the bio dad.

Time for a DNA test.

It's been confirmed that the A is over. The kids are mine. And she's been 100% truthful about the affair since true NC.

We've actually moved from a state of withdrawal, to states of conflicts to occasional states of intimacy(on an conversational level). However, regression does happen and she seems genuinely concerned about my needs, but fails to meet my most important needs period, which are absolutely my most important needs NOW more than ever and that's SF and physical touch from her. These two things help me to feel safe and secure in our relationship. She's denying me these things in the name of the pain she's felt about that part of our relationship over the past years. She feels that the little wrongs I caused her(when she admits they were often unexpressed or simply that she thought I didn't care) have accumulated to the point where she thought of me as repulsive, however that stance is definitely softening. However, I'm finding myself withdrawing from her right now because of the lack of my needs being met, my giver has been kicked into overdrive and as a result, I feel like my taker is taking over right now. I feel like I've been the noble soldier who's been bending over backwards to meet the needs that she'll allow me to meet for her, doing everything in my power to finish school and get my degree, and picking up the slack at home to make sure our family moves forward in our lives without it all falling apart or being set back.

Overall, I feel like I'm the wayward spouse here with the way I've been treated. I read other threads of WW who do everything in their power to restore love and trust in their relationships only to be met with withdrawal from their BH. It makes me entirely jealous of those BH's. I can get past this A, I can heal, I know this to be true, but I feel like everything being focused on her, rather than on 'US'. I don't feel like we can ultimately 'heal' individually, without healing each other together in the same process and her denying me affection in both forms of giving and receiving as well as SF just eats me up inside. I feel like I am suffocating with the lack of physical touch that I crave from her. I can count on one hand how many times she's touched me and her limited hugs feel like they're from a 'friend' and not a spouse.

On the good side, IC has risen dramatically and I'm discovering that it's a bigger need for me than I ever realized. And I know that's a major EN for her. So that's a positive. She's expressed to me how much she appreciates me as a Father and how hard I work at being a great father. I've recognized that I think one of the problems in our past that we can learn from is to create fertile, safe soil for IC. I think a LB that we're both guilty of is DJ's in this regard. I know I've withdrawn often in the past about my feelings and desires because I felt they would be met with hostility or criticism. And I do believe men struggle with communicating feelings moreso than women and it's even more destructive for men to have this expression met with criticism. So instead of being open, I've withdrawn on different levels in the past.

I think my biggest needs are: 1) SF, 2) Admiration 3) RC, 4) PA 5) IC
I think her biggest needs are: 1) Affection, 2) RC, 3) IC, 4) Admiration, 5) H/0

Right now, SF and Aff are at zeros. RC is limited, but exists. Admiration is low but present, and IC and H/O is at an all time high.

I've been EXTREMELY patient through all this, probably to a fault, but I have been able to limit the amount of LB's, but have not been able to do as much as I want to deposit love units directly, it's mostly been indirectly by refraining from LB's.

So I guess the root of my question, the reason I started this thread is how does one help their WW come running in and do a cannon ball into the pool of marriage rather than circling around it and dipping her toe in and out of the water when the true means(meeting her EN's) is limited?

I've poured myself into learning all I can to meet her needs, how to be a better husband and father and the results are working, it's awfully too slow for my liking though, but I still feel that she blames me for her A. I used to blame myself, but have gotten well over those feelings months ago. I feel that she is using that blame to justify her feelings and to rationalize what she did. I know she is remorseful. But are their levels of being remorseful? I feel like she's at the sorry I know what I did was wrong, I'm sorry I hurt you, I was wrong and stupid, but I'm not ready to jump into the pool with you yet because I don't even trust myself, let alone you stage.

That's where we're at in my opinion and I'm trying to get her down to the level where she's ready to act, and by acting I mean by allowing each other to meet each other's most important emotional needs.

Help?!

I'm interested in knowing how you have confirmed these things.

Or are you saying that you took her word for everything and don't wish to know more?

HH, if you are satisfied with accepting her pinky-swear about this and don't want to find out otherwise, say the word and I won't bring it up again. But you need to understand that there may be a huge, huge secret that your wife is keeping from you. Secrets about the affair will prevent a proper recovery and further erode the fragile foundation you're on right now.

She's in another state from the OM. I have had a keylogger on her computer and phone for a while. There is no more contact. There are no more secrets.

Now, I'm ready to move forward to help recover our relationship now.

