Hi All,<BR>I was just wondering if feeling so guilty about what has ocurred can mask your true feelings of love???<P>My W and I have been talking alot lately. We even had an all day date this weekend. Good moments and a few sad moments. It is almost impossible not to bring "us" up into the conversation. Anyway I talked with her yesterday and she said she was disappointed with our time together.<P>She said she had expected to feel overwhelmed with feelings of wanting to return to our marriage so that she knew it was the right thing to do. When she didn't get that feeling, it threw her for a loop. She didn't say it wasn't positive but it just didn't produce the emotions she expected. <P>Is this a guilt thing??? She still continues to say "Why would you want me back after what I did?" On the other hand, She told me she was still in love with me but only when asked. I was really bugged out about this and told her and she said I was over analyzing this and it wasn't a big deal.<P>What do you think????<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P>

Rutger,<BR>I getting the same responses except for the I Love You.<P>Hang in there.

Hi there<BR>perhaps she is feeling the same as you are expecting too much too soon? Just a thought. Could also be due to guilt, I know my h has tried really hard to sweep everthing under the carpet due to guilt feelings, he makes as if it never happened and gets really mad when I occasionally bring "her" up, I am trying really hard not to bring her up but sometimes, the feelings just overwhelm me and he does not seem to understand, instead of comforting me as I would like he gets mad at me, he fels that if she is out of his life and he no longer thinks of her why do I ? Go figure ?<P>Jenny<P>------------------<BR>Where have all the cowboys gone ?<BR>Paula Cole<P><BR>

Rutger,<BR>Guilt is a powerful emotion. Your W appears to be ruled by her emotion which is why we make errors. Yes, her guilt is the reason she wants to stay distant. My W is experiencing the same thing but does not know it. I have given this considerable thought even before her first affair. I always wondered why people including myself did what we do and why. Reading secular books and the Bible and exploring why I truly felt the way I do along with asking others why they do what they do has resulted in my conclusion that we concentrate to much on our feelings. Our feelings are only a tiny part of a much bigger picture. God's will is supreme and is much bigger than our feelings.<P>Yes, God created those feelings for us to enjoy but only in light of doing His will. It took experiencing those feelings in light of His will for me to truly understand. For those who haven't experienced feelings in light of His will have yet to experience a high that greatly exceeds the high they currently feel. <P>Her guilt is God working on her. However, it will continue to be a negative thing until she allows God to show her how to make it into a positive. I am struggling with how to express that to my W. Her guilt won't allow her to see anything good in everything that comes out of my mouth.<P>Praying for you my friend. MONDO HUG!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

RWD,<BR>Still hanging..... Thanks<P>Jenny,<BR>Long time, Good to hear from you. Yes, I do expect alot I guess. That is slowly subsiding because I know this is a long process. But why would she expect alot and then not get it. If she had the mind set to be overwhelmed with emotion then why wouldn't she be?? In her mind she wants it so would she make it that way?? There I go, over analyzing too much....... thanks<P>Prof,<BR>Thanks for your reply. I guess her guilt is driving her to do what she is doing. I can only hope that she is spending time with me because of other reasons and not out of guilt or pity for me. She has said she feels so bad for doing this to me and she feels obligated to do things for me. Is that bad?? I want her to do them because she wants to, not out of obligation. <P>I can appreciate the religious aspects of emotions and feelings towards others. I have not been a religious man for a long time, True I have my beliefs but I do not bring them out in times of need. Thank you for your prayers.....

I think when your wife says "Why do you want me back after what I have done"? Is her way of trying to find out what you love about her and why you want to be with her. She could be scared that you are setting her up for failure. Meaning she gives herself back to you and the marriage, only to have you turn her away or get revenge in the long run. Just some thoughts of something that I experienced years and years ago!

