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After deceiving my wife for 5 months and being discovered I went on to deceive her for another 5!
I think, no ! I know we are now on the road to recovery. We' ve had about 10 sessions with Steve since the first discovery, and I am pretty much over the other woman, women!
We are working to get our love back to something that we can say is great not just OK.
But one of the big stumbling blocks is, I haven't quite figured out what it was that got me so far if track after being married for 15 years and having a pretty good life with my wife and partner.
I have some theories, but think I will need some prompting to drag it out of me, so have at me please!
Taffy 1
Married 3 times
This time for 16 yrs to my last wife.
Married to my last wife, for 18 years
Hoping for many more years
Me: FWH 63 yrs
She:FBW 56 yrs (Catwhit)
Discovery March 2012, and again in August 2012.
No contact since then.
Finally out of the fog!!!!
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After deceiving my wife for 5 months and being discovered I went on to deceive her for another 5!
I think, no ! I know we are now on the road to recovery. We' ve had about 10 sessions with Steve since the first discovery, and I am pretty much over the other woman, women!
We are working to get our love back to something that we can say is great not just OK.
But one of the big stumbling blocks is, I haven't quite figured out what it was that got me so far if track after being married for 15 years and having a pretty good life with my wife and partner.
I have some theories, but think I will need some prompting to drag it out of me, so have at me please!
Taffy 1
Married 3 times
This time for 16 yrs to my last wife. Welcome to MB. Can you bring your wife here so we may help her? 10 sessions with Steve and you can't figure out why you have NO BOUNDARIES around women? Can't or won't? What just compensation have you given your BW?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Hello Taffy, There are no "theories" to look at, but to admit that you have had no boundaries around the opposite sex and that your non-existent moral judgement lead you to it. There are no theories, only the practise of promiscuous lifestyle. Have you made sure that this won't happen again? Are you familiar with extraordinary precautions? HERE. Read it very carefully and make up your own list and implement it fully.
Me, FWW: 43
Mr_Recon6mo, FWH: 44
DD20 and DS23
3 cats
Married 23 years, together 24
Divorcing
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But one of the big stumbling blocks is, I haven't quite figured out what it was that got me so far if track after being married for 15 years and having a pretty good life with my wife and partner.
I have some theories, but think I will need some prompting to drag it out of me, so have at me please! What got you off track is you have pisspoor boundaries around women. Real simple. NEXT! Welcome to Marriage Builders!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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But one of the big stumbling blocks is, I haven't quite figured out what it was that got me so far if track after being married for 15 years and having a pretty good life with my wife and partner.
I have some theories, but think I will need some prompting to drag it out of me, so have at me please! I'm going to give you a break and ASSUME you are NOT looking for some sort of diagnosis to explain why you enjoyed having some of your needs met by women other than the woman you love. I am going to ASSUME you are indeed searching for ways to permanently close that door which allowed you to take that first step to lie/cheat/betray. If my assumption is correct, then the way you avoid future disasters is to not take that first step. In order to do that, you must recognize the first step. Husbands who have had more than one "other woman", such as yourself, have poor boundaries. Like others have said. But, where is it that your first toe crosses over the boundary? That's what you need to know. Do you know what that first step is? The road to hell is usually started with one or two baby-steps. BEWARE the "innocent" baby steps. AKA flirting. Flirting (in your case) may be something as innocuous as paying another woman a personal compliment. Flirting my be sending another woman an admiring look. Any non-vital attention paid to any other woman is heretofore disallowed. You have forfeited your ability to have any private access to any woman. (other than your wife) Ever. This will deny you the temptation to have another woman admire you. Boundaries means you give yourself strict rules of conduct and you adhere to those rules as if your marriage depended on them. Because, it does.
Married 3 times
This time for 16 yrs to my last wife. You better pay attention. You need to know MB inside/out. This is NOT about understanding *what-ever* in your messed up childhood. This site is ALL about learning tools/behaviors that will build a hedge of protection around your marriage and make it safe for your wife to remain married to you. Navel-gazing is discouraged. Navel gazing will not protect your marriage or make your wife feel it is safe to stay with you. WELCOME TO MARRIAGE BUILDERS
Last edited by Pepperband; 12/10/12 10:19 AM.
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Married 3 times
This time for 16 yrs to my last wife. Were you married to your second wife when you started flirting with/dating your third wife? Had you even met wife #3 when you were married to wife #2?
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This is an easy one. You do whatever feels good in the moment and don't stop to think about how your friends, family, and wife would feel if they found out the truth about what you are doing.
If you don't want to go to divorce court and end up being an old, lonely, single man, you need to start making yourself care about how your wife feels.
I do not have opposite sex friendships other than relatives, in-laws, and women over 60 (and even with that you need to be careful), and once my divorce is final, I do not plan to have any opposite sex friendships unless it's with someone I'd like to end up dating.
BH (me), age 30. Plan D final 1/1/13
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Hey!  
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Hey! I did say that "even there you need to be careful"! Not knowing how old Taffy1 is, it's probably best if he talks to no other women, not even decagenarians. I'm 30, and age 60 is my personal rule.