HH, I thought I knew everything. You really don't. Don't allow her to manipulate the outcome of the marriage. Get the whole truth, its the best thing I ever did, even though it was the most painful thing ever for me to hear. Listen to what everyone is telling you, the truth will give you closure. One way or another. Good luck.

I have the truth, the details at this point I don't even care for. I ready to leave all that in the past. I'm more concerned about the present and the future quite frankly. I want advice on how to help my WW become a FWW akin to those other WW on these forums who are feverishly working to make their marriages work with BH who are unreceptive. I'm receptive, I want to heal this, but I want to help and support my wife in overcoming the feelings that ail her right now. I would have never believed you had you told me my wife would be where she is today just 6 weeks ago. A lot has transpired and now, I'm hoping to recover the marriage and love that our relationship desperately needs which is all prospective, not retrospective.

Will she come here and post? So we may help her?

eventually i think she would when i ask her.

eventually i think she would when i ask her. [/quote]

Did you ask her? Did you present the conditions I outlined above? Because I don't see any plan here, my friend, other than "hope." And hope is not a plan. You have to have a PLAN of action.

When is "eventually?"

Did you ask her? Did you present the conditions I outlined above? Because I don't see any plan here, my friend, other than "hope." And hope is not a plan. You have to have a PLAN of action.

When is "eventually?" [/quote]

I've been drafting a plan this weekend. I plan on presenting these things when I sense that it's an appropriate time after I'm done drafting the conditions I'd like to present. I don't just want to spring it on her at the soonest available time, because that might be the 'down' time when she's still dealing with 'withdrawal'. I'm waiting for the opportune moment when we're on a 'high'.

The best time to present it is right after the affair. There won't be any "high times" if you don't have a plan. The sooner you have a plan in place, the sooner she will come out of withdrawal. Feelings FOLLOW ACTIONS so if you are not executing a plan of action, her feelings will linger while your feelings of resentment GROW. The greatest risk here will be your feelings of resentment and without a plan, you are headed right for resentment.

i get the feeling that you are scared of her, and you can't operate on fear. She may not respond well to your plan at first, but that is no reason to wait. You need to get it out there NOW before this state of limbo and resentment gets any more entrenched. It is up to you to drive your marriage out of the ditch. Don't wait any longer! You have already waited too long.

Yeah that's pretty much all true. Had a very resentful week this past week, but was able to come out of it this weekend in a BIG way. We've had some really solid conversations and I sense a normalcy returning to her voice that hasn't been present in previous weeks. I'll see if I can't talk to her tomorrow about it. Life is hectic with the little ones, moving and adjust, but this is my top priority, and I hope it's her's too. But to be fair, we've had a plan and we've executed it nearly flawlessly since it was agreed upon up to this point of the move. Now we need to adapt and adjust with the move in place and continue forward with this new plan. I'll post it here when I'm done tomorrow.

I don't see a plan for recovery here, though. Not having a plan for recovery is a plan to FAIL. I sense that your goal is avoid conflict at any and all cost and I assure you, that would be a huge mistake. Just going along like nothing happened will lead to disaster. You need to blow this bad marriage up and kill it. You have to start over if you want to make it. And I would suggest that conflict avoidance and capitulation is part of the problem.

