Thanks, Driven2--you give the rest of us hope, and also make me feel like the money spent on coaching will be well spent.

Interesting. Two segments of today's radio show focused on a caller with a situation remarkably similar to mine. . .

Could you post links to them driven

Here's the link:
How to handle friends and family who conspired with WS to enable the A and/or hurt the BS

Three Segments...

I couldn't get it to work.

Hopefully these will work.
Radio clip of Driven's Call
Segment #2
Segment #3

It�s been a few months since I�ve posted so I thought I should post an update for those who have followed my story. I still read the forums almost daily but honestly haven�t had much motivation to post.

The short version is that the relationship between my wife and me made a huge leap forward at the end of July when we started working with Steve Harley at the coaching center. But the momentum and progress stopped at the end of August when we went on a family vacation together. After that she refused to continue counseling by phone.

By September I was really hopeful she would be willing to put in place some of the things Dr. H & MB followers have found are necessary to recover the marriage and fall in love again. I didn�t expect her to be 100% �in� when it came to me or our marriage, but did expect her to be committed to the process and the goal of falling in love (together) and staying in love. Spending 20-25 hours a week together meeting each other�s EN�s was at the top of my list.

So I spent a lot of time negotiating and planning EA time together. The scheduled EA exercise was mostly a flop. She was highly reluctant to even talk about it and even less enthusiastic about doing it. The only two activities that worked out well were a standing Friday night date, and an attempt to go away together every other Saturday night (out of town date). We did spend a little more time together at night but the only thing she was willing to do (remains true) is watch TV shows, which in my book doesn�t count.

Generally, WW has been unwilling and uninterested in anything that feels like an organized plan to her. Reading books, scheduled time together, MB coaching, recovery exercises (listing LB�s etc.) all make her uncomfortable and require effort on her part, so she doesn�t want to do them. She wants us to just �live life� and not talk about any of marriage stuff anymore. The mere mention of MB terminology (lovebusters, emotional needs etc�) causes her to scoff and roll her eyes.

All the while I have been doing my best to show her extraordinary care. I�ve been kind, I�ve been patient & loving. I pay her heartfelt compliments and words of admiration. I�ve been doing my best to meet her emotional needs. Some of the specific things she listed along with her top EN (financial security) have been difficult to impossible to accomplish because she still clings to her independent behaviors related to her business, income & banking etc�

There has been a little progress on reducing the list of things she does that are huge lovebusters for me. For example, she�s cut way down on communicating the details of our most personal, private matters to her friends and family. And recently she stopped playing Words-With-Friends and chatting with a (platonic) male friend on her phone. But in every case she shows resentment that I asked her to stop doing something that was hurtful to me. She believes that she is now unable to have meaningful relationships with others now that she feels so restricted in her ability to tell them every intimate detail of our private marriage and family business.

Anyone who has followed my thread has seen that conflicts over friends and family members have been a huge obstacle in our recovery. The short version is that WW spent a full year and a half denigrating her husband and marriage to everyone who was important in her life. Substantial, likely permanent damage was done. In mid Sept I was a caller on the radio show in an attempt to get help from Dr. H. He offered to correspond with her & talk to her about it but she wasn�t willing.

To summarize the current situation regarding her friends and family� WW can�t/won�t/refuses to lift a finger to repair the damage she caused to these people�s perception of me or our marriage. Her reasoning is �hey, it was all true for me at the time� and �they secretly didn�t like you before I slandered you, so nothing I told them makes any difference.� She has a very unrealistic expectation that I should love her friends and family unconditionally no matter what their behavior (past and present). She is extraordinarily resentful and angry that I am not enthusiastic, for example, about having her niece (and niece�s new sex offender husband we�ve never met) for Christmas dinner � in spite of the bitter, hateful behavior this niece has shown towards me in recent months. In other words, she expects me to suffer so that she can be happy at my expense.

The worst part of this friends and family issue is that she now clings to this as THE reason why she�s not willing or able to commit herself to doing what it takes to rebuild our marriage and fall in love again. No matter what I say to refute it, she continues to say and believe things like �I�m never going to see my family and friends again� and �you hate my family.� She doesn�t see that the solution to the problem is in her hands. As Joyce said on the show, they are her family so they are always going to side with her. Nothing I say to them is going to change their feelings as long as she continues to convey to them that she is unhappy with me and/or the marriage. The irony is that if she would only just tell them the positive things (that are all true) they would again side with her and (likely) begin being supportive and friendly again.

In general, anything that compels her to stop doing something that is hurtful to me or to our marriage feels like punishment to her. She feels like I am purposely punishing her for the affair. We recently had a conversation about this and I tried very hard to explain that EP�s are all about protection, not punishment. I�m honestly not trying to punish her or her friends and family for anything. But I�m not willing to let the proverbial pit bull play with my children again either.

