I agree with Alis. You keep allowing her to treat you this way.

I think your best choice would be to separate from her and work on self improvement.

Don't put a GPS in her car. As she isn't your wife, her property is not yours and you can't spyware it any more than you could a strangers. She hasn't agreed to share her life and possesions with you.

I'm not saying its wrong to check up on someone you live with, more a waste of time.

As a girlfriend, she is still interviewing for the position of your wife. If she isn't voluntarily transparent (and she gives you cause to doubt her - but would 'go mad' at being 'checked up on') then she's not worth your time.

Would you hire someone to work for you if they tried to hide things from you in the interview?

Plus she's nasty and verbally abusive.

This is what happens when people live together without making a serious commitment.

Because no one knows where they stand, people get desperate, angry and abusive.

Just move out and don't move in with someone again while you're still at the interviewing stage.

Ok let's get one thing clear. She's not cheating on me.
I know that evidence might suggest she is but I'm very very confident she isn't. She's not getting texts and phone calls all the time and showing no other signs that cheaters do. I've spoken to a couple of family members about it and they agree.
Also a guy at work his wife works with her and she said the same thing.

Anyway after giving her the 180 on Sunday ( we went out together but I made no physical contact with her and didn't touch her when we watched tv that night which I think is the reason why she had a spat)
On Monday I sent her a text about something and she took ages to reply. She still seemed angry but when I got home I was surprised that she gave me a hug and a passionate kiss which continued throughout the night and into bed.
So that was a positive sign I've now just got to work on her telling me she loves me and having sex with me again, but baby steps for now.

Why do I want to stay with her if she is a nasty [censored]???

The same reason she has stayed with me even though I raise my voice and can be abrupt. Because when we're not fighting we get along very good and have a good time together and are good friends. We both have a lot to work on but I hope that if one of us starts to change it will have positive results for the other.

I'm not naive to think our problems are over but at least she's kissing me again. I still think her main problem is she's reached menopause as she gets very moody just before her periods anyway.
All I can do is continue to improve myself and if I don't keep her I've at least got the confidence to get a new woman.

Kenny, are you interested in objective advice or are you here to convince us that this relationship can be saved?

You're not married to her, you don't have any children together, she treats you like crap, at what point do your recognize that this is just a dating relationship that isn't going to pan out? Instead of writing it off as being menopausal... come on. Going through menopause does not make people treat people like that.

You are clinging onto whatever straws you can. Sorry, your relationship has gone down the tube and instead of searching out another girlfriend who you can date, have fun with, and who treats you well, you are holding onto something trying to fix it.

She's 47, going out to bars, men perving on her, she is rude and verbally abusive, is this truly the only woman on this planet you can date?

Also, are you actually interested in Marriage Builders?

Because MB is pretty clear on one thing- if she makes a lousy girlfriend, cut her loose and move on. MB is not about saving crappy dating relationships. That's the point of dating - you can walk away if it isn't a good match.

But she is creating a situation where she is free to do so whenever she wants. Much of her life is hidden. Would she voluntarily give you all passwords, access to her phone etc? Would she implement POJA? Would she live a healthy, integrated life with you with no nights apart? Or would she want to keep up her single lifestyle?

She's not a bad person if she wants privacy and independence, but she should stay single if she does. No marriage can survive one person doing what they want and keeping secrets.



You are thrilled because your girlfriend hugged and kissed you and said ILY? One night? Is that all you require?

There are other women capable of kisses and ILY. Women who are buyers. You also don't have to step carefully through periods of unhappiness with a buyer, rather than this renter.



No one said she was!! I'm sure she is pleasant to other people but nasty to you, because your relationship has become abusive.

Its a renters' relationship. Renters believe that relationships have to be unhappy between short periods of getting crumbs from each other. That you should 'put up' with her and be unhapy and then she believes it will be her turn to 'put up' with you when you feel its your turn to get your way.



Good friends treat each other with respect, not demands and insults. They don't string each other along in an uncommitted relationship, either.



So you are going to remain in a living situation where no one knows where in hell its going? Where your gf is free to pick up anyone who takes her fancy? Where the lack of any long term plan or any commitment will see anger, demands and disrespect elevate each week?

How will making a relationship a) more abusive and b) more likely to result in cheating make you more confident?

Her lack of commitment is so bad you have even got a back up plan of finding a new woman when it fails!

This is a MARRIAGE builders site.

Marriage involves two people who have made a life long commitment to each other.