I definitely think that the intense feelings of guilt our spouses have is one of the roadblocks to their wanting to recommit.<P>In my case, just the sight of me causes my H an incredible amount of guilt and pain. I barely weigh 90 lbs. now and look like a "refugee" (his words). He told me this last weekend, then added, "It's all my fault". I am at a total loss as to how to respond. Yesterday, he made me dinner, then told me it really makes him feel better to see me eat.<P>So, I guess the best thing we can do right now is try to not make them feel guilty (which is a major lovebuster). It's hard though. As in my case, I can't just go out and gain 10 lbs!!

Rutger, when my h decided to recommit to our marriage he expected that from that minute on everything would look perfect instantly. He started counselling with me and expected to have all his answers and suggestions on what to do right from the moment he entered the counselors office.<BR>When he didn't, he was discouraged. It didn't seem like his decision had worked. Maybe it had been the wrong decision...?<BR>We had a long talk and it didn't seem to be getting anywhere.<BR>I had to remind him then and many times after that things don't happen just like that. That it took a long time to get in this situation and it will take as much time to get out of it.There is no instant fix just because we want to, as much as we want too. Untill your wife understands that she will probably still feel a bit discouraged by the results and the slowness of the process.<BR>But after she does, things will seem to go much faster.<P>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

The short answer: YES.<P>In my case, and for many, I think, the self-examination that follows an affair is very painful, and cannot be faced early on, nor all at once. It is a process. <P>I think this is why a lot of betrayers frustrate their spouses by not wanting to talk about 'it', wanting everybody to just 'get over it' or 'move on'. For the most part, they're not yet ready emotionally to grapple with the very deep feelings of guilt and failure and inadequacy and 'feeling like a fool' that often follow having an affair.... especially once they kind of return to their senses and realize what they almost threw away (ergo, they *resist* recognizing what they've nearly lost, because that is followed closely by all those painful realizations that go with it... this is a pile o' pucky big enough to choke a horse... and it's all interconnected...).<P>Long story short - all in good time. Most betrayers block out examining their actions too closely until they're more ready to face the pain of it. And I think a part of that is 'denying' that there's great love left for their spouse, or that there's a good marriage worth saving - because admitting that to themselves opens Pandora's Box, and all the ugly demons come flying out.<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

Trying24give,<BR>Good thought, When she says that I just tell her I love her and it's that simple. When she is with me I am happy, when she isn't with me I am sad. She never responds after that. I have also made it very clear that I will not leave her if she comes back, I told her that I have already had numerous openings to bug out of this and I haven't, She said she is starting to see that.<P>Sid,<BR>It is tough not to look sad or "skinny". I can understand that she gets upset when she sees me because it is a reminder of what has happened, But she will just have to come to accept it at some point and realize that we can't change what has happened, Just move on. ( and accept that I am 25+ pounds lighter 205 to 178 )<P>Kat,<BR>Thanks, She is expecting the same thing. The difference being she is expecting it to happen before she commits to the marriage. I think if she could make a conscious decision to want to try working on us (commit), That it would go faster for us both. If it comes up again I will mention that it won't happen overnight.<P>Suse,<BR>She is going through alot right now, She does have some demons to work out. I have offered to be there for her if she needs me as a friend, So far she hasn't taken me up on it but that is all I can do for now. I guess when she is ready to face the pain, She will. Until then it will stay locked up in her. <P>I am grateful for what she is giving me, At least she is talking with me and agreeing to see me from time to time. My major hang up is her "friend" that she uses as an emotional crutch. I just wish that some how she could find it within her to try to use me instead of him. I want to be there for her, I want her to need me like she used to. That, is the tough part for me, Knowing that she doesn't need me anymore. Thanks for listening<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Rutger,<BR>I would say that it is a combination of both: she truly does care and out of obligation cuased by the guilt. I pray that she will eventually get to the point where it is out of her love for you alone. I am trying to get my W to see that I don' judge her for what she did. I have forgiven her and love her because she is God's gift to me. I would not be able to love her if He didn't love me first to show me how to truly love her. I know the argument sounds circular but what I have said is covered in the Bible.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

