Almost ALL cheaters, liars and other scoundrels talk about being "sorry" when they are caught red handed. It is meaningless. BIG DEAL. What counts are ACTIONS.

I'm not talking about the WS here on this forum, I'm talking about the WS that most of the BS on this forum are referring to. And there is no such thing as making amends if the person doesn't feel HORRIBLE for the terrible things they've done. Otherwise it's just lipservice.

But....you wouldn't have any way of knowing. You haven't ever recovered a marriage with a WW. All you know is how to ARGUE.

I don't mind a good debate, but when a poster is willfully ignorant in order to advance a personal agenda...I've got problems with that.

And I can't ever figure out what your agenda IS! You've got people who have recovered their marriages posting to you to help you recover your marriage, and you are attempting to undermine how they recovered their marriage by trying to unseat the solid concepts behind a program that has saved those marriages.
Excuse me, but, duh?

Note to wilderness: know when to shut up and listen.

True enough. Feeling bad is a prerequisite to corrective action. Sometimes they feel bad right away. Sometimes it takes months to crawl out of the fog. Sometimes they never 'get' it.

Really? Wilderness, can you please help us out by naming five currently wayward spouses who still post here? From what I've seen, most of the ones who are still in a wayward mindset show up for a few days but actually don't stick around long, because they can't stand getting called out on their bull**** by those of us who can see through it.

I think the percentage of waywards who stick around here for more than a few weeks is actually in the low single digits. So if you could help us out by naming, say, five of them who are still posting & still engaged in affairs, that'd be great, & good to know. (Or 3 or 4, if you can't cite 5.) Thanks, and looking forward to your list.

To clarify, I worded it wrong- I was referring to the spouses of the BS that post here, not the WS that post here.

To clarify what? I'm still not sure what your intention is, here. Perhaps you would like to reword your goals for the posters on this site.

What kind of remorse are you seeking?

Do you want her to suffer? Or do you want her motivated to join you in building a better marriage where you can thrive ?

If you need to see her punished, then you are not ready to reconcile. Do the best you can to work out parenting arrangements.

Which ones? Be specific, please, so that we may be enlightened.

I've read and re-read this thread and I still cannot get a straight answer: Did your ex-wife actually have an affair while you were married ????

Your first post stated that you divorced "mostly because of your MIL", and that you were here because your XW, who is currently your GF, had a boyfriend in addition to you. (Gee, this sounds like a country song...except I like country songs).

If she had an affair while you were still MARRIED, then it escaped my attention. Did she ?

And while I'm going out on a limb, does your XW/GF, who I guess now is also your XGF (???) ever know that she was engaged to you ? Did you present a ring and say, "Will you marry me?" and she said, "Yes, I will marry you" ? Because all this sounds so one-sided to me.

Where am I going with this ? Well, it seems like we are wasting an awful lot of time here and I'm not even sure there is an affair to survive ? If she did commit adultery while she was married to you, I apologize for missing this very big fact.

And if Wilderness won't answer me, can someone else figure it out and let me know ? I'd like some peaceful slumber tonight. This is maddening.

Cliff Notes version:
- wilderness is divorced. To wilderness� understanding, the divorce was caused primarily by his MIL�s interference in his marriage
- Following the divorce, wilderness continued dating his ex-wife
- wilderness understood that his dating agreement with his ex-wife was exclusive and a prelude to re-marrying. It is clear this understanding was not mutual as the ex-wife took a boyfriend
- Posters here have offered condolences for wilderness� pain in feeling he�s been cheated, but also pointed out that they were not married, and therefore she is a free agent and is not guilty of adultery
- wilderness is very angry that his ex-wife is not sorry that she�s dating other people
- wilderness says he wants to reconcile with his ex-wife, but demands that she publicly acknowledge his interpretation of their history as a condition.
- Though he believes his MIL�s interference caused the destruction of his marriage, wilderness seems to think that, somehow, bringing his own mother into it at this stage will be helpful
- wilderness apparently believes his ex-wife should be punished in some fashion for breaking his understanding of their agreement
- wilderness is demanding that his ex-wife change to accommodate him and cannot seem to acknowledge that he can�t make her do anything, that the only control he has is to change himself
- Since the posters who�ve been trying to help him are not supporting his approach, which seems to be driven by emotion, primarily rage, wilderness has resorted to becoming combative and insulting to the posters here, calling them �wayward� and accusing them of supporting affairs and being actively engaged in them
- When asked to validate his position, wilderness comes across as very confused and starts retracting his accusations
- wilderness doesn�t appear to be seeking help, but instead, appears to be looking for ideas on how to extract retribution on his ex-wife
- wilderness does not appear to have delved very deeply into the materials on this web site, as his posts seem to lack the quality of coherence normally extracted by this point in a thread

That should just about bring you up to speed.

Thank you WarHorse. I can sleep tonight.

Goodluck to you Wilderness. I don't think you'll find what you are looking for here---but we have sure tried to offer you some sound advice.

good job!!

What is your goal wilderness?

Do you want to get back together with your ex-wife and have a good marriage? Or do you want to punish her further for having a boyfriend while dating you?

You can't have both. Either you take the punishment route or the recovery route. Note that MB recovery methods such as exposure are not "punishment" but rather accountability.

So make up your mind...

Or, the personal recovery route. That is a route too.

Since your WXW has taken out an RO and seems to have no desire to recover your relationship following her A, then it seems like you might want to look into some post marriage personal recovery instead.

The situation was NOTHING like it is being portrayed here by those other than me. It was not one sided nor was it just 'my understanding' that we were getting remarried and moving in together. This stuff was discussed every single day to the point of planning both short and long term, for a new life and a new marriage together. Maybe technically this is not adultery but in my opinion it is just a semantic argument to paint this as something other than deception, cheating, and the destruction of a family.

It is all of that. I understand why you are hurt and upset. I am just wondering what direction you want to take, and what you want advice on. So far you just seem to want to bicker and point out what you see as flaws to the MB program, or distract people from helping those who are seeking help.

I don't know what to do. I would like to save my family if possible, and I know she will be back at some point. But I don't want to save this at all costs. I'd like to maybe do everything that I can for a month, maybe 5 weeks at the most.

And I'd like to make sure this doesn't happen again (or at least do everything that I can do to make sure it doesn't happen again).

It's gonna take longer than a month.
If you want to save your family it's gonna be several months, Dr Harley recommends up to several years of plan A to win a spouse back.

Well not exactly. Dr Harley recommends no more than 3 weeks for a BW and 2 years for a BH. But you plan A as long as you CAN without having emotional and physical damage from it, and if you are already experiencing that then you need to go into Plan B instead.

If you think you can pull off a good Plan A for a period of time then do that, but if you cannot do so without lovebusting and further damaging her lovebank for you then it would better to protect her LB for you and yours for her by going into Plan B.

You seem awfully resentful to pull off a good Plan A.