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**edit**
Last edited by Fireproof; 08/03/12 08:56 PM. Reason: TOS disrespectful
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Please don't start up threads chastising other board members. If you have an issue with a poster's posting style, kindly notify the moderators and let us handle it. We are the board moderators and that is our job, not yours.
Thank you
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OUCH! I apologize fireproof. I meant no disrespect, I was just making an observation.  It makes me a little nervous to actually ask a question here....that's all 
Last edited by 4tomorrow; 08/03/12 09:23 PM.
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OUCH! I apologize fireproof. I meant no disrespect, I was just making an observation. It makes me a little nervous to actually ask a question here....that's all Hi 4Tomorrow! If you click "notify" and tell the moderators what's going on, they can help you. I didn't know about that button til a couple of weeks ago! Also, there's a procedure to follow if you have a problem. It's on the "tips" or "faqs" or something forum for new posters. It really helped me understand the policies & procedures for stuff like that. I'll try to figure out how to link it here.... Welcome aboard! You'll get great advice (and some lively debate too!)  ~ Zhamila
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Thanks Zhamila,
I will go back and read again....I seem to be getting zapped if I voice an opinion.
My question is, If you are in an emotionally abusive marriage and your spouse refuses to meet your needs because he feels you don't meet his so "why should he", how do you get them met? I have heard people say that God will meet your needs but that is spiritual, what about earthly? Can a girlfriend offer enough support?
I have been here quite a while without posting and have read most of the resources so I kinda know what should happen, but he refuses.
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My question is, If you are in an emotionally abusive marriage and your spouse refuses to meet your needs because he feels you don't meet his so "why should he", how do you get them met? 4tomorrow, the entire purpose of meeting emotional needs is to create a romantic relationship. They are not essential needs like air or water or food. So, if your spouse is not meeting them, you certainly would not want others to meet them because that is what leads to affairs. If a spouse refuses to meet your needs, or you are in an emotionally abusive marriage, Dr Harley recommends a separation and ultimately, a divorce.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thank you for your response Melodylane,
I guess I haven't read that part yet, I will go back and read more.
Last edited by 4tomorrow; 08/04/12 12:05 AM. Reason: changed subject line.
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This might help also. A wise poster said this. When to Call It Quits - Part 1 In addition to this excellent article here are some excellent radio clips on this. Please listen to these radio clips on what are the reasons for divorce. Radio clip at 5:45 When to call it quits Segment #2
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Wow BrainHurts, those are great radio clips! Thank you for posting.
Re: Separation, I will only add that I want to be "sure" that I've done everything I can possibly do to save my marriage, so separation/divorce would only be a consideration after exhausting every other possibility (at least for me). This being said, Dr. Harley sometimes recommends a Plan A when you still have love left for your spouse, then Plan B to preserve that love throughout a separation, in hopes that your spouse will come around and you'll actually be willing to try again.
One thing Steve Harley encouraged me to do was to journal my interactions with my H. I could see whether I was doing "my job" meeting his needs & avoiding love busters, and could also track my emotional reactions to our progress (or lack thereof). And I could work on improving myself.
Whether my marriage turns around or not, I am determined to become a better person.
Have you written to Dr. & Joyce Harley on the radio program? Their answers to my questions have always been SO helpful and encouraging...it's like getting a gift specially made just for me! You might consider reaching out to then.
Hugs to you!! (((4Tomorrow)))
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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Thank you for the links. From Dr. Harley's letter to someone...... The most common first response to a spouse�s neglect is to complain: �I�d like it if you�d be more affectionate.� A complaint is an effort to communicate a problem without being demanding, disrespectful, or angry. It�s a notification there�s an opportunity to make deposits (or avoid withdrawals) from the Love Bank. There�s nothing wrong with that initial approach to the problem of neglect since it�s simply communicating a need.