I have been thinking about this very thing! <P>I kept hoping that my h. would have this big catharsis in church and break down and bawl like I would in the face of forgiveness (from me) and grace (from God). <P>It hasn't happened like that at all. Instead, each day or two he says something to indicate that he 1) knows it was wrong and 2) is sorry he hurt me.<P>I identify these two things as Regret. Phase 1.<P>If and when he can honestly shed tears on his own, instead of when I am crying, I will view this as moving into Phase 2, Remorse. I already see glimpses of it now, but he usually goes into another room or gets busy with some project. Fear of Tears, classic male response? I know that the time will come when he can cry over what she did to him AND what he did to me. <P>We can't rush it, it would be like forcing the petals open on a rose. (Example from "Your Husband's Midlife Crisis" by Jim Conway.)<P>Phase 3 will probably follow 2 very closely: Repentance. "I love you and I will never do this again, as God gives me strength to be faithful." They want to be happy with the person they are married too. Life would be much less complicated that way.<P>But right now, they can just barely look at the person they became and the lies and meanness they embodied.<P>So, for me? <P>I pray, thank God she dumped him and he came back when I invited him, and I try to continue to act loving By God's Grace. Only as I see my own weaknesses and selfishness am I able to extend that grace to him.<P>Hearing the stories of those of you who are not under the same roof makes me grateful for my situation, even though it took 18 months of hell under the same roof before he confessed.<P>I think that the betrayers have their own set of coping mechanisms, just like the betrayed do. They have to keep telling themselves that 1) it was true love, 2) they couldn't help themselves, 3) we drove them to it; because otherwise, they have to look in a magnifying mirror and admit how scummy they've behaved.<P>Be patient, the rose that is peeled open instead of allowed to bloom dies rapidly.<P>LIZZIE<P>------------------<BR>When you go through deep waters and great trouble, I will be with you. Isaiah 43:2<P><BR>

Moving this one up, it's worth input from the night shift!<P>------------------<BR>When you go through deep waters and great trouble, I will be with you. Isaiah 43:2<P><BR>

Hi Rutger,<P>Yes, I think that guilt can cause a kind of clouding that blurs the truth. <P>I agree with Suse when she says that the self-examination that follows an affair is a process. I honestly thought I'd fallen out of love with my H and in love with the OM. For honest-to-god real. I truly believed it. As the months without the OM have gone by, I can see the fantasy I was in. I wanted to spare my H the pain of dealing with me, and knew he could never love me or forgive me, because I couldn't love or forgive myself. I have begun to realize that I am a valuable person and that I made a mistake that CAN be overcome, and that I am worthy of love and respect. Your W can and hopefully will, do the same soon. It just takes time.<P>I tell my H I love him every day. He says the same. Even though we are separating, we are now saying things like "WHEN we get back togther"... there is always hope <P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Hi Rutger -<P>Everyone has pretty much said it all already......<P>I can only add that you two have to give yourselves some slack here.<P>You are both confused and neither one of you has a degree in this stuff!!!!<P>It's kind of a learn as you go along experience.<P>Just try to keep yourself open, honest with love and as safe and stable as you can.....<P>This is going to take a while....accept that and when applicable - let her in on that also!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Hi,<P>This is a great post with a lot of responses I believe in.<P>I believe that my h suffers from severe guilt and confusion. He thought and still thinks, as far as I know, that he is/was in love with ow all these years. However, he still tells me goodbye, hugs me, kisses me, looks in my eyes when he talks to me, shares his day with me, spends time with me and our children. (See my profile for more details)<P>I honestly believe that guilt and confusion are burying the "in love" feelings he wants to have for me in addition to the fact that he still works in the same building as ow and sees her everyday. She still calls him at work and leaves messages or talks to him. <P>My h states that he wishes he did not have those feelings for her and had them for me. Well, the bottom line is, he needs to end all contact with her. He needs to deal with all the guilt over hurting me by having an affair. He needs to deal with the guilt of hurting our small children by moving out. He needs to deal with all the hurt he's caused our extended family because everyone is hurting!!! All I can say is right now he is being selfish with a capital S!<P>Sorry, didn't mean to ramble. I will start my own venting post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11<P>Hoping