I was thinking about things deeply today and about why I still experience resentment and also fear about the future and was wondering, so what happens if someone's EMs cannot be fully met in a marriage?

My WH cheated primarily because he wanted to indulge in sexual acts that I did not want to. Now I've become a little more adventurous, but I know I will probably never be what OW was. Its more of a compromise.
But what happens if his needs now or ever exceed that what I can fill without it being a love buster for me? What do MB principles have to say on that?
What happens in situations if someone's need is another's love buster?

His emotional need is for sexual fulfillment and that should NEVER be met in a way that repels you. His emotional needs have to be met in a way about which you are BOTH enthusiastic. If you are engaging in acts you don't enjoy, that violates the POJA and pretty soon, you won't be meeting that need AT ALL.

So it is real important that you meet each others needs in a way that you are both enthusiastic - it should NEVER involve sacrifice.

Do you have the books Surviving an Affair and Lovebusters? I would get those books so you can understand how this program works. You will never really understand the program just reading the forum.

Let's say for example that your husband likes OS and you don't. If you sacrifice and start doing that for him, pretty soon you will be avoiding sex at all costs. Sacrifice like that creates incompatibility and resentment.

A better solution is to find methods that you BOTH enjoy.

Dr Harley wrote this post to a pastor who came here and told a woman she should do anything her husband wants in bed:

Yes, I have the books and I understand how something needs to be a mutual enjoyment for both.
Now that is just me postulating, but what if simply an emotional need is something that's a love buster for someone else?
like for example bdsm orientations. It could either be something someone needs because they are oriented that way or something that someone simply does not care for.

btw, what is OS? I am pretty familiar with all the acronyms used on the forum, but this one isn't registering for some reason.

That is not an emotional need, though. The need is actually sexual fulfillment. Like I said before, sacrifice should always be avoided.


oral sex.

Harley explains it in this article about how incompatibility is created:

here

In other words, if one partner does not like bdsm, it should be eliminated ENTIRELY from the marriage.

ALSO, if you are using the POJA on everything, then you avoid implementing decisions that benefit one spouse at the expense of the other. IF one spouse enjoys bdsm and the other one doesn't, then it would never be an issue.

twocents, make sure you are enthusiastically pursuing more adventurous sexual acts. Don't do these to appease him. You will become resentful if you do so, and will soon find the prospect of sex to be unenjoyable to the point of avoidance.

Can you agree that you are enthusiastic about these acts, or are you engaging in them to appease him?

no, I do enthusiastically agree with anything I do - after everything I endured I absolutely make sure I'm not doing anything just to please him. Its more of me having become a little more willing to explore, but never with anything I don't want to do.
My thoughts (esp knowing what he did with OW) is about him having those cravings of things I would not enthusiastically want to do.
WH has told me that bdsm can be a need in itself. Which I tried to do some reading on, and from what I've read I understood that some people are oriented that way. He is not into it deeply thankfully but he does seem to have those inclinations, so of course I wonder what would happen if those desires are suppressed but grow and I am unable to meet them.

btw Melody, thank you very much for your always helpful resources - you have an article at your fingertips for everything and its greatly appreciated

If they are not suppressed in a marriage where one partner finds it repulsive, it will harm the marriage. Unless both partner enthusiastically embrace it, it should be tossed. Desires that are bad for the marriage should be suppressed and replaced with desires that benefit the marriage.

It's not. He is confused by what an EN means. The need is actually sexual fulfillment. An EN is something that creates romantic love for the giver when that need is met. However, if the giver is disgusted by bdsm, the romantic love in the marriage will quickly erode.

The emotional need of sexual fulfillment is something one needs to create romantic love. But it will not achieve that goal if some weird sexual practice is FORCED on a spouse against her will. It will ruin the marriage.

Its important to understand the context of NEEDS. If admiration is a top need, we mean "the EN of admiration creates romantic love for this person."

Does your husband look at porn and/or engage in swinging? That is very typical when we see someone with weird sexual proclivities.

You are very welcome!