But when that doesn�t produce results, mistakes usually follow. The first mistake is to criticize: �Why do you ignore me? What�s wrong with you?� A criticism adds demands, disrespect, and/or anger to the complaint. The message of an unmet emotional need is buried under layers of abuse. Instead of creating a cooperative partner, it creates an adversary.
When criticism fails, and it almost always does, the next step is usually to stop meeting the other spouse�s emotional needs: �If you won�t meet my emotional needs, I won�t meet yours.� And that usually means sex. It seems fair at the time, but as with criticism it usually doesn�t work and leads to a steady deterioration of the relationship. Spouses start living independent lives, sleeping in different rooms, going on separate vacations, having separate friends, separate checking accounts, separate recreational activities � they become ships passing in the night. WOW!!!! That totally sums up my life. I am sitting here fighting tears, hoping my kids don't see me. Even if my husband wakes up, is it worth saving? Why does life have to be so hard? 
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Re: Separation, I will only add that I want to be "sure" that I've done everything I can possibly do to save my marriage, so separation/divorce would only be a consideration after exhausting every other possibility (at least for me). This being said, Dr. Harley sometimes recommends a Plan A when you still have love left for your spouse, then Plan B to preserve that love throughout a separation, in hopes that your spouse will come around and you'll actually be willing to try again. This is the exact plan Dr Harley outlines in his article, When to Call it Quits. First Plan A for a short time and then Plan B. Plan A is recommended for only 30 days. Of course, all bets are off if there is abuse, and in that case he recommends immediate separation. Here is his article: When to Call It Quits - Part 1
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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4tomorrow, can you give more details about your situation? How long married? Any kids? Any affairs? What have you done to try to resolve this with your husband?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Ok here is some of my story. This is my 2nd marriage. I was first married at 20 and knew before the honeymoon was over that something was "off". Got home and my husb of 22 days, told me he had made a mistake and wanted out. Turns out his girlfriend didn't like him being married. He was with her before during and after.
I was too young to know that I could have had an annulment so at the advice of my pastor, filed for divorce.
My husband and I met the next year ( in case you are wondering, we didn't sleep together before marriage) and we have been married for 27 years. 2 wonderful young adult children, beautiful home and everything material we could want.
I guess the biggest problem is that I have always been a bit afraid of my husband. I didn't know how to ask him things without making him mad or getting a long lecture as to why I was wrong to want whatever I asked.
About 3 and half years ago I tried telling him we needed more from our marriage and got told "he wasn't mean, what more could I want?"
Went downhill fast after that.
As for affairs....yes, I had an emotional affair for almost three years with an unmarried man at my gym.
We broke it off when he said that I couldn't have emotional support from him and nothing else. He wanted all or nothing. My husband knew about it and was jealous but wouldn't do anything to stop it. Just kept telling me that it looked bad.
After it was over both of our families, our pastor and friends were told about it.
That is part of our story and all I have time to post now. Sorry if it is too long.
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Ok here is some of my story. This is my 2nd marriage. I was first married at 20 and knew before the honeymoon was over that something was "off". Got home and my husb of 22 days, told me he had made a mistake and wanted out. Turns out his girlfriend didn't like him being married. He was with her before during and after.
I was too young to know that I could have had an annulment so at the advice of my pastor, filed for divorce.
My husband and I met the next year ( in case you are wondering, we didn't sleep together before marriage) and we have been married for 27 years. 2 wonderful young adult children, beautiful home and everything material we could want.
I guess the biggest problem is that I have always been a bit afraid of my husband. I didn't know how to ask him things without making him mad or getting a long lecture as to why I was wrong to want whatever I asked.
About 3 and half years ago I tried telling him we needed more from our marriage and got told "he wasn't mean, what more could I want?"
Went downhill fast after that.
As for affairs....yes, I had an emotional affair for almost three years with an unmarried man at my gym.