Another huge issue for me is her seemingly inexplicable unwillingness to meet two of my top 5 EN�s (affection and admiration). I should say that SF is also in my top 5 and things have been much, much better in that area of our lives on the order of 1X per week. What�s bizarre to me is that she won�t initiate ANY affection or admiration at all. Ever. She will reluctantly hold my hand if I take hers. If I try to hug her it is met with icy unresponsiveness. It really hurts when she walks into the room and hugs each of my two girls while completely ignoring me. When it comes to compliments, kind words, admiration from her � I get nothing. It�s not that I�m needy or desperate (God knows I�ve survived without it this long). I receive compliments and praise from many other people in my life. It�s just truly bizarre and hurtful to never get a compliment from your spouse. The issues with these two EN�s go back to the beginning of our marriage as well. I mean really, how hard is it to say �you look really nice tonight� or �I like that shirt� or �the steaks you cooked were really delicious?� Unless she takes some initiative to start doing these things (whether she initially feels like doing them or not), I�m not sure how these problems will ever be resolved without expert help.

It�s still the case that we do much better together when we are away from home. So much so, in fact that I think we are both pretty much on the same page that it would be beneficial for us to sell our house and find a different one. The house is a trigger; a reminder of bad times. She is generally enthusiastic about our weekend overnight dates. All of them have been really fun and have brought us much closer together � until we pull back up in the driveway.

I�ve been really, really frustrated by the stagnation and the list of unresolved issues she�s not willing to address. And I�ve tried really hard to share these frustrations with her without being disrespectful, angry or making demands.

I�ve also tried hard to remind her of the goal: A great marriage where we are both really in love and put each other first. I�ve tried writing long, beautiful letters to keep this goal fresh in our minds. But they are usually met with no response.

So I�m in limbo. In many ways we�re back to where we were prior to her affair. In some ways things are better. What bothers me most is her unwillingness to demonstrate CARE for me.

On the other hand, if I compare where we are now with where we were a year ago, things are MUCH better. When I talk with Steve Harley, as I do occasionally, he tends to remind me of the progress and to be thankful for that. He says I�m way ahead of her in terms of what I�ve learned and what I�m willing to do to change.

To sum it up. I�m still really unhappy. And I hate that such a large part of my overall happiness in life is tied to her and what she is or isn�t willing to do. But I guess that�s what happens when your EN�s aren�t being met. I haven�t decided what to do. I still have a little energy left, but it�s running out. My love for her is fading. I want a happy marriage with her very much, but I�m not willing to be a doormat or to suffer so that she can be selfish. The happiness, protection and well-being of my children is paramount. I remain confident that no matter what she ultimately chooses to do to me or our family, I will be able to love and protect them and that we will be OK.

Your thoughts and prayers are appreciated. I follow many of your stories and wish you all the success in the world as you work to rebuild your marriage.

Driven

You need to move. If you end up getting divorced, the house will probably have to get sold anyway.

Your Love Bank sounds dangerously low, and I don't hear that it's getting replenished. Is she aware of what the consequences of divorce will be for her?

It sounds to me like she is getting her needs met, so she doesn't feel there is much of a problem. Her only complaint is that she can't run her mouth off to random family and friends.

I am concerned that your L$ is about to run dry and then YOU'LL be the one planning a divorce.

I'm in your exact same shoes right now (very little interest left in my wife or a marriage with her). I believe I'd fall in love with her again if she chose to start meeting a few of my ENs regularly, and if she stopped engaging in LBs, but that's not something either of us can make ahppen.

Oh dear. Not good news.


Empathy is required to become a loving spouse.


Lack of empathy.


POJA is the cornerstone to a mutually happy marriage. The concept that the marriage should be as satisfying for you as it is for her is beyond your wife. The FIRST question of POJA is, "How would you feel about it if I did this?". Your wife does not CARE what your feelings are. She wants you to adjust your feelings so that she can do whatever she wants.


You hit the nail on the head.

I cannot explain your wife's position. But, I can say that unless she demonstrates a willingness to CARE for you and to enthusiastically meet your intimate needs ... she may not be the best woman with whom to plan your future.

Sorry. This is so sad. For a WW to have a husband working SO DAMN HARD to recover .... and she is lazy/selfish/uninterested .... it is too sad.

Some women do not achieve true emotional maturity until later in life. And, only after making mistake after mistake. I hope your wife is not one of those women.