MB principles say that when husband or wife wants something the other does not feel enthusiastic about, they should negotiate an alternative. Dr. Harley is very adamant that it is a mistake to believe that there are not alternatives. For example, to insist that a man has an emotional need for groping, and only that action can meet his need: this would be mistaken. He and his wife need to negotiate a way to get his emotional need for Sexual Fulfillment that she is enthusiastic about.

In other words, follow the Policy of Joint Agreement.

Dr. Harley also says that men like this need to learn to enjoy pleasing their wife sexually in ways that she enjoys. They need to learn to put the focus on their wives and not just on themselves.

Dr. Harley also says that when couples come to him with sexual problems, he resolves the relationship problems first, and nine times out of ten, the sexual problems go away. What other relationship problems are there? I recommend resolving those first, and following the POJA about sex in the meantime, then reassessing the situation. In particular, it is crucial that you be in love with your husband, and that if not, that he be on board with a plan to restore the feeling of romantic love you have for him. Don't try to work this one-sided long term; this is devastating for women. Is he 100%, totally on board with Marriage Builders? If not, you need to get help ASAP with resolving that and not try to resolve later issues like sexual issues.

If there are other relationship issues, they are not caused by his alleged unmet sexual needs! Affairs are NOT caused by unmet sexual needs. Husbands neglecting wives is not caused by unmet sexual needs. Abuse, addiction, these are not caused by unmet sexual needs.

Another recommendation that Dr. Harley gives is that for an emotional need that one partner feels more highly than the other, the need should be met as often as the high-need spouse wants, but in the way that the low-need spouse likes. So, for sex, for a typical "high-sex-need husband, low-sex-need wife" scenario, that would mean they have sex as often as he wants -- in the way she likes! That would pitch BDSM out the window.

Anybody can make stuff up on the internet; it doesn't make it true.

According to Dr. Harley, such orientations are reinforced. He can learn to enjoy alternative means of lovemaking. Just as ML is saying: the need is sexual fulfillment, not BDSM.

$0.02,
One thing that you haven't examined, at least here, is the genesis of this "need" of WH.

Was this something that cropped up since you were courting, or was your aversion the new development? I'm guessing the former, but wanted to be certain.

When we speak here of the pre-marital period as a job interview, this is the type of contention that must be explored (although broaching the topic of tying a future spouse to a bed-post would be problematical, to say the least).

And let's never forget that if there can be no common ground on an item of import, then there is the possibility of dissolving the marriage. Example: If you were to be certain that your life would be barren and void without children, and your spouse thinks the idea of rugrats is hideous, well, there can be no reasonable compromise that could satisfy both.

Discussed properly, then, the negotiated decision becomes weighted with the BATNA (Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement)being divorce, for either party. The alternative cannot be solving the EN with a third party!

There's a vast difference between needs and wants.

Its usually HOW a person wants the need fulfilled which is merely a want.

If I had a high FS need and said I wanted diamonds every day, I would be talking about a want, not a need. Its possible to fulfill FS without robbing a bank

And equally, it is possible to fulfill SF without breaking our sense of what's right, comfortable or desirable to do.

Dr H says POJA is so wise because men and women tend to moderate and improve each others point of view.

If we listen to just one persons pov we only get half the picture. But if two people put their heads together, they come up with the best solution.

2 penny,

No one has answered your question, have they? What if you cannot (will not) fulfill your WH's 'need' as he believes it needs to be fulfilled? I assume I paraphrased that accurately?

Let me make a suggestion. If you upped the other areas of SF for your H, perhaps this 'need' as he feels/believes it to be will become much less of a need. It would appear that simple physiology may come into play. He can only expend so much energy in a give day, even with drugs and supplements. If you work on him expending his needs by other release methods, perhaps this one that bothers you will not be as significant for him. Just a thought.

Actually her question was answered. Several times. The answer is to find solutions that make them BOTH happy. That is the answer.


Again, it is not a "need." It is a desire. The need is sexual fulfillment and there are many ways to achieve that. The end result should be something about which BOTH are enthusiastic.

Please educate yourself about Marriage Builders concepts before you post on these threads.