Thank you Opt!

When things were going as best as they could, OM is back! He went to my work and approach me in the parking lot...he approached me asking for forgiveness and apologizing, crying his eyes out because according to him he wants to be a part of OC and is very sorry for everything according to him but especially for not being present for OC who is now 3 years old...I thought I had forgiven him and moved on, clearly I have not, I was offended by his presence, angry at him and did not believe a single word he said...OC was nothing but the last option and I would not doubt now that the only reason he might be wanting OC in his life is probably because there's a good chance he's alone...

I talked to my husband about what happened, he was quite offended by the nerve of this man and feels there is no sincerity, because if he was and his intentions were sincere and honest he would have contacted him knowing he is OC's father...I literally walked away as fast as I could, I did not want to hear or see him, as I left he kept on talking and yelling out his apologies...I very disturbed and very sorry and sad I place my family in this position and don't know what to do...I ask myself if this man is going to haunt me for life or will he eventually get tired, move on and leave us alone...

I have come a long ways in such short time..I'm very involved in my sons activities and sports, I became involved at my church, I have so many plans and have worked so hard to earn my husbands trust and he's very proud of all I have changed and done for our marriage and family sake, and now this...

Are you going to move?

I would prefer to move...sadly not my H...he's not willing to relocate our children, for financial reasons and because all of our family lives nearby...to my H is not fair to our children and is considering to talk to OM and set the record straight, and if he needs to he will put a restraining order in place...OC is his little boy and not a toy. He feels he's just using OC to disturb our peace and quite frankly only seeing OC as his last option...I tried to convince my H to move, but he's determined to stay and go on. My H thinks if he moves that's a sign of weakness on his part and he's not willing to run off, he feels he just needs to have a real face to face talk so this man realizes there's nothing here for him and OC is non-negotiable and out of the question and certainly not an excuse for him to intrude in our family and lives at this point and time.

Personally the best solution I find is moving away...my H is not something he's willing to consider at all...I hope that by being ignored this just fall in place on their own and OM just gives up and walk away...I don't know what else to suggest to my H...we are doing well with each other and very supportive of each other, but moving away my H is not willing to support or considered...I know these are the consequences of my actions and I'm paying for it, but will this ever stop? This is disturbing and depressing and sad to think I put my H through so much already and now this...my H feels OM will probably continue to re-appear like this as long as he is alone, but at some point he might become involved with someone else and never appear again...he doesn't find him threatening at all...that gives me some hope, but not sure if it makes sense at all...

The solution to this problem is to move. Your husband is grossly underestimating the risks involved here, and the result is you and your family experiencing a lot of unnecessary pain. Do not allow your guilt over all of this to prevent you from advocating for the right thing.

I will get back with more later Betty, but I have a couple initial thoughts from your last 2 posts.
One is that you can let go of the "I put my family through this" thought process. Your husband had every right to walk away from you for what you did, take the kids and drop you like a bad habit. He did not do that. He has embraced the situation in exemplary style. He has taken ownership of the situation and does not need sympathy or for his wife to "feel bad" - it's not helping. He needs his wife to stand strong with him and embrace the good in all this - whatever that may be. Additionally, he could have rejected OC, given custody over, and taken no responsibility for the baby. He did not do that either. He has stepped up to the plate to be this kids real dad; there is nothing to feel bad about here -- INCLUDING the OM's antics. Yes that's an unfortunate part of all this, but it doesn't take anythign away from the beauty you have created in your lives by taking this potentially lost little child and giving it the best home possible.

2: I detect a lack of MB principles in your depiction of your current situation. The policy of joint agreement was not mentioned. MB is the only way you two will get through this all together. Please dive back into the books and start becoming expret in these concepts -- together. It's essential for you and your family's future happiness.
--Ever consider the MB coaching option?
What did you think of writing the radio show?
did you ask again if your husband would be willing to post here? opt

Thank you Opt! I really was needing a reality check...I talked to my H last night...he said he was not concern about OM at all, he was actually concerned about me and that my good intentions might lead to a chaos. He said to me, he has forgiven me, he's done and over with that moment and he's well passed that, he expressed I have earned his trust, he's very proud for all I have accomplished and for all I have done so far for our sons. He said, "if I forgave you and decided to stay committed to you and our family, our sons, you should no longer feel guilty...I cannot tell you enough that I love you and we have a beautiful life ahead of us. What I feel you need to do is forgive yourself and know that I don't care anymore for what happened, what matters to me is now and our future together..." He really made me think and see, that I am struggling to forgive myself for hurting others and I have not overcome my guilt...his concern is that my good will may betray me and that OM uses that to try and manipulate me using OC...

You are absolutely right, Opt...my H needs his wife to stand strong with him and he's not getting that because of my feelings of guilt are overwhelming sometimes, but we do talk about everythings, that's part of what we agreed, no more secrets and any concerns I have I would let him know first and foremost. But that also concerns him, he gets worried that I might give in to OM's tears and feelings of regret and he was quite clear about this...it concerns that his emotions are disturbing me and his worst fear is that at some point I might believe him and do something stupid and jeopardize our marriage and family's well being...