Driven, your situation reminds me very much of another such situation over on the Marriage Builders private forum that is being coached by Dr. Harley. In that situation, the wife refuses to meet her husbands needs. She is basically along for the free ride. She is not there to contribute to the marriage, only there to reap the benefits at his expense. Here is what Dr. Harley told that husband:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2509639#Post2509639

The only thought that comes to mind after reading your post is to tell you to file for divorce and make plans to move on. Your wife is outright refusing to engage in your marriage. She refuses to meet your needs, refuses to follow the POJA, which makes it impossible to ever have a marriage with her. You don't have a marriage. What is there? Nothing. She is only along for the free ride.

If she was a few months away from her affair, I could understand it, but this is almost 2 years after the fact. Nothing has changed in the months since you have been here. She is still as foggy and hostile and distanced as she was when you first arrived. I was very surprised THEN and even more convinced now that you need to throw in the towel before she destroys you emotionally.

I wish I could be more hopeful, but when you have tried everything and your spouse refuses to do anything, there is nothing more to do.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by filing for divorce. There is nothing in this marriage for you. If you filed for divorce and separated, you could go into Plan B until the divorce is final. If she demonstrably commits to the marriage during that time, you can drop the divorce. If she doesn't, then you will be divorced, which will be a dramatic improvement over the status quo. It will be a win/win.

You are such a great guy, driven. There are many women out there who would love and care for you. On the other hand, life won't be as kind to a 40-something woman. Sure, she can hook up with OM-types, but she won't fare as well with a decent guy. You don't have to settle for a marriage of neglect and abuse. Please stop doing that.

That's a real shame, Driven, and I'm sorry to hear that she's still chosing to break up the family. Your children will model their own relationships based on what they see at home, so you are wise to be thinking of them as you consider whether or not to stay married to this woman. She does not seem to be showing the same concern, and they need at least one responsible parent in their lives.

I'd file for a divorce before she drags you and the kids down with her.

x 2

Her flair for the dramatic and the pity parties are and

Hi Driven, I hope you can manage to eek out one last nice Christmas before you lower the boom on her. Has there been any change at all since your last post? I presume you are just waiting until after the holidays to take the next steps.

I am happy to think that you are finally getting out of this nightmare of a marriage. There is only so much a person can endure. I want to also assure you that you can have a happy future with someone else. We have had many other men on this forum who are now happily and blissfully remarried to women who ADORE them. A couple that come to mind are 14thgipper and Steph525. They had marriages from hell like yours and now they have marriages from HEAVEN with other women. I hope that can be your future too.

Totally agree Driven.

Since your W refuses to engage in your M, you must get out and protect yourself.

Too bad she doesn't post here so we could help her learn MB to save your M. I guess it's her loss and she will totally regret it when you're gone.

I would Plan B her for life.

And another poster whom has a wonderful M after his D is optimism. He found an awesome woman who lives a MB marriage with him.

There is someone out there who you deserve, friend.

X2 I totally agree with Mel's & Brain's posts.

It's really sad when a WS doesn't engage in a marriage when they have a BS willing to work towards creating a mutually satisfying romantic marriage. You are an amazing man and you will meet someone who deserves you. With your MB knowledge you will go on to have a happy successful relationship in the future.

You can be proud knowing you did everything to save your marriage and family. Your WW will one day realise what she has lost.

D2, I have withheld posting on this thread because I was cognizant of the fact that you were getting superb support from others, and still are.

I am compelled now to join in with probably not very encouraging thoughts.

Back in January '11 a poster named Stretch123 began this thread. His story and your is so eerily aligned that I must make mention.

Like your WW, his started a "doomed" EA with a ridiculously unlikely, inappropriate potential paramour, just around her fortieth birthday. Her choice was a bar musician (guitarist?) for whom she would gather up her group of enabling cronies who would provide "cover" (sound familiar) for her attendance at his performances. The extent of the physicality was a "make out" session in a car, I believe. (D. H. Lawrence would NOT have found this a great topic for a steamy novel.)

Eventually the AP rejected her as your WW's lad rejected Mrs D2. There was no further contact; she had no hope of renewing same; S123 followed the MB Plan rigorously. He followed it until his disgust for her led him to divorce her. (And I was m aybe loudest among the chorus telling him to refrain, for my own reasons.)

Mrs S123 refused to re-engage. She re-wrote the history of their marriage to color everything S123 had ever done as evil and/or selfish. She refused to engage in meaningful UA; she demeaned and insulted his every effort to re-ignite a marital spark. (Enough! You can read his thread; it should sound distressingly familiar.)

She had effectively decided that being a 40-yo wife and mother, was no longer acceptable to her. It was not S123 she was rejecting, it was her whole life.

Think on this, my friend. Bounce every one of you WW's actions against this template. If WW cannot see that her best future is with you and your family, then it may be best for that family that she, like Mrs S123, be released to search for it elsewhere. She won't find it, but what years it may take for her to realize that will not be years wasted off your life, and that of your children.