JAH,

Here's the thing. It's not about just the POSOM. This guy is faceless because he's just one of many. Tomorrow it will be someone else. And so on. Affairs are an addiction. But in her case, the addiction is not the particular man she's with today, but whoever the affair partner du jour is. She is showing no signs of breaking her pattern or changing her behavior. She's heaping abuse on you that is intolerable. Why that it?

Your spouse reminds me of Starfish's spouse. She has complete disregard for you, and she is in complete denial. She's not fit for marriage. I'm sorry that you were roped in by her.

Suddenly everyone is jumping on my case because I read the SAA book and followed directions. Or maybe I followed the directions wrong and out of context. Or maybe "it doesn't apply at all to my sitch" (since it's a serial cheater) so I should throw the book out.

I still appreciate all of you trying to help me, and I appreciate every single one of your 2x4's. I welcome those 2x4's. But if some of you feel you are wasting your time on me, I can't change your opinion. By all means, go help others on the forum if you feel I'm a lost cause. Maybe you can post up my thread for others to see as "THE WRONG WAY TO HANDLE A SERIAL CHEATER."

Unfortunately, I am probably just as confused as my wife. Maybe because my situation is "unique", some of the advice I have gotten on this forum has been inconsistent also. For example: Read SAA and now I should throw it out. Keep your wife out of the apartment and then take her back in. Have her join the forums and then don't let her know about it. File a lawsuit against the OM and then it's only going to be a distraction.

I feel I really need a better set plan here; I am trying my best. I don't intend to 'pick and choose' what MB concepts suit me. I wish there was a book on 'Serial Cheaters.' If there is one, let me know. Until then, my options to get some clarity are going 'by the book', going by the forum, or using the 'coaching service' with Dr. Harley. I decided I'm going for number three.

So, for now I am going to throw the SAA book out (maybe donate it?). I'm going to put the HNHN and LB books to the side too for now. I am going back to plan B (and let my wife know it's because she broke the conditions). Then I'll wait for Dr. Harley's advice. I will let those of you still following along also know what he says after I meet. For those that think I've wasted your time, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I still appreciate your help regardless.

Yes, you have wasted alot of folks time - that is the truth, not a feeling. And yes, you can change our minds by getting serious about the program. We only feel like we have wasted our time when we are more serious than you are. And the fact that you are reconciling despite the fact that your wife has not met your conditions indicates someone who is obviously not serious.

And that is ok. It is your marriage to squander. I only hope others can look at this situation and understand how NOT to manage Plan B.

I want others to understand that when you go into Plan B and give your WS conditions for reconciliation, that you must be serious about those conditions. If you are not serious - as you are not - then your WS will not take you seriously either.

In order to come out of Plan B, the WS must meet the conditions given in Plan B. For example, on page 81 in SAA, the plan B letter states:

"AS SOON AS YOU ARE WILLING TO PERMANENTLY SEPARATE FROM GREG AND ARE WILLING TO FOLLOW THE MEASURES THAT WERE SUGGESTED TO ENSURE TOTAL SEPARATION, I WILL BE WILLING TO DISCUSS OUR FUTURE TOGETHER.."

See? Those are conditions.

Wouldn't we conclude that there are conditions to be met here? And that if those conditions ARE NOT MET, that reconciliation discussions are not held?

I am trying to be a thinker here and I think the idea is that...the WS actually MEETS THE CONDITION.

When the WS does not meet the condition, then a continuation of Plan B is warranted. Serial cheater OR NOT. That is how Plan B is conducted.


I gave you the Marriage Builders plan and you ignored it completely. I told you to send her a Plan B letter, give her conditions and reconcile only after she has met your conditions. She will not meet your conditions yet you are still reconciling as if she HAS.

There is no better plan than Marriage Builders.

How about posting your Plan B letter here and lets see if she has met your conditions?

I show 16 pages of discussion about the concept of Plan B and that concept has been entirely ignored. You don't have to call up Steve Harley to pay him to find out if there are CONDITIONS in Plan B. That is a very basic, well known fact on this forum. You don't need to call Dr Harley, Steve Harley or Santa Claus to understand this concept. Serial cheater or not, it is the same plan.

here

jah, I truly do understand your frustration as to the advice that you've been given. I think a lot of that stems from the fact that most of us don't believe for one nanosecond that you should spend any amount of time on trying to fix a completely broken woman. And frankly pal, that's what she is. Broken. If everything you have been telling us is true, then IMO there is no reason whatsoever to even consider recovering this train wreck. It's not often that we get a sitch like yours that has the BH still wanting to try and make things work. I wouldn't even attempt what you are trying to do.

But you have your answer. She called him again on day one. She's not serious, and you know it. Get out of this farce of a marriage. You deserve much better than she can ever provide.

You are all about us. She is all about her. Do you really want to spend your life with someone like that?

Jah,

She broke the EP's you put into place on the first day. Time to get into Plan B and let her go. You deserve a wife who will join you in the Marriage Builder's Program. She refuses to join you and regardless of her "withdrawal", if she really wanted to save the marriage and make up for her adultery, she would never had called her POSOM.