I have considered MB coaching, but not my H...My H is very strong-willed and does not want to post, although he has read quite a bit here...which I firmly believe has helped him a great deal coping with the situation and how well he has handled everything, better than me for sure...I will go back and read the books again...thank you kindly for your advice. I read this weekend all your posts and they were certainly inspirational, motivating and encouraging...thank you.

Kind regards,
Betty

Okay Betty. Sounds like you have spoken with your husband with a great deal of O&H; that's the way to do it.
I would imagine reading here has helped your husband. Just knowing there are actually others in these situations would have helped me greatly. Please let him read my posts including this:
You can be strong-willed and still immerse yourself in MB principles, including posting. In fact, I believe this program takes a very strong will to maintain. My wife and I have the will to practice things daily -- including POJA; which you two desperataly need to be experts in because of your current situation. Problem is that it is a very hard concept to get good at and requires practicing on very very small issues first (like which kind of toilet paper to buy) and working UP TO "should we stay or should we go?"
It also takes a strong will to do MB counseling (on line, etc.). A strong will to pay the cost, read the material, speak to the coach honestly, and commit to making the best marriage possible for you and your family.

Another essential ingredient to your success (and giving you some relief from OM's antics) will be External Precautions. You should do everything in your power to eliminate all contact with him -- even these sick little chance encounters that he has managed. If you and your husband understood this concept, the discussion of whether or not to move might take on a different character. You might also problem solve together some ways to avoid the situation in the future - things you hadn't already thought of. But there is a better chance that will happen if you both have a real understanding of just how important it is that you NEVER ever lay eyes on this person again.
see -- if you had No Contact in place (including possible restraining order - for ....harrassment...?), neither of you would even have these concerns.

BTW: MB would not dictate that you have "earned his trust" -- nor has he "earned" yours. Dr. Harley, as you must know by now, proposes that EVERYONE would cheat given the right circumstances, and NOBODY would cheat given the opposite circumstances. In marriage, the strategy is to always maintain as close to the "opposite" circumstances as possible -- TRUST has nothing to do with it.

BTW: If "strong will" means not open to new ideas, not willing to try new things, thinking you already have the answers, and/or not willing to consult experts who know more than you; then you can expect to find yourself in a similar situation in the future. By doing things "your own way," you wound up with heartaches and stress you never imagined possible. Continuing with that path will bring more of the same, in one form or another.

Consider MB. For real.

Opt

Amen, Mr. E.
But they have to both be enthusiastic about it. That's why I've been trying to get them both on board with actual MB principles. Right now they seem to be cherry picking at best, and just acknowledging the concepts at worst. Knowing they are there and using them are two different things.
Moving without POJA would be disastrous. But staying without (real) POJA could also be disastrous.
opt

Hey Betty and Mr. Betty,
Markos has started a thread in the Recovery section (called "Book Club..." ) where they are all reading SAA and discussing it, chapter by chapter.

May I suggest you read the book together (they are currently on chapter one) and at least read the VERY insightful comments you will find from these very knowledgable posters.

The insights may be a way to get more out of the material.

Opt

Thanks for the glowing recommendation, opt!

I absolutely agree; following POJA is a necessity. Having balanced POJA discussions is very difficult post A, because of the imbalances the affair causes. A true POJA resolution requires equal partners, so Betty needs to set aside her guilt and advocate for the best decision.

Does the OM know the OC is his?

Is the OM guessing that the OC is his?

How did the OM find out you were pregnant?

Being your BH will not move you need to get a RO on the OM.

Though still best to get an RO and move. Tell your BH this is the price of an affair and recovering the marriage. You and the family must be protected with NC with the OM.

Thank you Opt. I agree with you and staying without POJA just as well could be disastrous. Although my H is still skeptical about signing up to this, he has started to read the book and I also asked him to follow markos thread...it's a bit difficult for me to explain the concepts when my partner is not in it 100% but yet willing to move forward. Thank you kindly for all your wonderful advice and support.

To answer your questions Road, yes OM does in fact know OC is his child, he's not guessing and denying his paternity is useless as OC is completely different from his oldest brothers, like night and day and he's the same image as OM. OM found out because I told him in the beginning when I first found out I was pregnant, I did not have anyone else to tell except him whom at the time I trusted (please keep in mind that I was not thinking obviously very clear, I was in the fog)...and from that point on it's when things started to go bad, he wanted me to have an abortion and from the moment he made that suggestion I realized he would not take any responsibility for anything...many things happen, he wanted to be a part of OC but not until he was ready, this created a lot of conflicts between us but yet he never left, until finally when I brought it to the wife's attention all hell broke for him...he became angry at me insulted me, then came back to apologize just as he's trying to do now...it's been a emotional roller-coaster dealing with this and just when I thought he was finally gone, he suddenly comes back because he wants to be a part of OC...my head hurts just to think back to all that happen...

