I'd follow your lawyer's advice. Best to be prepared, wayward minds are irrational and can change to suit their needs. Some waywards throw in token "nice gestures" to throw you of guard, better to be prepared.

I don't believe he is going to try anything. He is the coward type. And he's got enough problems already. I would only expect that he's going to shower them with presents and promises.

He stopped replying to my emails ( sent through my IM) and said to my daughter that he needs to speak with me directly and refuses to communicate through IM.
I asked him three times already to send me birth certificates and some Spanish documents, that I need in here asap.
Drives me crazy he is making everything more difficult that it already is.
I am thinking to send him the details of my solicitors visit, such as I am under no obligation to stay in touch with him, neither my daughters. Maybe from a legal point of view it will be easier for him to digest that I don't want to be his friend!!!!

Czarne

For your health you really need to go into dark plan B. he knows he is getting to you and he won't stop until you put a stop to it by going into a real plan B.

Please explain to the girls that you do not want them to pass on any messages to you from your WH, you can explain it by saying that you find it upsetting hearing from him while he is with OW.This step is essential for you in order to stay in plan B.

Until you go into plan B you won't make any progress with regards to recovery and you will be stuck in this loop of pain over and over again. How long can you cope like this?

He won't change because he has no reason too, he is getting everything that he wants right now.

NB24, I genuinely thought I am in plan B.
I don't contact him directly, cut all conversations with my daughter when he tries to pass info, don't email him ( only through IM).
What do you mean that he is getting everything? I don't understand. I think he is actually mad at me and thinks he is the one who suffers most in here?

Also my IM called me and told me he just sent an email, two pages A4, all in Spanish, so my IM cannot understand, trying to force me to read it!
How creative. I won't read it of course.
My IM asked to rewrite a shorter version in English only.

Czarne

I think you are amazing in the way you managed to get away from the bad situation in Spain and having the courage to restart your life in the UK.

I think you need to go dark plan B. this means total blackout from your end. no responses, no asking him for anything even through IM. No hearing any information about him from the girls. Total blackout.


Take one week to sort out the loose ends like the paperwork etc but then go totally dark on him.

He is playing games, he was used to cake eating a lot when you were in Spain, he had 2 women who met his needs every day. Now you are gone he is left with just one cake and is acting out. Many Waywards on here that had the plan B treatment have acted like your WH. The difference is that you are reacting to it.

The girls might be passing on information inadvertently to him about you, do you listen into the conversation he has with the kids? I would reccomend supervised phone calls for a few days, preferably getting a trusted friend to supervise as you need to stay totally away from anything he says.

I will see if I can get a MB member more experienced at plan B to help.

You are doing great but there are some cracks in your plan and he is taking advantage and creeping though.

How is the housing situation going? I think it will be good for you and the girls to be finally settled in your own home so you can get your mind off all of his B/S and concentrate on settling back in London.

Ps google translate should sort out the letter

czarne. You should be able to get certified copies of the birth certificates by contacting the issuing authorities. Many people lose these documents and need to get copies...there are ways to get them.

Find other ways to get what you need without asking WH. By asking WH, you are giving him control.

Take his control away.

Why is your IM passing along info about your WH nonsensical actions? In a true Plan B, you would not even know that WH had done this. Who is your IM?

Have you and your IM read this:Intermediary School

Your IM needs to be a spam filter.
You only get the filtered jnformation.

In this case, if the wh sent a letter in Spanish the IM would respond to wh and state: "please write this letter in English. I am unable to read it and am deleting it"
And the IM would not tell you about it.

I had a major setback on Friday, spoke with him on the phone.
Feel awful not sticking to the plan B, but we clarified several misunderstandings.
Of course rather than being strong and diplomatic, I broke down in tears and shouted at him to move back to London, where the girls are and we all miss him and need him here.
He said that he is extremely sorry for the situation, that he will do his best to move to London asap and find a place close to where we live so that he can be a father that he is supposed to be.
Of course he will continue with the OW ( by correspondence???)
He has absolutely no money, I canceled the car insurance, so he cannot use it, therefore she drives him back and forth to his part time job. Pathetic!
I am back in plan B, I thought that this phone call will put me in an emotional state, but I feel ok.

