we had our 19 year anniversary 2 weeks ago.
we still see the marriage counselor, and working the program. things are going well but there are always issues... i know complaining is bad and it never does any good but you have to let it out sometime.

i am re answering questions in the notebook of all the bad stuff in detail. she feels i am leaving out details. so i am doing it with the marriage counselor. i read her the answers and if she feels i left something out i add it in. hopefully this will be the last time.

the big boss at work approached me as i have not participated in golf outings or dinners i should and basically said i understand that you are having a difficult time at home but this is your job. so i am planning on leaving my job in a month or so as this will always be a problem that will not be able to be worked out. my wife does not feel she should have to attend any of my events as it was my issue not hers. so no solution so far. currently dieing a slow death at work..

any other job in the same field would probably have the same requirements so it is quite the problem

the next issue would be what if i dont get another job. or come close to making what i was. resentment on both sides, i can hear it now ....you put yourself in this position....

then what if this marriage doesnt work with the added strain ....and she says no... no wife, no job, no house, nice.... stressful.....

we spend a tremendous amount of time together, but no sex. i mean really... am i that repulsive? am i that bad in bed? does she still hate me?

i am not POJAing anymore. i just agree to everything. yes i know .... it doesnt work... it doesnt make things any better in the long run.

i love her. im stressed. i feel that she will never trust me. i just want to be married to my wife.

Are you doing coaching through MB?

Have you heard this clip about complaining in a M?
Radio clip on complaining
Segment #2

Really no POJA? How do you expect to recover?

Here's some more clips. Please let us know what you think.
Radio clip on SF
Radio clip on too much or not enough SF
Segment #2

Also besides not following POJA you're deciding not to follow PORH, the policy of radical honesty?

Here's another clip of the importance of POJA and PORH.
Radio clip on POJA and PORH at 6:30

Also why don't you email the good doctor himself and ask? He encourages people who have questions about his program?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

Are you just forgetting some things or is it trying to spare her feelings by not bringing up old garbage?


Why do you think your wife would be uncomfortable with you going on these golf outings? While you may, understandably, think she should just "get over it" that really isn't your call is it? It sounds as though you've made a very good effort at respecting her requests, to the point of nearly losing your job over it.


Understood. Is there any other field that you could get into?


Understood. Have you told her that?


You're probably not repulsive and it probably isn't about technique, rather the emotional connection may just be a bit thin these days. Do you expect all intimacy to lead to sex? Laughing a bit here, I'm sure you'd prefer it to lead that way, but just wonder if such intentions or hopes are written all over your face and kind of throwing things off a bit.


Are you afraid to disagree because you think she'll just throw in the towel?

Here is the article Dr. Harley wrote for you.

How to Make Your Wife Happy

Read this with your wife and see what she thinks.

Trust is an emotional response to certain conditions. The condition is you have to act a certain way for quite a long time. Either you aren't acting the right way, or it hasn't been long enough yet. Be patient; it will come (if you are acting trustworthy). And, believe it or not, you can have a good marriage without trust. The good marriage can come first, and the feeling of trust can come later.

One problem we often see is people wanting their husband or wife to trust them in bad situations. This is a mistake, since trust is an emotional response to people acting a certain way. An example: suppose I go on a business trip with a lady coworker, and ask my wife to trust me. I am acting in an untrustworthy manner, so it's a mistake to expect my wife to feel the feeling of trust when I act this way. I can instead expect her to suddenly start feeling DISTRUST if I even suggest such a thing!

Another example: I change my email account password and don't tell my wife. A couple days later she tries to get into my account and discovers she can't. She asks if I've changed the password, and what it is. Instead of telling her what it is, I tell her to "trust me." It's a mistake for me to expect her to trust me, since I'm not acting in a way that causes the feeling of trust. She will never trust me as long as I act like that!

Act right and be patient. It will come. In the meantime, work on the complaints that the two of you have about your marriage.

Here is Dr. Harley's article about this:

The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage?

Again, read this article with your wife, and ask her what she thinks.

It's scary that you think complaining is bad. Marriage Builders teaches that complaining is good. Criticism, disrespect, angry outbursts: those are bad. But complaints are good. Talking about the problems you both have, the unmet needs, the love busters, that is good!

Are you getting involved in learning about Marriage Builders? Are you using this program? Because you missed a core point, here.

I'm worried your counselor is distracting and contradicting Marriage Builders instead of helping.

You know, I skip about 70-80% of our work events because Prisca is not enthusiastic. Even though she's not here, it affects her if I go. So I check each time to see how she feels.

People just think I'm antisocial. I still get my work done, they still keep paying me, and it's all good.

Why does your boss think you "should" go to parties? Why is this part of your job description?

hi jerkyboy. i post to your wife, so when i saw your thread was posted to, i had a look. i was very touched by this post. i could hear the honesty in it.

but then we got to this post (red my comments):


sorry, bub. that's the way things work when you betray someone to the core. you can't give up. chickadee doesn't deserve that, and i don't think you really want that. you may be dismayed at the amount of work ahead of you, but it DOES pay off.

the point of MB is not "M at all costs." it is to create a romantic, harmonious M for BOTH of you. you are currently reaping your old crop. you need to resew your M so that a new crop can flourish. and don't ever ask again for your BW to "trust [me]." you aren't trustworthy, and haven't been for years. but...you can be earning your way back into her heart.

you guys haven't had sf for a long time, and it is the intimacy of sf that is the glue that holds a M together. why don't you get out the glue gun tonight and see how you feel after?

vets, if i'm off base about this, please let me know! i don't want to steer JB wrong, but felt moved enough to post to him.