BH (me), age 30. Plan D final 1/1/13
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Thanks for the response, I know how it went wrong and who's fault it was. I let someone flirt wi me and responded likewise. That was the start of it. What I'm still trying to work out is what kept me there. The other woman did not treat me as a lover normally would and looking back I can see that it would never have worked out between us.
Apart from the fact that she was 43 and I 60 when this started, there are so many other reasons it was insane.
My wife is already on here and has been for quite a while, I'm here now because I have to get moving and build a better marriage while I still have one.
She is, catwhit.
Thanks again
Married to my last wife, for 18 years
Hoping for many more years
Me: FWH 63 yrs
She:FBW 56 yrs (Catwhit)
Discovery March 2012, and again in August 2012.
No contact since then.
Finally out of the fog!!!!
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What I'm still trying to work out is what kept me there. Have you read Dr. Harley's plan for recovery from an affair? Since an affair automatically puts a marriage in a crisis situation, I suggest you focus on taking the steps necessary to recover from the affair first, and save answering the philosophical questions to later. The question is not why you had an affair or what kept you there. The question is: how are you going to make good and sure that it never happens again, ever, and how are you going to build a marriage that is far, far better than it ever was, for both of you, to make up to your wife for the pain she has been through?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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What I'm still trying to work out is what kept me there. The other woman did not treat me as a lover normally would and looking back I can see that it would never have worked out between us.
Apart from the fact that she was 43 and I 60 when this started, there are so many other reasons it was insane.
n What kept you there was you allowed her to meet your needs. That is how affairs begin. It is not a complicated thing. The way to avoid it is to not allow someone outside of your marriage to meet your needs.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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...What I'm still trying to work out is what kept me there. The other woman did not treat me as a lover normally would and looking back I can see that it would never have worked out between us. ...
Shouldn't the fact that you were maintaining an unsustainable & dishonorable deception vis-a-vis your wife have been a more paramount factor in your thinking, no matter how sweet the other woman was, no matter what age she was?
Well, there's part of your problem: You've been looking at everything from one point of view: A selfish one.
After my affair, I started making real progress in recovery when I finally got down to admitting to myself how selfish I'd been during the affair. That's the core of infidelity. Lots of wayward husbands spend lots of time beating around the bush afterwards, spinning their mental wheels but not getting anywhere much, because they can't bring themselves to confront just how goddamn selfish it all really was.
Once you can look yourself in the mirror & admit that you got more selfish than anyone whom you'd ever want to meet, then you can make some progress.
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Once you can look yourself in the mirror & admit that you got more selfish than anyone whom you'd ever want to meet, then you can make some progress. I agree with this 100%. Taffy1, you are not the first chronically unfaithful husband we've seen on MB who wasted time searching for a "What MADE ME do that?" answer in the rear-view mirror. Let's just shorten the search right now. Two things in your character that "MADE YOU" become a serial cheater. You are lazy.
You are selfish.
There. Really, that is the correct answer. The search is over. Now what? You make an attitude adjustment to change yourself. Instead of being lazy in your marriage, you DECIDE to become industrious and with great joy you learn all about Marriage Builders and you apply what you learn on an hourly basis. You unlearn the habit of being a lazy husband by assigning yourself a leadership role in an MB recovery. You decide your goal is to make your marriage better than you ever thought possible. You do the work. You do this not to avoid a divorce, but to achieve a goal. See the difference in attitude? Be joyful in this recovery process. Your marriage is a precious blessing that you must tend to carefully. This takes educating yourself with knowledge and understanding. In other words, you do what it take for as long as it takes. Selfishness gave you permission to do what you did. "I deserve to be happy." are the code words of every selfish act you made. Adultery is synonymous with cheating. Cheating is both LAZY and SELFISH. You get busy reading the MB book "Surviving An Affair" (SAA) and you use a marker to highlight sections that speak to you. You discuss what you have learned with your wife. Listen to her response. Then get started writing your list of BEHAVIOR CHANGES you are going to put in place as a means to protect your marriage from a repeat of this cheating.
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Here is a LINK TO A DISCUSSION about EP (extraordinary precautions). An excerpt:When discussing EPs, Dr. Harley addresses that the following areas need to change:
A) Blocking all communication with Affair Partners (AP�s)
B) Accounting for all of your time
C) Accounting for all money
D) Spending your leisure time with your wife.
EP�s are put into place to protect your spouse.
Protection = Care
EP�s are also designed to ELIMINATE the opportunity to have a secret second life.
Ok, so let�s talk about two different categories you need to create in your list of EP�s.
The first category is a list of one-time EPs that you will need to make sure you complete quickly.
The second category is a list of EPs that you will follow for a lifetime.
So let�s start with the first category items.
(what follows are SUGGESTIONS, remember this is going to be YOUR list)
A) Change cell phone number and give password & account access to your spouse.
B) Change email account.
C) Eliminate all social networking accounts (i.e., Face book, Classmates, My Space, etc.)
D) Take a polygraph
E) Make a copy of my vehicle keys and any other keys my spouse does not have and give to them (i.e., safe deposit boxes, business keys, storage cabinets/lockers, etc.)
