Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
A
alis Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
I have been trying to POJA with my H for a week on a parenting issue and so far we've not been able to agree. He has "agreed" on a compromise but since he has no real interest in following it (unenthusiastic), it has led to the same issue continuing and me becoming more resentful each day. Today, I ended up breaking down in tears because it is causing me so much stress.

I am the primary parent. Aside from 1 hour per night and weekends, I am the only caregiver (2.5 year old boy). My son does not listen to me or respect my authority anymore because whenever I say NO, my H will turn around and say yes (the specific issue is basically discipline). Today, we were kicked out of a playgroup for our son's violent behavior (he has behavioural issues, suspected ADHD, and is the kind of child who needs even MORE firm boundaries and discipline than average). I am really getting upset about this issue because it will only get worse and worse. I am also pregnant and due in two weeks - I have no idea how I will cope.

I really need help frown

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Do you both agree that he can no longer tell your child yes when you say no? That is the first step. The goal of the POJA is to come to mutually enthuiastic decisions concerning your child.

I will send a bat signal to Markos and Prisca, parents of 6 little ones under age 5.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
A
alis Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
Yes ML, he agrees that we cannot do that - far too confusing for someone who is just learning that boundaries actually exist!

Thank you, look forward to Markos & Prisca's input.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
alis, my friend, Harley addresses this issue in this article and mentions that http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5031b_qa.html it is covered in Chapter 10 in Lovebusters. You know can also email the Harleys at the radio station for additional help, right?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
A
alis Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
Thanks ML, will take a look right now

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
A
alis Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
Wow, that article was amazing! Thank you! And I agree with it 100% (particularly the difference between considerate and inconsiderate high-energy children - I am well aware he has always been, and always will be, high-energy. It's the considerate vs inconsiderate part that we must deal with!). I will show this article to him when he gets home. The sooner we get a grip on this, the better.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Hi, alis,

The biggest issue I see is your husband telling your son yes after you have said no. But if, as you say, he is committed to not doing that any more, and to follow the POJA, then you can be on track to fixing this. If not, you have a serious independent behavior situation, and I would encourage you to contact Dr. Harley for his specific advice.

I have heard Dr. Harley say that for childrearing, you need to negotiate two questions:
1) what rules are we going to have?
2) how are we going to enforce them?

The first area answers questions like "Are we going to allow the kids to turn on the TV?" the second answers questions like "How are we going to stop Johnny from turning on the TV? Do we spank him, or send him to the corner?"

Here's the hard part: until these things are nailed down, you can't take action (other than for health and safety of your children). So you need to get into these issues and negotiate them.

Which brings us to an important question: how on board is your husband with Marriage Builders? Does he agree to the POJA, in principle? Does he Lovebust? If your husband is not on board and you are trying to drag him through this, it is not going to work. And if the rest of the program is not running (establishing romantic love), one or both of you is not going to feel sufficiently motivated to go through this difficult process of negotiating together, and is going to feel like just making independent decisions.

Another question: do you guys spend 15 hours together as a family for family commitment time? The feeling I get from hearing Dr. Harley on the radio is that this is essentially recommended for all families, even if husband and wife both rank FC as a low need. During this time you'll be teaching your children thoughtfulness for others, and that teaching should carry over to help at other times. I would suspect that you have a family commitment need that is not being met. The 15 hours as a family is a big key to meeting that, and your husband's involvement in negotiating and solving child rearing problems is the other big key to meeting that.

You need an enthusiastic agreement to whatever you guys come up with, because if husband or wife make an agreement without enthusiasm, he or she will not carry through. If he agrees to spank Johnny when he turns on the TV, but isn't really enthusiastic, then when Johnny turns on the TV and mother isn't around, he will ignore it or address Johnny in a way that mother feels is ineffective (such as sending Johnny to the corner, for example). Enthusiasm is crucial in order to get follow through.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
On a personal note, I'll add that our second child was absolutely the hardest adjustment. It was easier to add twins (3rd and 4th) than it was to add the second child! That was when we really learned what we had to let go and what we had to do differently. We could not take 3 hours to put the oldest child down at night, for example, and had to find new solutions to our problems. Necessity really became the mother of invention.

Let me ask: are you getting adequate sleep? Sleep is CRUCIAL for parents and especially when there's a new baby. Dr. Harley recommends when the new baby arrives alternating nights staying up with the baby as necessary, so that one of you can always be rested. Nursing may complicate that, and/or you may feel a need for more or less help on that front. Don't shortchange yourself on sleep, though. Lack of sleep makes you irrational and diminishes your ability to solve problems, and parenting is very much about solving problems.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Do you guys have His Needs, Her Needs For Parents?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
A
alis Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
Thank you Markos. Yes, he is on board with MB principles of POJA, LB's, etc. Yes, we do get lots of Family time and UA time (although I admit the UA time will suffer with the newborn but we plan to get on track ASAP). My H is taking 6 months paternity leave (I don't work) as of the end of this month.

It is funny you mention sleep - because that is the root of this POJA issue.