Wannabe Marriagebuilders are people who adopt a serious approach to not settling for less than that in looking for a life partner.

Anybody could set up a relationship without commitment which involves sporadic periods of friendship, passion and fighting. Anyone.

Dr H does not recommend it though.

There's no WW or BH here, Road. They're dating. Living together.

Kenny, when I was dating my wife and she'd get snappy and talk disrespectfully towards me, I'd simply tell her that I was going to tolerate her speaking to me disrespectfully and if she continued to do so then I didn't want to be in a relationship with her.

She speaks to you and treats you like this because you allow her to. Would you let someone else talk to you in a demeaning manner? If you wouldn't then why do you allow her to?

Well lots of interesting comments and replies. Firstly let me say that some of you seem to think she goes out every weekend to bars to get picked up and perved on. In the two years we've been together she's been out 3 times. And two of them were over a year ago and were for dinner to a Gf,s bday.
She's certainly not going out every weekend and acting single.
Secondly I agree with what some of you are saying that I shouldn't be putting up with the way she treats me. But I'm not innocent either and certainly have my faults. We both have a number of things we need to work on and that's why we're going to counselling. I suppose I see the good times outweighing the bad enough that I want us to try and work on eliminating the bad times as much as possible.
If we can't do that, if we continue to fight or she continues to go out then it will be time to call it a day.

I've said that to her before and asked why is she speaking to me like crap and treating me so bad but she's usually too angry to see reason. But the problem is we get into these arguments and I will start raising my voice which she hates and then it just escalates from there.
We both need to be able to communicate without resorting to fighting and yelling.
When we're not fighting we get along very well. Can go out for a drink together and talk for hours.

Kenny if you can takeway anything from the MB programe it should be that raising your voice or having angry out bursts is a loosing situation. If you keep in mind that, especially for a man, to raise his voice he has instantly lost, then it should help you eliminate it.
Once you have sorted your side of the street then the rest is easy.
Do not ask your GF "why is she speaking to me like crap and treating me so bad", who cares.
What you do, after you have sorted your side of the street, is reread KTs post and "simply tell her that you are not going to tolerate her speaking to you disrespectfully and if she continued to do so then you didn't want to be in a relationship with her." AND MEAN IT.
Thats how its done and she will stop it. No need to ask her why anything.
You do need to sort yourself out first though.

Then don't raise your voice. You can control how you react. Simply be a broken record "please do not raise your voice at me".

Of course she'll get upset at first and try and goat you into a fight.

I think half the problem stems from my angry outbursts. And I know I need to control this better so am working on it.
If I can control these then I should be half way to solving our problems even if it doesn't save us at least it will make me a better person.

Thanks heaps for all your help

No, Kenny. You need to completely stop. Either follow the program or don't. Doing one thing here and one thing three isn't going to work.

One thing is for sure, you can't expect her not to have angry outbursts if you are

You do need to work on your anger, both of you, but you need to move out in order to do so. Until you are both ready to make a lifelong commitment, and the issues are resolved the relationship simply isn't up to the daily stress and constant consideration of living together.

It also gives each other the impression that you will both settle for less than you are getting. Living together has made you both lazy about moving the relationship on.- because it falsely assumes the image of having each other permanently.

Move out and progress the relationship from renter to buyer status properly through dating.

Have you listened to these clips?
Anger Mgmt 101

I think moving out would have to be a last resort. We moved in together to save money as we were both paying rent and I stayed at her house most nights anyway. So we both signed a lease together which expires in October.
Thanks for the link to the anger management clip. I like listening to podcasts etc on my drive to and from work each day so looking forward to it.
The usual scenario for us was she would crack the [censored] at me over something petty, then i would try to defend myself and it would turn into an argument where i would start to raise my voice (Never have I been violent and hit or or anything like that) we would end up not talking for days and we both withdrew a large sum from each others lovebanks
So far I've been good with controlling my angry outbursts and I have noticed she seems to be a lot better too. If she does crack it with me I try to see her side of things and don't raise my voice anymore.
I explain my take on it without getting angry and it seems to work. I always thought she was mad at the original subject she had raised but it turns out what was worse was when I started raising my voice and that caused all the problems.

Thanks again for the help and advice.

You'd do well to read up on Disrespectful Judgments, too.

Just nicely telling her that she's wrong and that what is bothering her is petty is bad. You have to address complaints. Not argue them away. That's infuriating to the complainer, no matter how nicely you attempt to do it.

Look into buying the book Love Busters by Dr. Harley.