Time for a very dark Plan B. Don't worry about what she does or doesn't do after you Plan B. Lock her out and protect yourself from her abuse. You deserve better, Jah.

TinT

We know you're confused. And you desperately want to believe this can be saved. I don't think your WW is in withdrawal over her OM. She's in withdrawal over the notion that her way of life is ending.

Heck. She's not even in withdrawal because she contacted her OM as soon as you agreed to take her back!! She's brazen entitled and quite frankly SICK to put you through this.

And you want to take off to another island to babysit her for 6 weeks? NO. Proceed with your divorce. This lady is not marriage material and when you give yourself major time in plan B, you will see it clearly too.

You've been with this lady for so long, you have no idea what a healthy relationship looks and feels like. Pull back, close the door and focus on YOUR recovery.

I could not contact my IM, but I am back in plan B anyways. Going back to dark. I messed up; I admit it. Did not mean to mess up; did not mean to be an enabler; I just simply didn't follow directions. I also find myself calm through all this; someone said to 'emotionally detatch yourself', and I feel that way already.

I already filed for divorce; I'm just going to let it continue through. I'm not sure what the meeting with Dr. Harley is for anymore, but I am going to talk to him anyways to see what he says. Maybe it will bring some closure; if he says there's no hope, I'll take his word.

So basically, I'm in plan B. Going to head right through to divorce. Thanks for your help, every case is a learning case, right? Hopefully whoever has been following along at least learned something here.

Jah, good to hear you coming to terms with who your wife really is. I know it is excruciating. And maybe there's a part of you that thinks you've done something wrong...you've said a few times that you want to know you've done everything you could. But you have to accept what you can't change...and your wife is someone you can't change. This is really just her nature, unfortunately, not anything more.

I have had to face that with my WH as well. I spoke to Dr. Harley on the radio program and he told me that the problem is really that my H just didn't "turn out." He doesn't do what a husband should do to provide care, be responsible, etc. He doesn't even do what a father should do. And I have had to find peace in my own personal recovery. I've found a lot of help in reading about co-dependency and you might appreciate it as well. Melodie Beatty's "Codependent No More" and "The language of letting go" are really helpful to get you to see ways in which you've been letting someone else's chaos become your own by trying to rescue a person from their own poor choices or personal nature. You can't change another person. Oh, it hurts though, to lose all of your hopes and dreams!

Please stay on MB through your plan B and personal recovery...there is so much to be gained here. Marksaysay, Scotland, indiegirl, Caracal (and I'm sure many others!), all have been on through extended plan Bs and personal recoveries, and this forum is really helpful when you're on the roller coaster. Because there will be a lot of guilt days, a lot of anger days, you still have to go through withdrawal and the stages of grief yourself. Peace to you, jah, for having to get to this point.

I agree with this posters statement. Jah I can relate also.
My wife had many behaviors that resembled an alcoholic. She is the adult child of an alcoholic and has emotional disorders. I was married for 10 years.
When she decided to have her affair she also came back (I couldn't stop her like you can because the court gave her full access to the marital home);
She promise no contact and lied. She later admitted to contacting OM after OM BW texted me asking me to tell my whore wife to stop contacting her husband. My wife lied through her teeth at first then said she missed him and had to say goodbye. (that was december. I think she's at his house today)

I mention the above so you can see its not that uncommon. I was with her for so long that I did not know what normal was. Her emotional disorder created a bizarre life of paranoia and other issues. When I requested a Custody Evalauation outsiders looked at both of us and saw that she was mentally ill.
AlAnon Promises that if we follow the 12 steps we will receive "enlightenment" and that "sanity will be restored"
Because when we get in unhealthy relationships sometime we loose common sense and seek out more of the toxic poison from the relationship That is not sane!

"Like" HDW

Jah, you'll do fine in Plan B.

The appointment is still a good idea, because no one knows more about serial cheats than the Harleys. You can be advised on your standards, conditions and how to keep the bar high too.

What you will discover is that a large part of the early stages of Plan B is wrapping your head around all that has happened.

then you focus on you

Some excellent articles by Dr. Harley.
How The Co-dependency is ruining Marriages
Control Dependency and Identity

I've been through this, including the FR. They can be experts at giving us what we want to hear, even seeming to demonstrate what we want for a time. The moment I discovered my WH was a serial cheater I filed for D and haven't looked back. He had plenty of opportunity to turn things around but he didn't. IMHO I did everything to save my M but I refuse to be a doormat and continue to receive ill treatment. I would rather spend the rest of my life single than live like that. And you know what? I may be alone but my life is peaceful, there's no drama in it.

You are a wonderful man that deserves a GOOD M, not a hustler that is playing you. Don't cast your pearls before swine.

1. Plan b
2. Continue divorce procedures
3. Grieve your "loss"
4. Start dating

You tried to climb an impossible mountain and failed. Its good enough that you tried. No six week rehab session with her. Youre a 35 y o pediatrician with a great future. 95% off bs who are in your exact position are no where as well of as you. You are lucky.

No, you do NOT start dating while still married! That makes you stoop to her level. We are to exemplify boundaries! Please stick to MB advice!

Of course after you are divorced! Remember the vultures