You feel okay because you got contact with him.
Absence makes the heart grow fond.
You both got your fix of each other.

Breaking plan b does not help your marriage.
Actually I think you should email the Radio Show and ask if Dr Harley thinks he should even be allowed to call his daughters. You said you have legal full custody. In my case Dr Harley encouraged me to shield the kids from their mothers uncaring behavior.
Here is his advice to me. It is specifically for me but you should get his advice on your specific situation:

Email 1: (before divorce)

In your case, I would
consult an attorney to be sure that if you are divorced, your wife would not
have joint custody or even visitation rights as long as she is in a
relationship with a murderer, putting your children's safety at risk. �If
joint custody is a real possibility, I would stay in plan A indefinitely,
even after the divorce, until your children can legally decide for
themselves where they want to stay (usually at about 12-13 years old). �If
you are certain that you would have sole custody with only supervised
visitation for her, I'd suggest plan B.

If you will be sharing custody, over time, you may be able to win her back
in spite of her emotional disorder. �She is in love with a man who agrees
with everything she says and does. �In marriage, that can't happen.
Conflict is inevitable. �But those with emotional disorders usually can't
follow the POJA, and the expect to be catered to when they take a position
on any issue. �Ultimately, most of these people end up divorced because they
can't form a mutually caring partnership for very long. �The issue is not
whether you should follow the POJA -- it's whether she can do it. �I doubt
that she can. �But for the sake of your children, if she leaves the other
man, you may have to cater to her demands.

Email 2 (after divorce)


I understand how you want your children to have a reasonably friendly relationship with their mother. �But under the circumstances, I�d suggest that instead, you create a wall of protection around your children as long as possible because of your wife�s thoroughly uncaring behavior toward them. �Let them know the full truth about her lack of care for them because of her love for another man. �Don�t embellish the story, just give them the facts. �Sooner or later she will probably try to restore her relationship with them through you, perhaps in the hope that she would receive some kind of financial support from you or the state if she were to have partial custody. �But I would let them know that not every mother loves or knows how to care for her children. �Sadly, their mother is probably one of these people. �Plan B is probably the best way to create that wall of protection.

How are you doing?

How are things cz?

I always get nervous when a BS is in Plan B and the holidays are around and they disappear from the boards.

Are you still in Plan B?

Happy New Year to all of you, Had you all in my mind over Holidays and New Year.

So much had happened that I don't even know where to start.
As suspected, my plan B was on hold and is on hold until WH leaves this Sunday.
I managed to avoid him for the first few days, but broke when he walked for two hours in the rain to see the girls on the 1st of Jan, when there was no public transport.
And so my sister let him into her flat and I was there ( she asked me first and I had no heart to keep him out in the rain) and I did not want the girls to stay outside with him too.

Then somehow we ended up talking about our situation, how we got there etc,
He was defensive as usual, said that the only thing he did was to fall in love with another woman, to which I responded that "falling in love with her" caused an avalanche of consequences that we all have to deal with right now.

He came with very litte money, I let the girls sleep with him in his friend's gym ( had a bed, heating, showers etc) and the girls were so excited.

But of course slowly he started demanding things he got used to....
First asked me to bring the food with me when the girls were staying with him, then he needed some money for the food for the gilrs ( part of which he spent on his transport, which I found sick)

I was so stupid not to put boundries in place and of course I was like a take away deliver guy, going with bags of food from A to B in London, which completely messed up my days up( time and money wise).

Yesterday I was leaving the house with kids to take them to see WH and he called me when we were already at the door asking me to prepare pj so that he can keep them overnight.
I said ok, but when I got there at 1pm, he said he needs me to come back at 4pm to stay with the girls for two hours while he goes out with a friend..
I thought he was joking, but no, he needed a free nanny!