Okay, so here's the plan. I really am content that I have the facts of the A. Those don't bother me in the slightest right now. What does bother me IS one of the facts. I KNOW she has feelings(not sure to what extent at this point and I know it wavers for her A LOT - but when she's angry at him I feel that she's feeling closer to me, but whenever someone talks badly of him, she defends him and tells that person that she did it too) for the OM still. And what bothers me is I still feel like a consolation, a default. What triggered here sincere apology was when she found out that the OM was actively seeking to repair his relationship with his wife. Then she felt brokenhearted, remorseful and embarrassed for what she'd done. From that day on, we had about 4 of the best days in however long I can remember, it was those 4 days that allowed me to realize how important IC was for me as a EN. Also, I felt like she was actively concerned about my needs. Then she asked how I was doing one morning and I was O/H with her about it. Since even before the dday, my sex drive has diminished and nearly evaporated due to the constant conflict that I saw between us leading up to D-day. I told her that my sex drive was returning and that sent her back into withdrawal from me. Since then, we really haven't been that O/H about 'us'. We've had some great conversations, but anytime SF comes up, it kills it. We're essentially roommates, I can't touch her, or I won't touch her, because I am afraid to push her away. My #1 EN is SF. It always has been, and that's been a big part of the problem in our marriage. I'm guilty of demands and judgments in that arena of our marriage and that's what she's grappling with IMO. Is how our SF has been. From my perspective I can count on maybe 1 or 2 hands how many times she's ever 'initiated SF' with me. It seems that if I didn't ask, request, pressure, demand or guilt it out of her, we would be abstinent. I've always felt this, and I feel that the times we did have SF were mostly out of 'duty' to be the good wife and to get me to stop bothering her. I think these things are roots to where we are today in both of our situations that have lead to other LB's in our marriage. So yeah, I am scared, I'm scared of pushing her away. I'm being patient with her as I think she's still in the withdrawal stage and I'm just trying to wait it out. Things HAVE gotten better overall, I no longer think she wants to divorce, rather she's entirely apprehensive about our future together and doesn't trust herself or me. I'm scared of LBing her if I do request certain things in my plan. I'm scared she's going to stress out and make a rash decision if I load her down with more on her already full plate. I'm trying to be a good, loving husband, understand, non-demanding during this stressful time, but I'm NOT getting my needs met and she's denying me the opportunity to meet her needs in the most productive ways. So yeah, I am scared.

Being in another state, having a keylogger on her phone and computer, being with family, I'm not concerned about the NC at this point. It's been taken care of already and been established. That's where it needs to be, in the past, I don't want to bring it up again. As far as details, I'm comfortable at this point in knowing what I know about the A. Things still bother me, sometimes A LOT, but the thing that bothers me the most right now is NOT having my wife, not having my most important needs meet, SF, Affection, and not feeling like I'm #1 in her life. Right now I feel like the kids and her moving in the 'way' that we left have come first. I don't feel first still and that's what bothers me and it affects how I treat her, I withdraw and I don't know how to snap out of it sometimes. It makes me feel like I'm the WS and that my neglect, my sins, my idiosyncrasies as a spouse is the major problem and that I'm the one that has to go to Herculean lengths to make this marriage work. I see other WW on here going to those Herculean efforts for just compensation and that's what I desire, but I feel like that's my TAKER kicking in and that I'm just being selfish so I can have my needs met. Usually when I read something inspirational I break out of my funks and bad moods, but I feel scared too when I do, because I read that we shouldn't just 'press on' either because that leads to future problems. I want to move forward, but I don't know how. Where I want to start is at the end of withdrawal stage and beginning of recovery stage because that's where I think we are.

My idea is to get the MB online course and go through that together.

To follow those principles, POJA, Radical Honest, UA - meeting each others needs.

Go to a spiritual counselor weekly to have further accountability, guidance, support and spiritual strength.

Continue the EP's that we have established and look for other EP's as they become apparant to us.

Recovery is supposed to start once the affair ends, NOT weeks later when withdrawal ends. Waiting on a plan of recovery only cements her bad feelings and increases your resentment. My concern with you is that you are operating on FEAR and HOPE, which is not a plan. You are so scared of upsetting her that you are squandering your marriage.

You need to step up to the plate here and be a little more assertive. Your complacence comes across as a lack of caring.


Ok, so when will you do this? If you are not able to present a plan of recovery, then I agree you need to get some professional help doing this. When will you sign up?


But you are not following a plan for recovery. A plan for recovery is this:


Once the affair has ended, the next step is to implement the basic concepts, most especially the UA time. The program doesn't work without that step.

If you are not able to present a plan of recovery, I agree you should sign up for the online course and let the coach do it. But you shouldn't be waiting around. The longer you wait the harder it will be to recover your marriage. Don't wait!

I will start the online course with her, if she is in agreement with it this week.

NC was about 4-5 weeks ago, however, it's been about 2.5 weeks since I discovered they had each other's FB passwords and were lurking to keep up to date on each other found via my keylogger. So my time table is it's been 2.5 weeks since NC and I am assured that it has remained this way since due to the keylogger and having so much family in town this month and now having moved to another state.

You have confused her being tolerant of you with "things being better." Things are not better in your marriage at all. Just because she tolerates your presence does not mean you have a marriage. Your goal is to avoid her wrath at any and all cost, our goal is to help you save your marriage. I agree she is right to be apprenhensive about your future. I am too! There is no plan here other than hope and fear.

You need to man up, my friend. This no time to be a timid tommy.