F) List out passwords for all business and personal computer logins, and any other passwords my spouse does not have access to.
G) Give my spouse access to any banking/financial accounts, business and personal.
H) Install software that tracks all internet use, giving my spouse administrative access.
I) Install a webcam/security cameras for while at work that my spouse can access.
J) I will contact an attorney that will work on my spouse�s behalf and write a post-nuptial agreement.
K) Sell the house/purchase a new one.
L) Sell any vehicle AP was in and replace them.
Some of these things you may have already done. But these are one time things that you set up and they stay this way with little or no maintenance.
Include completed items on this list as well as items still in process on your list. Category #2 is a little more along the lines of EPs that you need to maintain on a continuous, consistent basis.
A) I will protect my spouse and their feelings above all else.
B) I will not participate in any one-on-one meetings with anyone of the opposite sex.
C) I will not discuss my personal marriage issues with anyone of the opposite sex.
D) I will not attend clubs, strip joints, or any such establishment
E) I agree to use POJA as a basis for all decisions.
F) I will be open and honest with my spouse at all times about the past and present.
G) I will provide my spouse a daily schedule of all appointments and contact information.
H) If I need to make an adjustment to my schedule, I will notify my spouse of the change immediately.
I) I will make my spouse�s phone calls my highest priority by answering them or returning them immediately.
J) I will avoid all chat rooms, porn, member sites, etc.
K) I will trade phones with my spouse at any time they request, NO questions asked.
L) I will leave my phone accessible to my spouse at night/or anytime I�m home.
M) I will commit to at least 15 hours of undivided attention with my spouse to meet each other�s ENs every week (time working together does not count toward those 15 hours).
N) If AP finds a way to make contact, I will immediately end the contact and notify my spouse about it immediately after.
O) I will install a keylogger, GPS, or any other tracking system my spouse may request.
P) Anytime I have the thought, �I don�t want my spouse to know about��.�, I will call my spouse immediately and tell them my thoughts.
Q) Anything else my spouse wants as a boundary.
Use this as a starting point for working further on your EPs. Add and change items that suit your situation.
Whatever you do, put your list together and post it on your own thread and then allow for some feedback from those that have been through this exercise. We want you to perfect your list before offering it to your spouse. There is so very little that a wayward can truly offer as compensation for the huge amount of damage caused by such a selfish act as adultery that we want to make sure this is done well. The continuation of your marriage is riding on these actions!
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The bottom line is that you went off track
the
moment
you choose to spend time alone
with
someone of the opposite gender.
Coffee, walk, talk, into a room with no one else but them......you cross line after line after line til you are having intercourse with someone
who is not your wife.
Don't allow yourself to be alone with someone of the opposite gender other than you wife.
Ever for any reason.
Extraordinary precautions.
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Thanks all, I think I worded my opening post poorly. Cath, Steve and I have discussed boundaries, and I understand as someone rightly put it, I had "piss poor" boundaries. That's how I got were I did, I have always flirted but never before acted on it, it was always what flirting is, attention without intent.
But I crossed that boundary a year ago, and do understand " what extraordinary precautions means. I believe it's true and have set up rules for this.
What I should have asked in my first post was for help trying to understand what kept me going back, after discovery and when I knew then that it would never work out with the OW.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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Markos,
Thanks, I have read nearly all of Dr Harley's books together with my wife. I have a few theories about why I kept going back, and the OW filling emotional needs is definitely one of them. I'm mentally working thought the reasons I think kept me going back, bot my wife is impatient that I haven't spent the time to do a complete analysis yet.
I do agree its more important to work on "the now" and not ponder the past, but I need to resolve this itch with my wife so she can move forward. She was also quite disappointed that I didn't turn to the help of the forum sooner. She uses it as avoiding the subject.
But I need to respect what she needs not rest on the fact that I'm back and staying and feeling great about her nowadays.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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Pepperband,
Thanks, Cat and I are quite far down the road, she is looking over my shoulder as I type this (POJA). We both agree that category 1 transparency, we accomplished back in September.
Category 2, long term: we have a plan and it includes almost everything on that list, the ones that are not are ones Cat feels she doesn't need at this time, but if ever she does, I am ready to put them in place.
For all above, I know it was my fault, I know I have hurt her more than I could ever imagine and I know it's up to me to make it right.
I understand what I need to do ( I think.) The navel gazing, rear view mirror approach is something that Cat needs me to do. She wants to know what were the emotional needs that were met by the OW, so I understand my vulnerabilities, and so she can make sure she fulfills that EN.
We know about the 15/20 hours of UA time, but have been bad about logging it, so we were not sure how we were doing on this, but we now have a plan to schedule the time, that way we can check back to see if we fulfilled our commitment.
One that was missing from the list that we added is that Cat will travel with me whenever it's likely I will be away on business for more than 2-3 nights. The last time was to Alaska, at -40f she may consider re--thinking that one LOL
Married to my last wife, for 18 years
Hoping for many more years
Me: FWH 63 yrs
She:FBW 56 yrs (Catwhit)
Discovery March 2012, and again in August 2012.
No contact since then.
Finally out of the fog!!!!
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