This weekend I went to a retreat, and I ran into OM's wife and mother! I called my H, and told him I did not want to be there I felt hurt because of the situation we are going through with OM, but I did not want to approach them and disturb them, because it was not going to make a difference...completely the opposite, if I said something the W and mother would probably think I want to cause them problems because I might have feelings for this man, when in fact that is not the case, in the end I'm the one who's going to look like a fool...I'm done with that, I'm really done with the drama and sick of it. Someone suggested the restraining order and that's what I'm going to do first. I know I been told before to expose, that if I don't tell the W then I am at fault, but here is a man who whatever he says the W believes, I'm not putting myself in that position again and I don't think I'm doing the poor woman a favor but just hurting her, I leave that up to his conscience to deal with if he has any if not, someday it will catch up, but I'm not putting myself in that position again where I am blamed for bad mouthing this "man" because believe me in the end his family sees him as the victim and I'm the bad guy...It's an honest waste of my time and energy...I been through too much drama with this person and his family and I know for a fact he has spoken atrocities of me and has blamed me for everything, which is why I find it so ironic that he can't let go and move on...I honestly think he just wants to disturb my life and can care less about OC. OC has a wonderful life and I'm not willing to jeopardize it for no one, if he has some guilt at this point, it's his problem and he can deal with it, it's his problem not mine anymore and I really have no regard for his feelings. I just want him to leave us alone.

Every time the OM breaks NC you and your BH must tell the OMW. The OM must have consequences for breaking NC.

OM sends a text or email forward them to the OMW.

If that does not stop OM then get a restraining order.

Greatly encouraged to hear that your DH is reading SAA. The NEW edition contains an expanded section on exposure which I think will be very helpful to you both. See if you can get ahold of that in the next few weeks.

The thing is that exposure is not supposed to bring on more drama, it's to bring on less.

I hope you'll use this tool to help OM experience the consequences of his actions - the only thing that will stop him from further bad choices (like stalking you in the parking lot).

opt

Betty,
How has your DH reading SAA impacting your situation?
Have you given any more thought to moving?
Any further encounters with OM or his family?
opt

Hi Opt!!!

It has been very beneficial to both of us to read this forum as well as the DH readings and listening to the radio show. We have had some encounters with OM. He actually approached OC and told him he was his "daddy"! OC is three and half years old, he's very bright, highly vocal and well spoken for his age. We have two older boys and both have football practice, where the boys practice there is a playground, where all the kids play and I always took OC along to watch my boys practice and OC played in the playground with the other children. One day I turned around as usual to make sure OC was in the playground playing when I saw OM playing with OC in the playground. When I approached him I overheard him telling OC he was daddy...I asked him to leave and not to come back again, the next time I would call the police if he approached my child. I contacted my H to make him aware of the situation. We have not seen him since then, but our OC now is when I'm at the park and he doesn't want to leave he tells me he's waiting for his other dad! This absolutely breaks my heart!!! I hope OC forgets about this with time, but he is so bright I'm afraid he will remember this! It hurts me when OC asks me about his other "daddy"...this happen about a month ago more or less and it's nerve wrecking to think my OC will have this on his mind...my H and consulted with an attorney, we were told next time OM is around to call the police, and that way we can establish a restraining order against OM to prevent this from happening again. Our concern is OC, his emotional well being and neither one of us wants OC to have a memory of this...we can only go a day a time and wait, if he does remember later in life we will at some point let OC know the truth of his bio father.

Even though this happen my H is still not willing to move...he's not worried about OM's family they have never expressed any interest in OC, and we both feel he just does this not because he cares for the child but just to disturb me. We have grown closer together and are more united then ever in order to protect our family and keep our son's safe. We are both hoping OM will at some point just not appear anymore and eventually get tired of this. He is not splitting us apart and he's not going to be a part of OC in any way for OC's emotional well being and ours as a family as well.

It's been a challenge dealing with this, it's been for me an emotional roller coaster dealing with the consequences of my actions, because this is because of me and my wrongdoing. The A we are overcoming well, our relationship is great, we are planning to renew our vows in February of 2014 and are looking forward to raising our sons. If anyone has gone through a similar situation and has any advice for me with regards to OC and how to deal with OC's thoughts and comments about the "other daddy" as he calls it, I would greatly appreciate it...

Kind regards,
Betty

Time to move before the OM causes more damage.

You need to call DR H on how to handle what your OM told the OC.

Betty,

You can take this in light of my experience as an OC who spent some time with his biological family before being adopted out.

I think early memories are very powerful and not easily forgotten.

I always had a good opinion of my biological father, he was a respected doctor, and I would ask my adoptive Mother about him every so often. It could have something to do with my visiting BF with my biological mother. In any event your OC realizes something very much out of the ordinary happened. Was your OC around OM at other times.

Perhaps you should be more honest with OC rather than less.
The way to avoid blackmail is to let the truth be known.

God Bless
Gamma