Great clip on complaining.
Radio clip on how to complain

During our first few months post D-Day, the one thing that really got through to me sometimes was my H's admitting to me his deep need and desire for SF with me. He would tell me of his desire with this...look...on his face, as though he fully expected me to practically laugh derisively in his face. Yet he wanted this so much. To me, it showed humility.

Because he was willing to confess to me how deeply he longed for this connection with me, it touched a chord in me. I admired his openness. Something in his words and tone caused me to look at him a little differently, leading me to wanting SF with him, too.

All the while, he was absolutely dead-on with MB, adhering as closely as he understood and learned. So he was open with his affection and we did many RC things together. We spent a great deal of time together.

Letty's right. Many women DO want SF with their husbands, but post-A things are different. We wait for the first indication. We want that affection without strings attached.

While I'm not a long-term vet, I think it was an excellent post, Letty.

I'm sure it takes some longer than others to get back in the swing of things with SF, but if both parties are committed to the recovery plan, needs have to be met on both sides.

JB, it is EXTREMELY HARMFUL to your marriage to not POJA.

Letty's right: this is NOT marriage at all costs - and resentment is going to build up very quickly if you continue to just be a yes-man. If you do not have a marriage that is better than pre-affair, recovery will not work.

thank you, happy, for your kind words :O)


yes, i agree to. to get personal, i, of course, was repulsed inside by the fact that MY H had put his you-know-what in some slag, BUT...

when he reached out to me sf-ly, i responded to him, because of the same reason LWFH did. if he had never made that move, i probably wouldn't have due to my anger, resentment and disgust, even though sf is one of my top ENs. i still thank him for that today, because we may have ended up D 6 years ago if he hadn't. that was what held us together through all the hard, hard work.

so...how did last night go?

So what are you going to do for chickadee with this new NC from OW?

I spent about two hours pouring out my heart and falling all over myself in a post that got lost when I went up a page to look at a previous post. That is tough and tough to try to do again. So here goes.

I can�t seem to get it right. As soon as we start doing well we hit a bump and bang. One step forward two steps back. I am tired. My wife is very tired, I can see it in her face.
I am an open book, emails, phone computer text, constant communication� I am diligent in these matters.

Today I got a mass email from a woman I had an affair with. It was announcing her new email. It went to my work email and I told my wife right away. She was devastated. I am sure it was no accident. I have precautions in place with blocked numbers and emails but this was new address and it got through. I never used my work email or phone but after the affair was ended she tried to contact me through work. This led to a �cease and assist� letter that we sent her.

BLAH�BLAH�BLAH��WORDS �WORDS� it�s like some stupid day time drama am I am the king gorilla. IN THE END�.i hurt my wife� I hurt her in the worst way� I betrayed her..trust..love �her reality. I created the wound. The wound may heal but there will always be a scar, and outside forces can open that wound without batting an eye, with no regard to the pain it causes. I AM THE SCAR. I am the constant reminder.

My wife is on edge. She says�� I can�t live like this� I don�t blame her� who can? She knows it will happen again� the gorilla hangs over our heads ready to fall on us and crush us� a letter �an email �a phone call�how do you control the things you cannot control? I do not know what to do?...help

I REPEAT�.
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� Triggers. there is always something. as soon as everything is going great there is a trigger. its insane. crushing. heartbreaking. hurtful. painful. distance building. headache giving. dont want to eat. eat to much. all consuming. i see the pain in my wife and it is like a sledgehammer to the back of my head.

i think i said this before but, seeing my wife hurt is horrible. knowing i caused it, rips out my heart

i know she is thinking either stop the triggers or let her go and walk away because the pain will stop if i leave. it will hurt in the beginning but then it will be over and no more triggers. if i am there then there will always be triggers.
i am the cause of her continued pain. gorilla.

i want to start building our lives. it always seems within reach and that gorilla comes in our lives with his gun and pulls that trigger. BANG and i gave him the bullets.

i hate the gorilla�
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We are still doing the marriage builders course , counselor two times a week and speaking with Steve Harley. We are going through the whole Harley family� I wouldn�t be surprised if we were invited to thanksgiving this year. ( steve is very good, highly recommend him)

The gorilla is the same � different but the same

I am working on my new plan to make things better, but here I am again. Quit the job? Move away? I don�t know what to do.

It seems easy when it is someone else�s problem, impossible when it is your own�.

It has been a year and a half since D day. ..no one can dance with gorilla that long� eventually it will eat our hope and our souls�

�help�

I have read all the posts and working on my inner gorilla.

I am trying to create an environment so that hopefully my wife can love me.

Can you move? Is this something she's enthusiastic about? Dr. H does recommend a fresh start after an affair?

Have you brainstormed with her?

What does she need?

BTW good job on letting her know.

Have you seen this?
The critical importance of UA

Aldo what about a new job?