Today he called me to demand that I bring food for the girls, because he again "HAS NO MONEY"

I lost it over the phone and told him that if he cannot feed his children I am coming to the gym and will take them back home, I will not be travelling across London with the food.

If he had guts to come here for two weeks, then he should have brought some money with him at least for food.
He said that he does not recognise me, I am so selfish and as always think only about myslef.

I thought I was going to collapse!

So there I go again, stupid wife accomodating selfish husbands needs as usual.
This time I put my foot down but felt unconfortable.
I called my D10 on her mobile to see if they had eaten, she told me that daddy saved some money to get to the airport on Sunday, but now spent this on their food.
Poor man, will need to walk to the airport on Sunday...

Ok, I forgot to add the NEWS.
He went to his old gym and asked for a job and got it straight away.
So he will be coming over to live in London within the next three months.

I am happy for the girls as they will have him around and won't miss him that badly, but I cannot stand this guy anymore.
I mean there is sentiment, but I don't even like him anylonger.
He ennoys me so much.


He finally admitted that I did the right thing to move away from Spain with the girls.
The ex parner of his lover has apparently some mental anger related issues, so WH now can see that the environment would not have been suitable to our children ( can you believe it?????)

He does not seem to see however that he is unable to take care of himself financially, therefore there is no way he could care for our girls.
I told him that I do not question his love for them, but love is not enough.
I love my girls and care for them , he just loves them...

I am going to pick them up tomorrow as they are staying with him overnight, this is their last night together, need to get ready for the drama tomorrow.
Will try to turn it around and tell the girls that the sooner daddy leaves, the sooner he can sort the mess in Spain out, the sooner he comes back to London.

Another bit, two days ago my D10 called me crying and asked me to come and pick her up as she did not want to stay with daddy.
I asked what was wrong and she said that she read OW email to WH saying that she loved him, wanted to kiss and hug and go to bed with him.
I went nuts and got there in half an hour to take D10 and her sis home.
I spoke with WH and told him that he can do whatever he wants but NOT with the girls around.
My D10 not only read the email but also responded from WH account and wrote some nasty stuff.
And so he got upset with her, rather than himself ( pretty standard with him, blaming everybody for his own mistakes).

At the end he apologized to her, and D10 decided that she wanted to stay with him.

Dang cz, I was hoping I was wrong about you being absent from the boards for a different reason. I see your have the Grand Canyon of Plan B breaks.

Do you see the damage that it Has done to not only you, but your DDs also?

Are you done being his free chef and Nanny and taxi?

So what is your plan to get back into a dark Plan B?

Hi BHurts,
I know I messed up, but to be honest my girls are over the moon spending time with him, I haven't seen them so happy in the last two months. I am happy for them too.

And I feel ok. I can see him and not suffer, that actually worries me, the speed of my feelings going cold.
Is this normal?
I mean, two months ago I was desperate to give him another chance and move back to London with me, now I don't care.

No, I actually care, I would like him to stay in Spain with "the love of his life" and leave me alone. Just call the girls once a day and visit twice a year. Thats it.
I want him out of my life.

As soon as he is back in Spain, I will go super dark again. He gets on my nerves so much, that no talking/no seeing him gives me peace ( even though I can see him and talk to him and not cry and feel down)

If he moves back here I will make sure I have strong boundaries in place, strict visiting days and hours, no family diners on Sundays and no support from me.
He is a big boy, he needs to find his own way. Grow up, man up and deal with the S**T he is drowning in...(no money, no family, no job, no flat, no friends... just looooove....)

But czarne you were never dark to begin with. You had an IM but your IM would pass on to you all the crap that WH was up to. Can you get an IM who is not emotionally invested and can filter out the crap?

Can you get a legal custody arrangement? This will eliminate WH being able to pull guilt trips with you about visitations and will give your girls a more stable environment.

Your WH is very manipulative and knows exactly how to get to you...and he is going to do everything he can to keep his free taxi, nanny, and chef.
You need a strong IM. You need an IM who can be the great wall of china.