Our son did not sleep for almost two years (medical problems). He finally started sleeping on his own, happily, in his bed, no problems. Our toddler was sick a few weeks ago and so we put him in our bed so we could get some sleep. He loved it. He now puts up a fight everytime I try and make him sleep in his own bed. When he wakes up crying at night, H goes into his room and brings him back into our bad. H wakes up at 5 for work, disturbs the toddler, and the toddler is a nightmare grump all day long (his lack of sleep contributing to his awful behavior).

As you can imagine, adding a newborn into this will be a disaster. I have 2 weeks of sleep left (I sleep great!) and I do not wish to be fighting with a toddler at bedtime, naptime, and in the middle of the night constantly.

I go into his room and tell him "no, please go to sleep", but he knows his daddy will say yes. Now, he doesn't listen to me for anything. So, that is the specific issue.

We need to order that book, in fact I will do so right now

Last edited by alis; 10/12/12 09:47 AM.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
A
alis Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
Our family time is 1 hour per night (Tues, Wed, Thurs) - he goes to bed at 7pm, and around 6-8 hours each on Sat, Sun, Mon. The rest of the time (after bed week days and Fridays & Sat/Sun nights) are our UA time.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Sleep issues were a big deal for us, as well, especially with one child. I thought I was going to die one day when I babysat our baby nephew plus our one year old, back in those days.

We discovered we had to eliminate toddler naps once the children got old enough to get out of their beds. Otherwise, the fight for naps would dominate Prisca's day (and mine, too, if I was home). Our solution was to put the kids to bed earlier. A lot of times we had to sit with kids at nighttime until they calmed down sufficiently that they would stay in bed.

For this specific issue, you do need to negotiate. It's important for both of you to understand each other's perspective: you don't want your son to continue to feel he can come into your bed. Your husband may feel that letting him into your bed is easier, though. It may not disturb his sleep as much as it does yours.

Right now when our two year old gets up at night, he does sleep in our bed, but our previous solution was I went to their room and went to sleep with him, usually waking up an hour later and coming back to our own bed. At the time, having him next to my while sleeping did not disturb my sleep, but it did disturb Prisca. (I should maybe revisit this with her and see if the current solution is still working....)

You'll need to brainstorm alternatives. Did you hear the Marriage Builders radio broadcast several weeks ago when Zhamila's husband called in? There were several great suggestions about negotiation, including keeping a notebook and negotiating issues in written form.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,343
Likes: 3
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,343
Likes: 3
Alias,

Here's the show with the notebook idea. The one markos was talking about with Zhamila's H.
Radio clip of POJA
Segment #2
Segment #3


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: May 2012
Posts: 133
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 133
Our toddler got in the habit of waking up at 2-3 am and climbing in our bed. If we kicked her out, she would throw a fit, waking up the whole house. Then, We would let her stay "just a few minutes" then ask her to go. That helped. Then, we gave her just a hug, and basicly explained to her that we have to get our sleep, could she do us a HUGE favor and go back to bed. Ours liked that she was "helping", and we gave her lots of thanks the next day for helping us sleep.

It was so funny, because she would get in so quietly. Scared the jimmies out of me some nights.... I'd wake up with this pale ghostly figure silently rising up over the edge of the bed! lol

I know its exhausting, but ya gotta laugh and enjoy them while they're little and adore you so much!



Me: 46 = DH = INTP
DW: 45 = ESFJ
Married 13 yrs
D1: 12
D2: 10
D3: 9
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
A
alis Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
Thank you everyone for all the great advice.

We came to an agreement (which involves me dealing with the toddler at night rather than him) and in only few days, the toddler's behavior has gone back to normal. He recognizes that these are conflicting signals to a toddler who has zero awareness that he has another sibling joining us any day now.

Part of the problem is that my husband is such a good dad. Sounds funny eh? He is SUCH a great father that he really misses him when he is away working, that he loves to spend as much time with him as possible, even if it's at night wink

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
hurray


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Great news!

I hope that "great dad" thing is the reason why our toddler decided to come get in our bed TWICE last night... That would at least put a positive spin on it!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,458
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,458
Likes: 9
Good to see you back, alis! Has that new baby been keeping you too busy to post? Are you getting any sleep?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
A
alis Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
Hi, thank you! Actually, the baby (4 months now - he came two weeks late) naps amazing, it's his 3 year old brother that keeps me running around like a headless chicken! smile I never realized how easy just one kid was (hehe). This baby is a much better sleeper than his brother and things are great. UA time has taken a hit but that is a groove that we have to work back into.

Last edited by alis; 03/18/13 07:42 AM.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
A
alis Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
Oh and about this original problem. It resolved itself before the baby came - it was just a phase. He has (had) a significant speech delay and part of the problem was being unable to verbalize anything. He can now communicate reasonably well (still behind for his age, but he can speak a bit) and his behaviour has changed quite a bit, with the help of preschool.

Last edited by alis; 03/18/13 07:41 AM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 118 guests, and 56 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
cbm800, Dodo M, Kingpin, MikaylaVaux, I.P.
71,728 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,546
Posts2,322,790
Members71,729
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5