We broke it off when he said that I couldn't have emotional support from him and nothing else. He wanted all or nothing. My husband knew about it and was jealous but wouldn't do anything to stop it. Just kept telling me that it looked bad.
After it was over both of our families, our pastor and friends were told about it.
That is part of our story and all I have time to post now. Sorry if it is too long. What EP's have you put in place to avoid an affair in the future?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I am sitting here fighting tears, hoping my kids don't see me. Even if my husband wakes up, is it worth saving? Why does life have to be so hard? (((((((((((4Tomorrow)))))))))))) You are in the right place to get the help you need. I'm so sorry dear. 
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out."
Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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EP's
Not totally clear about what constitutes EP's but,
I am being honest with my husband about how much I told my friend about my marriage and the things we talked about and places we went together.
Friend now goes to another gym so we are not working out together.
Leaving my phone unlocked so my husband can look at my email and texts if he likes. (doesn't care so far)
Husband knows where I am going when I go out.
One question about honesty: Should I tell my husband when I am missing my EA? Sometimes I am very sad and lonely and have no one to talk to. Should I bring it up or just be quiet and not rock the boat?
haha writing that just now; my stomach hurts, I am afraid of my husband (dumb I know) He has never physically hit me, but the emotional gun he has lays me out quite often.
How do I get over being afraid of him. I have brought it up in the past and got told that it was "stupid".
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4tomorrow, I would take the time to learn the program and then sell it to him. You can't sell something you don't understand and if you understand this program you can sell the benefits to your husband. Your husband stands to benefit the most from this program, but he won't know that unless you show him the benefits.
I would get the book Surviving an Affair and Lovebusters. Listen to the radio show every day and get a good grasp on the program. THEN you can go to him and sell it to him.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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As for affairs....yes, I had an emotional affair for almost three years with an unmarried man at my gym.
We broke it off when he said that I couldn't have emotional support from him and nothing else. He wanted all or nothing. My husband knew about it and was jealous but wouldn't do anything to stop it. Just kept telling me that it looked bad. It doesn't sound like you told your husband the truth about the affair, which is why he would have said it "looked bad." Did you tell him it was just a "friendship" and deny, deny, deny the romantic aspect of your affair? Your story doesn't ring true to an objective observer, so I have no doubt he doesn't really believe it either. That would explain his odd reaction and his anger. I don't think I have EVER encountered a three year EA that didn't go physical so I find that very hard to believe. There is no other reason a single man would bother with a married woman. It would be a nooky call and nothing more significant than that. If this is the case, then a huge part of the problem is that your marriage can never develop intimacy when there are lies between you. Dishonesty ruins marriages. Here is what Harley has written on this: Radical honesty is so important in marriage that there is a much greater risk of divorce when a couple is not radically honest, than there is when a couple reveals very hurtful information to each other. In other words, you face a much greater risk of divorce by keeping those email letters secret than you do by revealing them. That's why we always recommend full disclosure. In other words, if you want to have a great marriage, then honesty has to be the first step. It sounds to me like your marriage never recovered from your affair because the first steps were never taken. The first steps are radical honesty and ending contact with the OM. If you still go to the same gym, you haven't really ended contact or discontinued the method of contact. Gyms are great pick up joints, so that should be the last place you would want to go if you wanted to prevent a repeat.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks MelodyLane, I am getting the books, actually I found someone that has 7 books and two workbooks that they no longer want. Hopefully picking them up this week. Just to clarify, the other man has changed gyms so we don't see each other there. He also goes to a different church and we have no friends in common so not likely to run into him anywhere. I answered my husband's questions: He asked if I was attracted to other man, Yes, somewhat. What did we do together? Walked, worked out, drank coffee, rode bikes. Mostly public places. Any physical contact? mostly hugged when leaving each other. Any sexual contact? Kissed him once near end of friendship. (that is when it got complicated and had to end) Still wondering about telling husband when I am missing other man, won't that just hurt him more or should I be quiet until it passes?
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